Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Yes, thats what I was thinking. If someone good at letter writing and who is knowledgeable on this subject could post a letter we could all sign and send a copy to the relavent people.
The Good, The Bad and the Ugly...Shocking Reports..please read if you can..
- Thread starter nativetyponies
- Start date
Yes, thats what I was thinking. If someone good at letter writing and who is knowledgeable on this subject could post a letter we could all sign and send a copy to the relavent people.
JessandCharlie
Well-Known Member
Even it's just a rudimentary thing that people can add to/amend if need be?
EDIT: At the bottom of the page
http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/you-help/take-action
There is a link for a template letter. My computer doesn't support the file so could somebody with Microsoft Word please open it and paste it here
EDIT: At the bottom of the page
http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/you-help/take-action
There is a link for a template letter. My computer doesn't support the file so could somebody with Microsoft Word please open it and paste it here
Last edited:
Trinity Fox
Well-Known Member
Yes i know the ponies were from the uk and ended up over there i am not trying to have a go at NP but buying them at sales cheaply even if it is to help them and then selling on only fuels the trade, i agreee it should be more tightly regulated at markets but really it should be stopped at the source.
As i said before who exactly does breeding these horses benifit most of the really wild ones at the sales that end up in this predicament are not bred one at a time by individuals they are bred in bulk not properly raised or handled.
If markets could bring in restrictions so that all animals must be handled and led through ring it would give them more of a chance and at least whatever happens to them they would suffer less stress.
It is only financially viable for these people to do this because they are grazed cheaply on common land and in some cases some of these ponies are exempt from being passported the buyer has to do that why should that be we all have to passport our horses maybe if they looked at the rights of the commoners and if they consistently produce inferior stock that is being sold at market for a pittance then their rights should be revoked lets face if they had to pay for grazing at the normal rate i bet there would be far less arriving at the market.
I also think in some cases like the ponies in countryfile they are actually given government subsidies it is all totally pointless for these being bred and i think if they are going to be bred for meat which is basically what is happening then we need to admit thats whats happening and put the safeguards in place.
I personally think it is disgusting to breed these little lives for them to be roughly treated its especially unfair as they are so wild for them be dragged from pillar to post then end up with the meatman it is all just so pointless it drives me insane.
And lets face it if we wanted to protect these types of ponies from dissappearing it hardly needs to be done like this i dont think programmes like countryfile help the presenter made a comment that when they rounded them up the old ones that wouldnt do well on the hills over the winter were taken off and sold why didnt the presenter question the outcome of an old ferral pony going off to be sold .
Just as a matter of interest NP i do go to sales but dont really have much interaction with those types of sellers but maybe you have more contact with these people why do they say they keep breeding these animals is it habit tradition because they have alaways done it or is it for financial gain which its hard to see how they make money that part the why they do it has always baffled me and that is not me trying to be sarcastic it seems a hard way to do things so would be interested to know if they ever give their views on what they are doing. And just to say if i come across a a shouty maniac i am not i have bought lots of horses and sold i am a bit of softie compared to some but i just hate anything animal or person being trated badly when it neednt be and it does send me a bit mental and i go in to overdrive when typing oh and if i have got any bits wrong i apologise
As i said before who exactly does breeding these horses benifit most of the really wild ones at the sales that end up in this predicament are not bred one at a time by individuals they are bred in bulk not properly raised or handled.
If markets could bring in restrictions so that all animals must be handled and led through ring it would give them more of a chance and at least whatever happens to them they would suffer less stress.
It is only financially viable for these people to do this because they are grazed cheaply on common land and in some cases some of these ponies are exempt from being passported the buyer has to do that why should that be we all have to passport our horses maybe if they looked at the rights of the commoners and if they consistently produce inferior stock that is being sold at market for a pittance then their rights should be revoked lets face if they had to pay for grazing at the normal rate i bet there would be far less arriving at the market.
I also think in some cases like the ponies in countryfile they are actually given government subsidies it is all totally pointless for these being bred and i think if they are going to be bred for meat which is basically what is happening then we need to admit thats whats happening and put the safeguards in place.
I personally think it is disgusting to breed these little lives for them to be roughly treated its especially unfair as they are so wild for them be dragged from pillar to post then end up with the meatman it is all just so pointless it drives me insane.
And lets face it if we wanted to protect these types of ponies from dissappearing it hardly needs to be done like this i dont think programmes like countryfile help the presenter made a comment that when they rounded them up the old ones that wouldnt do well on the hills over the winter were taken off and sold why didnt the presenter question the outcome of an old ferral pony going off to be sold .
Just as a matter of interest NP i do go to sales but dont really have much interaction with those types of sellers but maybe you have more contact with these people why do they say they keep breeding these animals is it habit tradition because they have alaways done it or is it for financial gain which its hard to see how they make money that part the why they do it has always baffled me and that is not me trying to be sarcastic it seems a hard way to do things so would be interested to know if they ever give their views on what they are doing. And just to say if i come across a a shouty maniac i am not i have bought lots of horses and sold i am a bit of softie compared to some but i just hate anything animal or person being trated badly when it neednt be and it does send me a bit mental and i go in to overdrive when typing oh and if i have got any bits wrong i apologise
Fairynuff
Well-Known Member
I was led to believe that the pony I saved from certain death at an Italian 'horse fair/market' was hauled up from Holland along with umpteen other pony foals. Im now beginning to think that he may have originated from GB. Im not too convinved that the ponies are solely bought by the Italian dealers for their skins, I think that they are bought to do the rounds of the many 'fairs/markets' where they are sold to complete numpties as FALABELAS (SP?) and are suitable to live in the pottingshed and if unsold and in summer coat may well end up as ponyskin shoes. The markets here are stuffed with these poor waifs and can even be found at Verona, the most prestigious equine event here in Italy (mind you, they have foal steaks on the menu so a few waifs wont be noticed too much).
Sorry to bore those of you who already know Paolino...
here are the Welsh ponies at Monza market..they dont look too bad...yet!
these ponies spend most of their lives being hauled from market to market and most just disappear. I don't attend these places anymore as cannot stomach what goes on. I do however support WHW and the like.
Here is a list of some of the Italian companies who produce equine leather.
http://it.kompass.com/live/it/g5315...ni-equini/pelli-equine-concia-vegetale-1.html
Sorry to bore those of you who already know Paolino...
here are the Welsh ponies at Monza market..they dont look too bad...yet!
these ponies spend most of their lives being hauled from market to market and most just disappear. I don't attend these places anymore as cannot stomach what goes on. I do however support WHW and the like.
Here is a list of some of the Italian companies who produce equine leather.
http://it.kompass.com/live/it/g5315...ni-equini/pelli-equine-concia-vegetale-1.html
Trinity Fox
Well-Known Member
Having a restriction on the roaming time of stallions and amount of ponies bred is a great idea NP, wouldnt it be great if the commoners could be persuaded to introduce some real quality stock.
Do you think it would be a workable idea if some of the charities that help these ponies could maybe get involved with the handling of these ponies before they get to market i know there is a charity that takes alot of the dartmoor ponies then handles them when they arent sold.
If the commoners could be persuaded to wean and handle in a more sympathetic way then handle so they were leading when they went to sale it would make it more likely the chance of a better future lots of people may buy one of these ponies but dont have the set up for totally wild ponies.
If the charity has to take them on when they are left unsold anyway maybe this could help some of them find a home thus leaving the charity free for the worst cases and if the sellers saw them making more money and possibly selling it may encourage them to do the same.
Whenever i am at the sales youngsters that are led in and seem to have some basic handling always make more money regardless of their quality.
Do you think it would be a workable idea if some of the charities that help these ponies could maybe get involved with the handling of these ponies before they get to market i know there is a charity that takes alot of the dartmoor ponies then handles them when they arent sold.
If the commoners could be persuaded to wean and handle in a more sympathetic way then handle so they were leading when they went to sale it would make it more likely the chance of a better future lots of people may buy one of these ponies but dont have the set up for totally wild ponies.
If the charity has to take them on when they are left unsold anyway maybe this could help some of them find a home thus leaving the charity free for the worst cases and if the sellers saw them making more money and possibly selling it may encourage them to do the same.
Whenever i am at the sales youngsters that are led in and seem to have some basic handling always make more money regardless of their quality.
Changes
Well-Known Member
What kind of money are they asking for the Welshies and the little ponies, do you know Fairynuff?
Fairynuff
Well-Known Member
they were asking 250 euros for Paolino about 5 years ago-I paid 160 in the end. All small ponies are classed as Fals or mini Shets and go for 500 euros upwards. Ive seen them advertised by dealers at 1,600!!!!!! The Welsh were selling at 800 euros when I bought Paolino but there arent so many around today.
Changes
Well-Known Member
Jesus - that's more lucrative than horses!
spaniel
Well-Known Member
At the risk of riling those who breed on here.....surely rather than trying to bring in better breeding lines on herds which in theory produces a more saleable animal on the mainstream, wouldnt it be better to actually STOP all breeding for the next say 4 years thus cutting off the supply of animals totally.
I know this seems a bit extreme but if improving the herds doesnt lead to a reduction in the number of foals bred, of whatever 'quality', there will still be the dreadful glut which is now fuelling this trade out of the UK.
What it boils down to is that there are just too many equines in this country, it matters not whether they are highly bred or bag of bones pony mongrels. In the intervening dry spell breeders and owners could then be licenced ready for the re introduction of authorised breeding only.
I know this seems a bit extreme but if improving the herds doesnt lead to a reduction in the number of foals bred, of whatever 'quality', there will still be the dreadful glut which is now fuelling this trade out of the UK.
What it boils down to is that there are just too many equines in this country, it matters not whether they are highly bred or bag of bones pony mongrels. In the intervening dry spell breeders and owners could then be licenced ready for the re introduction of authorised breeding only.
Trinity Fox
Well-Known Member
I totally agree that stopping all breeding would be good but if they are still breeding them to sell for peanuts and send them to meat i dont think anything will stop them so the only other way to go would be produce better animals to ensure a future for them.
I suppose in the cases where the breeding is subsidised they could say they would only pay if breeding stopped for a couple of years i dont think they make much off the actual sale of the ponies so it may work in those cases.
I suppose in the cases where the breeding is subsidised they could say they would only pay if breeding stopped for a couple of years i dont think they make much off the actual sale of the ponies so it may work in those cases.
Changes
Well-Known Member
A huge proportion of these hill ponies are deformed, they need to stop breeding them, weed out the poor quality and only then think about select herds. There are so many inherent genetic faults that will take far too long to breed out by just adding fresh blood.
The way to go is licensing and a huge punishment involving removal of all stock illegally produced.
The way to go is licensing and a huge punishment involving removal of all stock illegally produced.
tinkandlily
Well-Known Member
JessandCharlie
Well-Known Member
For anybody who needs it; a template later off the WHW website (I know I posted a link earlier but I figured seeing as I had trouble opening it, others might too.
Dear Commissioner Dalli
I am writing with regard to an aspect of your portfolio which means a great deal to me: the long-distance transportation of horses to slaughter in Europe.
Every year 100,000 horses are transported long-distance to slaughter in Europe. These horses will travel for days across many Member States, passing many slaughterhouses that could take them. The conditions in which they travel – forced into tiny, inadequate spaces, without proper rest, food or water - lead to injuries, exhaustion, dehydration and stress.
Written Declaration 54/2009, calling for immediate and robust enforcement and a review of the current Regulation, was supported by MEPs, charities, the horse industry and the public across Europe. Please now carry out a review of the Regulation and introduce a short, finite journey limit and increased space allowance so that horses no longer suffer needlessly.
This is not only an unnecessary abuse of horses – it poses a serious risk to animal health. Inadequate hygiene, a lack of biosecurity and the poor condition of the horses make them very susceptible to disease. Every day, sick horses are sent across Europe to slaughter, compromising their welfare, wider horse health, and posing a serious economic threat to the horse industry. Equine Infectious Anaemia (EIA, or Swamp Fever) has been in the spotlight recently: this disease has been spreading across Europe for years, often along slaughter routes - becoming endemic in Italy. Other serious diseases which could be spread by these journeys include Salmonella, African Horse Sickness, West Nile Disease and Rabies. Some of these are zoonotic, putting both human and animal health at risk.
There is a simple solution to all these problems: a Regulation which addresses these issues and closes existing loopholes. World Horse Welfare is campaigning for:
The introduction of short, finite journey limits;
The introduction of adequate space allowances which take into account the wide variety of ages, types and sizes of horse which are transported to slaughter;
Improved welfare standards, through simple improvements to vehicle design;
Immediate and robust enforcement. The deficiencies in the current Regulation mean that enforcement alone cannot solve these problems but it would alleviate them until an improved Regulation comes into force to finally deal with them.
These measures would protect the welfare of the horses being transported to slaughter, the health of the wider European horse population, and consumers of horsemeat.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Yours sincerely,
Dear Commissioner Dalli
I am writing with regard to an aspect of your portfolio which means a great deal to me: the long-distance transportation of horses to slaughter in Europe.
Every year 100,000 horses are transported long-distance to slaughter in Europe. These horses will travel for days across many Member States, passing many slaughterhouses that could take them. The conditions in which they travel – forced into tiny, inadequate spaces, without proper rest, food or water - lead to injuries, exhaustion, dehydration and stress.
Written Declaration 54/2009, calling for immediate and robust enforcement and a review of the current Regulation, was supported by MEPs, charities, the horse industry and the public across Europe. Please now carry out a review of the Regulation and introduce a short, finite journey limit and increased space allowance so that horses no longer suffer needlessly.
This is not only an unnecessary abuse of horses – it poses a serious risk to animal health. Inadequate hygiene, a lack of biosecurity and the poor condition of the horses make them very susceptible to disease. Every day, sick horses are sent across Europe to slaughter, compromising their welfare, wider horse health, and posing a serious economic threat to the horse industry. Equine Infectious Anaemia (EIA, or Swamp Fever) has been in the spotlight recently: this disease has been spreading across Europe for years, often along slaughter routes - becoming endemic in Italy. Other serious diseases which could be spread by these journeys include Salmonella, African Horse Sickness, West Nile Disease and Rabies. Some of these are zoonotic, putting both human and animal health at risk.
There is a simple solution to all these problems: a Regulation which addresses these issues and closes existing loopholes. World Horse Welfare is campaigning for:
The introduction of short, finite journey limits;
The introduction of adequate space allowances which take into account the wide variety of ages, types and sizes of horse which are transported to slaughter;
Improved welfare standards, through simple improvements to vehicle design;
Immediate and robust enforcement. The deficiencies in the current Regulation mean that enforcement alone cannot solve these problems but it would alleviate them until an improved Regulation comes into force to finally deal with them.
These measures would protect the welfare of the horses being transported to slaughter, the health of the wider European horse population, and consumers of horsemeat.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Yours sincerely,
stencilface
High upon a hillside
Not read all replies.
I honestly hate these posts, they make me feel physically sick. Although I am glad that people post this and are able to bring it up - its not something I would be able to do
Poor horses - they don't deserve to be treated that way - no animal does.
I honestly hate these posts, they make me feel physically sick. Although I am glad that people post this and are able to bring it up - its not something I would be able to do
Poor horses - they don't deserve to be treated that way - no animal does.
Fairynuff
Well-Known Member
this wee soul is up for sale---1'300 euros
http://www.subito.it/animali/cavallo-pony-caserta-18232114.htm
and here we have a 4 month old colt and a 2 year old filly IN FOAL for the price of 2,500 euro
http://www.subito.it/animali/puledro-falabella-napoli-18170618.htm
only 800 euro and probably on his way to being a lami!
http://www.subito.it/animali/pony-caserta-18139760.htm
and here we have the wee spotties-looking good (for the moment) but no price given..
http://www.subito.it/animali/da-non-credere-cavallini-appalosa-napoli-14220251.htm
http://www.subito.it/animali/cavallo-pony-caserta-18232114.htm
and here we have a 4 month old colt and a 2 year old filly IN FOAL for the price of 2,500 euro
http://www.subito.it/animali/puledro-falabella-napoli-18170618.htm
only 800 euro and probably on his way to being a lami!
http://www.subito.it/animali/pony-caserta-18139760.htm
and here we have the wee spotties-looking good (for the moment) but no price given..
http://www.subito.it/animali/da-non-credere-cavallini-appalosa-napoli-14220251.htm
suestowford
Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure I read recently that this lot http://www.dartmoorhillpony.com/ are trying to introduce managed numbers on Dartmoor. Contact details on the website.
the_sophies
Well-Known Member
This is his email address: cab-dalli-webpage@ec.europa.eu
I might amend some of this to send elsewhere, do you think that would be ok?
Maisie2
Well-Known Member
Thank you NP, I've signed the petitiononline which seems a very sensible first step. I see there are only around 750 signatures When I recover from YH I will read the other posts re sending letters to relevant authorities.
When I recover from YH I will read the other posts re sending letters to relevant authorities.Changes
Well-Known Member
Do they get these prices???
WoopsiiD
Well-Known Member
Its all a very good idea on paper, but the logistics involved make it a hard to enforce legally. It would be much easier to have someone doing their job correctly at the 100 or so ports to france then to have someone checking the licensing and breeding side.
jokadoka
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with this. I crossed the channel by ferry towing a horse trailer. The "check" at the British side, i.e leaving the UK, consisted of the employee sitting in the "hut" asking" you don't have a horse in there do you? to which we replied no. The person just took our word for it and moved us on. On our return journey to the UK, we were obviously checked on the French side also, which involved us producing paperwork for the trailer itself twice and having to open it up for an inspection 3 times! The moral of the story being that it seems a lot easier to move something out of the UK than bringing something it to the UK. I know the security people on the French side are British employees and presume the ones in the UK are too, so why the total indifference on one side? Is it because nobody gives a hoot because you're moving something out rather than into the country? Completely baffled me...
In case anybody's interested, the trailer was full of furniture, but the guys at Dover certainly didn't know that and had no interest in finding out....
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
It seems to me that as well as opening more abattoirs for horses and enforcing minimum values, DEFRA should re-introduce compulsory licensing of entire males, then many of the lazy b*ggers who can't be bothered to geld and let their stock roam the hills, moors and forests breeding indiscriminately and those numpties who think that it is a 'nice idea' to own a stallion, regardless of their own knowledge and the horse's quality, or lack of it, and let it cover mares of equally questionable quality might think again.
yeeharider
Well-Known Member
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
The good....
http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2010/11/the-good/
The Bad....
http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2010/11/……-the-bad-…/
and The Ugly....
http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2010/11/and-the-ugly-2/
We, as horse lovers MUST support this group in France
http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/
How the hell did those Dartmoor Hill Ponies get to Maurs?
Where were those at the ports supposedly checking paperwork for minimum values?
This country, and DEFRA are a ****ing joke..
it makes me SO mad that these poor souls have travelled from Dartmoor to the south of france, to be sold on to a Skins Dealer from Italy?...
THIS IS NOT RIGHT!!!
And it's about time this country, as a collective whole, grew a pair and stood up for what is right.............
There are at least 1000 members on HHO...how many of us actually ACTIVELY campaign against this shyte?
Come on everyone, do your bit.
If just a small percentage did something, it would make a huge difference, believe me.
These people do an enormous amount for UK markets/sales
http://emwfundraising.webs.com/
and ERF in France..on the frontline...
http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/
Very very sad, words fail me. Its a pity there is an HHO icon for 'tears falling'.