'The Good Old Days' entry level jumping

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avthechav

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I know a few people who ride at a similar level to me and who talk about how they started at newcomers, novice etc before the days of British novice and intro and I just get a bit confused. I know that British eventing has changed beyond all belief and a novice course now bears little relation to a novice course then, but was a novice and a newcomers the same dimensions 'back then'?

After a lot of lessons and time riding I can just about manage a 1.10 course in training if I'm having a particular good day but am defo not able to go out and compete at that height so what did people like me do? I get the impression that there are more people now jumping under 1.10 than over so did these people just not compete before?

...answers on a post card?
 
Yep everything started at Newcomers height (as it is now). Poles were probably a bit heavier and you didn't have a prevalence of water trays etc. To be fair unafilliated opens tended to be about 3'6" so it wasn't a massive step if you were doing well unafilliated. Pony classes started at newcomers as well.
 
I see, so you would basically stick At unaffiliated until ready to make move to affiliated, rather than having an affiliated version of pretty much everything unaffilated nowadays?
 
In the old days unaffiliated went up to 3'9 (or more) and they were well supported, you also had local shows which don't seem to exist anymore. You could go jumping nearly every weekend at that height and have good competition and it wasn't frowned upon that your were jumping unaffiliated, you weren't seen as pot hunting as it was so competitive.

Nowadays you get the odd place that will do a 1.05 open - but you would be lucky to have 4 people in it - where is the fun in that?
 
My Mother terrifies me with stories of her pony 13.2 (who she jumped under rules) jumping five foot fences. Madness!

I think there was a lot more unaffiliated stuff at a decent level even when I was a kid (I'm 29 now). Now if I go out unaffiliated I'm doing well to find anything over a meter which has more than two people in it. I'm sure as a kid that wasn't the case?

Ha, as I posted dd said the exact same thing so clearly not my imagination then!! :p
 
Yes I guess you are right, when I was younger pretty much everyone did pony club, which meant weekly PC comps of some description every weekend up to 3ft 6 and sometimes more, and the training and support that goes along with that, whereas I know a lot of people competing now who have never pony clubbed. Also I agree re the lack of local shows, I guess no longer financially viable?
 
Back in the day pony jumping was more 12 2 12 years and under, 13 2 14yrs and under and 14 2 16yrs and under. Novice BE was 3 ft 6 as was newcomers. I wonder if the lower heights have been introduced to get more people joining BS and BE or am I being cynical.
 
I was just about to post this! :) What were the money limits to jump out of newcomers/fox? What happened after Fox? Some of the old photos of the HOYS classes look huge!! Especially the pony classes!
 
This photo is from the late 70's and is the unaffiliated Open SJ at a local show. We just seemed to start jumping at about 1m, sadly that's about my upper limit now:

MeLaddie.jpg
 
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I do think it is self fulfilling. We all jumped a meter as standard as a starting point but because now people want to tell you that is big it makes you think it is. If the courses hadn't shrunk we would all still be doing it I think.
 
I remember doing about 2'9'' on my 12,2 - mid 80's, when I was only about 7 or 8. I remember the poles being heavy, hexagonal wooden things as opposed to plastic and round now!

Everything is so safety conscious now, so never see the likes of that again.
 
I actually think there has been a seismic shift in the horse owning population. I started riding 30 years ago and have seen a substantial shift.

1) More first time horse owners particularly adults who are able to afford their much longed for horse.
2) Rise of DIY livery making horse ownership viable for above.
3) Rise in disposable income

with this comes more people who enter the horse world and thus cash and why would you not want to take this money as an organisation?
 
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I remember doing a XC on my 12.2 pony and 1 jump was a 5 bar field gate, no way would you get that now ha ha, my wee pony flew over it no probs ;-)
 
I am another who went straight into BS Newcomers in ponies at 1m and would agree that the demise of the local show in a field with large trophies to be won has done for competitive unaffiliated at fair heights. I do think that BS at lower levels is no bad thing however as course building at the unaffiliated shows of my childhood was often something to behold.
 
LEC said:
I actually think there has been a seismic shift in the horse owning population. I started riding 30 years ago and have seen a substantial shift.

1) More first time horse owners particularly adults who are able to afford their much longed for horse.
2) Rise of DIY livery making horse ownership viable for above.
3) Rise in disposable income

with this comes more people who enter the horse world and thus cash and why would you not want to take this money as an organisation?
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This, more or less. It used to be very unusual for adults to start riding and any kid who had a pony was either well supported or not really in a position to compete.

Also, there was a lot of bad riding, whether people remember it or not! It wasn't like everyone was so fantastic, never had training problems and rode like centaurs. I do think people worried less about the "how" and more about just getting on with it, but then (see above) there was less concern for safety and a rather more "agricultural" attitude towards horses in general.
 
slumdog said:
I was just about to post this! :) What were the money limits to jump out of newcomers/fox? What happened after Fox? Some of the old photos of the HOYS classes look huge!! Especially the pony classes!
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In the late 70's, early 80's if I remember correctly newcomers limit was £20 and foxhunter was £75. Prize money for a win in newcomers was averaging £5 and foxhunter was £8. I remember getting £50 for winning the foxhunter regional final (you only got one shot at qualifying for HOYS then) and it seemed like a fortune! There were a few Grade C classes which had second rounds and national finals for different winnings within Grade eg Typesetters and Maxicrop which catered for horses out of newcomers or foxhunter but still in Grade C. After foxhunter you tended to jump Grade C' s or B and C' s or there was the odd small open. Basically if your horse won too much but didn't have the scope to jump the bigger classes you were quite limited. The limit for Grade A was about £750 -800 and the went up to £1000.

As others have said the unaffiliated shows tended to have higher classes than generally seen now and people tended to compete unaffiliated before taking the step up to affiliated shows. All very different to today!
 
TarrSteps said:
Also, there was a lot of bad riding, whether people remember it or not! It wasn't like everyone was so fantastic, never had training problems and rode like centaurs. I do think people worried less about the "how" and more about just getting on with it, but then (see above) there was less concern for safety and a rather more "agricultural" attitude towards horses in general.
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Was that a bad thing??? Everybody seemed to enjoy themselves! Today all I see when out and even on this very forum is people getting stressed because they are having issues this isnt going right etc etc and the lower the level the more you get .There is in my opinion a lot more bad riding today as at the lower levels you can get away with it more.
 
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Oh well i have just been slated on one forum for trying
to help a veteran horse whos been a sweetheart all its
life. Its bolted twice with its owner and now is classed
as unsafe and needs to be put to sleep. How would they
have gone on in the good old days.
 
lizbet said:
Oh well i have just been slated on one forum for trying
to help a veteran horse whos been a sweetheart all its
life. Its bolted twice with its owner and now is classed
as unsafe and needs to be put to sleep. How would they
have gone on in the good old days.
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My mother bought a 25 yr old confirmed bolter, who was en route for the knackers as a 1st pony for me - when I was 7. That's what happened in the good old days.
I worked out that she would do a sliding stop at any speed if you started to dismount, so when we were galloping at full speed towards a main road I would have to swing my leg over and start running.
 
siennamum said:
My mother bought a 25 yr old confirmed bolter, who was en route for the knackers as a 1st pony for me - when I was 7. That's what happened in the good old days.
I worked out that she would do a sliding stop at any speed if you started to dismount, so when we were galloping at full speed towards a main road I would have to swing my leg over and start running.
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Well they know every trick
in the book dont they,but they dont normally go all thier lives
being sweethearts and then suddenly start to bolt without a valid
reason do they.
 
We used to have some serious unaffiliated shows round our way back in the 70s and 80s, with opens as others have said around 3'9/4' in the first round. Aged 10 I won one on my 13.2 pony and got my picture in all the local papers as the trophy was presented by Sir Gordon Richards. Even with decent unaffiliated tracks, it was still quite "something" to start affiliated and yes my first affiliated horse started Newcomers then onto Fox. I remember the limits being £80 and £300.

Siennamum and Pigeon's mum - yes I too have cross country photos like that (though not quite such a huge fence) but hat with velvet strap, no boots, etc.
 
In some ways I think it is lovely that affiliation is something more people can aim for now - you get quality courses/judging, and the chance of reaching things like Badminton Grassroots which is really encouraging for those who will never jump round Novice.

I think the decline of unaffiliated shows is a shame, but the number of volunteers that RCs and PCs are able to get these days, with everyone so much busier, means that running ODEs is difficult. In our area I can certainly count on fingers the number of unaff ODEs and hunter paces, and certainly only one of the six local RCs run an ODE. This means that more people turn to affiliated competition as a way of actually getting out!

To the person who said about more lower level upset, that's mostly due to the number of adult novice riders rather than introduction of lower level affiliated competition. Out doing dressage this weekend I met five adults doing their first ever test! In the old days, they would have done it all as kids at PC. And I think when you have more adults learning to ride and compete, you need a more structured way of helping them along and encouraging them - and that is where lower level affiliated comes into play, as there is so much local training etc to help them, where they haven't got the PC support that the competing kids do.
 
Does anyone remember when there used to be a lot more adults and teenagers doing gymkhana? 'Cause if your horse/pony couldn't /wouldn't jump 3' there wasn't much else you could do (and it was worth doing 'cause there was prize money for gymkhana back then!)
 
khalswitz said:
To the person who said about more lower level upset, that's mostly due to the number of adult novice riders rather than introduction of lower level affiliated competition. Out doing dressage this weekend I met five adults doing their first ever test! In the old days, they would have done it all as kids at PC. And I think when you have more adults learning to ride and compete, you need a more structured way of helping them along and encouraging them - and that is where lower level affiliated comes into play, as there is so much local training etc to help them, where they haven't got the PC support that the competing kids do.
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This is a very valid point. I sat on a horse for the first time ever in my life when I was 31. Im 40 now and have never looked back. Im very envious of everyone who is lucky to have experienced PC.
 
marmalade76 said:
Does anyone remember when there used to be a lot more adults and teenagers doing gymkhana? 'Cause if your horse/pony couldn't /wouldn't jump 3' there wasn't much else you could do (and it was worth doing 'cause there was prize money for gymkhana back then!)
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I still go to gymkhanas - and there is always pretty good turnout for the SJ and WH up here, lots of adults and teenagers. No prize money, but I guess good practice for the young horses that need to be jumping minimum 85cm for RC, and minimum 90mcm for BS, and minimum 90cm for even novice WH... it's always the 70-90cm classes that are the busiest.
 
I started jumping in the mid 1960's and the first affiliated class was Foxhunter.The first 3 fences had to be rustic and 3'6" and the remainder of the course was 3'9". It was run under A2 rules so there were two jump offs. the first would be 4' and then against the clock was 4'3" (1.15/1.22/130) Before going to affiliated shows we went to Pony Club/Riding Club where the classes ran from 2'6" (76cm) through to 3'9" (1.15).

I came from a non horsey family, had weekly riding lessons to start and then kept my horse in a livery yard at part livery - it was mucked out/turned out/caught in and fed. We were ruled by the yard owner who saw to it that we were educated in horse care and management and that included riding correctly.

I do think that nowadays many people get their first horse, keep it at DIY, read a book, watch a Monty Roberts DVD and suddenly become experts and accept no advice from anyone because they know it all. Hence the much lower standards.

If you could not jump big enough to jump 2.6" you did not go to a show. If you could not canter you did not do dressage! (not that there was much of that anyway!)

I rest my case!!
 
I think the rise in permanent show centres has "killed" the local village show. Back in my day (Late 60's/70's) there was an unaffiliated show almost every week locally, usually run for some charity or other. And yes--I remember the opens being 3'6" as a norm with many entries.
There was always gymkhana events along with the SJ and showing classes.
Hardly anyone had their own transport and so hacked along to the show, rucksack on my back with the grooming kit, ponies feed and treats and my picnic of course.
To compete affiliated SJ you had to enter way in advance and even then you often missed out as the classes were full (60+) at Newcomer level and Foxhunter. Eventing started at Novice (3'6")
Nowadays the show centres have taken on the weekly events and more and more are affiliated to the various disciplines.
 
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