The Grand National :D

Over2You said:
I have just read through this thread and watched a replay. I am sick beyond words. TWO horse dead, not through accident, but because of sheer and utter greed. The cheers from the crowds continuing to get louder and more excited as two horses lay on the ground in agony - awaiting their final fate. The organisers did not even have the decency to remove the lifeless body of Ornasis, but instead left him wrapped in tarpaulin for all to see. Nor did the BBC show Dooney's Gate an ounce of dignity as they panned their aerial camera over the screens that were supposed to give the horse some privacy. A commentator said: "Majestic Concorde unseats its rider." Not him, but it! Ballabriggs and several of the other finishers could barely walk because they were as exhausted. Brilliant race? It was anything, but brilliant. TWO HORSES DIED and a number of others on the verge of collapsing after they had finished!! Oh well, at least Ornasis and Dooney's Gate went doing something they loved. Oh wait, they went doing something YOU loved!!

A Grand National of disgrace is what it was.

Rest peacefully poor horses. This includes Inventor who perished on Thursday at Aintree.
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at last somebody aggrees with me, people say that the horses enjoy racing but look at their faces they just look terrified and they are only running because they are flight animals not because they love it. all horse racing is a discrace it should be banned.its cruel and there is too much cheating with drugs. its cruel horses dont enkoy it and the racehorses dont have a normal life which every horse should have its unfair and just a money making scheme. cruel!!! them horses died for our entertainment if we all loved horses that much we wouldnt race them!!
 
MagicMelon said:
How can you love it? 2 horses dead. That make it worth it?
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yeah i know how can people love it. people are syaing your horse could die when your eventing but atleast your horse is happy if it did happen to die. where as the race horses die all stressed out most probably been druged up to make them run faster and jump. horses shouldnt have drugs all horses are natural performers therfore dont need drugs.
 
missponymad said:
yeah i know how can people love it. people are syaing your horse could die when your eventing but atleast your horse is happy if it did happen to die. where as the race horses die all stressed out most probably been druged up to make them run faster and jump. horses shouldnt have drugs all horses are natural performers therfore dont need drugs.
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quotes like this is why I shouldn't read theses post. Don't know how much above user knows about racing but it's very strict on what you can and can't give horses. You can't make any horse do what it dosnt want to do. Any many race horses do lead normal lives when in training, more normal than many eventers and dressage horses.
 
missponymad, mad indeed well I find your fluffy post is, you can't really believe what you are posting, unless off course you are very young inwhich case I apologise, and you will learn when you get older.

Racing is heavily regulated and that also means they are very astute in random drug tests to prevent what you describe, so one thing you can be sure off is they are not drugged up to make them run faster and jump!
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink or put it in simple terms just incase it is necessary, you can ride a horse to a fence but you can't make it jump!
 
who remembers one year when three horses died during the cross country at badminton?, it was very wet and lead to the event taking place later.

they did'nt stop it either even after the fatalities
 
Good point about Badminton and the fatalities there..I hate seeing the horses fall,and to have 2 fatalities is beyond awful..my heart goes out to all those connected with the horses.Maybe the organisers at Aintree need to think about the numbers that start at the G.N??..p'haps 40 is too many and that causes issues as well..with pile ups at the 1st lot of fences??
What do other people think??
 
missponymad said:
yeah i know how can people love it. people are syaing your horse could die when your eventing but atleast your horse is happy if it did happen to die. where as the race horses die all stressed out most probably been druged up to make them run faster and jump. horses shouldnt have drugs all horses are natural performers therfore dont need drugs.
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Race horses are not stressed out. How do you know horses love eventing?

Drugs are banned in racing. You will find many more drugged horses in your average livery yard, doped up with bute to keep them out of pain because their owner can't bear to let them go. Also, do let me know of which drugs make horses run faster and jump higher, I have a cracking WHP stamp who refuses point blank to jump but if I could find something that MAKES him do it then great!
 
teagreen said:
Race horses are not stressed out.
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sorry? Did you see those horses that did finish yesterday? Not stressed out? The winner needed oxygen, water both inside and out as he was so desperately dehydrated and he wasn't the only one undergoing such treatment. to not even be able to be ridden back to the enclosure says it all for me.

I used to love the National and have watched it every year before anyone says I am a horse racing basher, I am not - but let's not cover up the truth of what happens in some races.

Even his stable lad in an interview after said he was completely dehydrated. Dehydration causes stress on a body, let alone the other physical effects of finishing that race in that heat when they were taken out at a ridiculous pace from the beginning.
 
Kiribati_uk said:
Yes its very sad that two horses died in the national but after all they are ANIMALS!!!
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I wasn't going to post but wanted to point out that we happen to be animals as well...

I can't wait for the day that human athletes have to endure the same husbandry and risk. Perhaps we will then see other animals as our equal and not just as disposible objects that we happen to say and think we love... :(
 
My goodness, there are some patronising posts on here! This is my first posting and I am afraid it may be controversial as I too am very much against the National.
I found yesterday barbaric tbh and that was without even watching it. 2 beautiful majestic animals died, not in the name of sport I might add, in the name of money, greed and profit.
After there were some needing oxyggen and others wholly dehydrated.
I fail to see (and again my opinion) how the words animal lover and enjoy the national can be used in the same sentence.
Maybe that makes me all fluffy and pink, so be it, I dont like racing, hunting both go against everything I believe in.
 
But horses die 'in the name of sport' most weeks, in racing and in other sports. The National is not a one off 'horse killer' - horses die on the flat, in bumpers, over hurdles, over chase fences as well as during eventing, team chasing, showjumping, polo and even showing, to name but a few.

I have been browsing trainers websites today and came across this, written today by Lucinda Russell, trainer of one of the favourites Silver By Nature, who finished 12th:

Coming into the yard this morning the atmosphere was a little flat. Tonto had a small cut which Ali, my head girl and I were worried about. Pete Burton from Loch Leven Equine Vets came in to check it and reported that it was fine, clean but bruised. Tonto has been led out for a pick of grass and will nw be allowed to rest.

This slight scare over Tonto has highlighted that the most important thing for us is that he is fine, whether or not he wins the race. It is sad that the Mail On Sunday described the race as 'Carnage', and we feel for the owners whose horses did not come back from the race. Unfortunately horses get killed racing, but also while being ridden in other sports, while in the field and even when in their stables. They are fragile beings and despite huge advances in veterinary technology many of their injuries have a terminal outcome.
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Now, doesn't that sound like a trainer who cares first and foremost about the welfare of her beloved horse? Similar comments come from Donald McCain, David Pipe and Paul Nicholls who have all been quick to update on how the horses are this morning, no matter where they finished. Trainers, owners, jockeys and stable staff all love their horses very much - they are not cold, hard beings who throw the horses back into their stables and grumble because they didn't win the big prize. They are grateful that they came home safely. As demonstrated by Lucinda.
 
splurcherfan said:
My goodness, there are some patronising posts on here! This is my first posting and I am afraid it may be controversial as I too am very much against the National.
I found yesterday barbaric tbh and that was without even watching it. 2 beautiful majestic animals died, not in the name of sport I might add, in the name of money, greed and profit.
After there were some needing oxyggen and others wholly dehydrated.
I fail to see (and again my opinion) how the words animal lover and enjoy the national can be used in the same sentence.
Maybe that makes me all fluffy and pink, so be it, I dont like racing, hunting both go against everything I believe in.
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Interesting first post! And your first sentence is a bit pot and kettle!!
 
Over2You said:
I have just read through this thread and watched a replay. I am sick beyond words. TWO horse dead, not through accident, but because of sheer and utter greed. The cheers from the crowds continuing to get louder and more excited as two horses lay on the ground in agony - awaiting their final fate. The organisers did not even have the decency to remove the lifeless body of Ornasis, but instead left him wrapped in tarpaulin for all to see. Nor did the BBC show Dooney's Gate an ounce of dignity as they panned their aerial camera over the screens that were supposed to give the horse some privacy. A commentator said: "Majestic Concorde unseats its rider." Not him, but it! Ballabriggs and several of the other finishers could barely walk because they were as exhausted. Brilliant race? It was anything, but brilliant. TWO HORSES DIED and a number of others on the verge of collapsing after they had finished!! Oh well, at least Ornasis and Dooney's Gate went doing something they loved. Oh wait, they went doing something YOU loved!!

A Grand National of disgrace is what it was.

Rest peacefully poor horses. This includes Inventor who perished on Thursday at Aintree.
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Usual sensationalist drivel from you.

Two horses did not lie on the ground in agony awaiting their fate - Ornais was either dead as he took off, or killed immediately. And how do you suggest they moved the body in the 4 minute window before the field came around again?

Dooney's Gate will have been despatched very quickly - the likelihood of him feeling any pain is negligible - adrenalin and shock will have that one covered for the very short time he was being checked, thanks to Mother Nature.

Seriously, for someone who supposedly is regularly horrified at racing, you do appear to take a rather excitable and unseemly delight in the fact that horses do sometimes die.

Don't watch the race if you are so upset.
 
Horses die every day in the name of sport. Horses die everyday due to abuse. Horses die every day due to illness and old age.
How many humans die in the name of sport in comparison?

Dying in the name of sport doesn't imo absolve us of the responsibility we have to the horses in our care and it certainly doesn't make it right or acceptable. :(

I don't want to accept this level of risk for horses anymore, I believe things in the horse industry must change. After all we have a choice in the matter, the horses just do what they are told and trained to do. Does that acceptance from horses allow us to expect or accept for them to die for our entertainment and monetary gain. Not me I'm afraid. :(
 
Over2You said:
I have just read through this thread and watched a replay. I am sick beyond words. TWO horse dead, not through accident, but because of sheer and utter greed. The cheers from the crowds continuing to get louder and more excited as two horses lay on the ground in agony - awaiting their final fate. The organisers did not even have the decency to remove the lifeless body of Ornasis, but instead left him wrapped in tarpaulin for all to see. Nor did the BBC show Dooney's Gate an ounce of dignity as they panned their aerial camera over the screens that were supposed to give the horse some privacy. A commentator said: "Majestic Concorde unseats its rider." Not him, but it! Ballabriggs and several of the other finishers could barely walk because they were as exhausted. Brilliant race? It was anything, but brilliant. TWO HORSES DIED and a number of others on the verge of collapsing after they had finished!! Oh well, at least Ornasis and Dooney's Gate went doing something they loved. Oh wait, they went doing something YOU loved!!

A Grand National of disgrace is what it was.

Rest peacefully poor horses. This includes Inventor who perished on Thursday at Aintree.
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Agreed. Shocking how this can happen and be accepted as normality. 3 horses dead this year. 33 dead at Aintree since 2000. 2004 being the only year without any direct fatalities.

We all know that sports in general can be risky- whoever is taking part, horse, dog, human etc. There is no way to eliminate all risk and still have any sport left. However, it seems to me that the national should be banned as the risk is so ridiculously high. No other sport or sporting event has such a high number of fatalities.

Still. We all know nothing will happen about it until a jockey finally gets killed on the track- then perhaps they'll take a good hard look at the death toll and finally do something about it...
 
eeks said:
Agreed. Shocking how this can happen and be accepted as normality. 3 horses dead this year. 33 dead at Aintree since 2000. 2004 being the only year without any direct fatalities.

We all know that sports in general can be risky- whoever is taking part, horse, dog, human etc. There is no way to eliminate all risk and still have any sport left. However, it seems to me that the national should be banned as the risk is so ridiculously high. No other sport or sporting event has such a high number of fatalities.
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These figures you quote do NOT pertain to the National course - at least get your facts straight.
 
One needs to get all this in perspective bearing in mind a collective figure of about 8,000,000 (eight million) horses were killed during WWI from both sides.

In many instances cut down by machine gun fire, wounded and laying on the battle field for several days, before being finally shot.

The horses killed in the Grand National, or at any racecourse, either die instantly or are humanely shot within a few moments of the extent of the injuries being determined.
 
The grand national is a lot safer than it was 20 years ago. I think some horses are put into the national before they are really ready for it and some are just unlucky. If a horse hasnt had good form before the race eg falls or pulled up then I think its unfair to run them in national. Rotational falls can occur in eventing etc and as with all falls its how they land that determines their fate. Thats my opinion anyway.
 
Judgemental said:
One needs to get all this in perspective bearing in mind a collective figure of about 8,000,000 (eight million) horses were killed during WWI from both sides.

In many instances cut down by machine gun fire, wounded and laying on the battle field for several days, before being finally shot.
.
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I'm sorry but this is a ludicrous argument. You do know that WW1 started almost 100 years ago and that horses are no longer used in war, right? I mean sure, tell people they need to put things into perspective, but not by using a completely irrelevant point of comparison!
 
I cant believe the argument is still going on.

Horses can fall anytime, no matter what speed, height of fence etc etc.

For example, a couple of years ago, i was jumping a course of 2'3 - 2'6 jumps in our sand school. I approached a fence, in a nice canter, took off on what looked and felt like a perfect stride and next minute, me and the poor horse were on the floor. he had hit it, the blocks fell but so did he.
(me and horse were fine)
 
Caledonia said:
Get the percentages runners to fallers - this is inflammatory manipulation of statistics.

As for 'raced to death' I know several people who lost horses listed on this site - these animals wanted for nothing, and were so adored.

This site makes me sick.
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Me too :(
 
I saw a rotational fall in showjumping this weekend, yes horse was fine but he proper landed on his head and only jumping 1.10m. It is sad to have lost horses at Aintree but certainly the first horse out the back and not hampered in any way. As both falls were early in the race then exhaustion surely couldn't play a part?
 
There is a poor young jockey lying in an induced coma in hospital with a brain bleed. That is tragic and I hope he makes a full recovery. The death of the 2 horses in the National was yes very sad, and yes they are all loved and cared for by all their connections. But whichever ever way you look at it a human life is more important.

When I had to have one of my first horses put down I was unable to go in the yard or field to the others for about 10 days - just couldn't do it. A few years later I found my mare dead in the stable on Monday morning. Yes I was upset but it was not the same. Why.....well I was returning to work for the first time that morning after cancer and all the associated treatment that goes with it. It makes you value human life.....I realised that you can always replace a horse but you can't a human. I don't love my horses any less, but you have to remember that humans come first.

Some things need to be put into perspective. The Mail on Sunday online is sick for its sensational headline and photos.
 
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