The Grand National :D

Ditchjumper2 said:
There is a poor young jockey lying in an induced coma in hospital with a brain bleed. That is tragic and I hope he makes a full recovery. The death of the 2 horses in the National was yes very sad, and yes they are all loved and cared for by all their connections. But whichever ever way you look at it a human life is more important.

When I had to have one of my first horses put down I was unable to go in the yard or field to the others for about 10 days - just couldn't do it. A few years later I found my mare dead in the stable on Monday morning. Yes I was upset but it was not the same. Why.....well I was returning to work for the first time that morning after cancer and all the associated treatment that goes with it. It makes you value human life.....I realised that you can always replace a horse but you can't a human. I don't love my horses any less, but you have to remember that humans come first.

Some things need to be put into perspective. The Mail on Sunday online is sick for its sensational headline and photos.
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You're so right. Think thats the point everyone is missing. Sad about horses but tragic about jockey and thoughts to his family. Well done ditchjumper for beating cancer, hope you are well now, even though I dont know you.
 
im not a fan of racing if im honest but only because it does not really interest me in the way other equine sports do. but i dont think its cruel or barbaric as people seem to be implying
we have been fortunate this week in having some rather warmer weather than we have been used to in recent months and so its hardly a great suprise that the horses were more tired than usual. as for them looking stressed thats what happens when you run on adrenalin. yes its sad that two horses died but they both died doing their job at the peak of their careers not crippled with arthritis stuck in a 12 by 12 box and in a lot of pain for a long time.
rotational falls occur in all jumping disaplins whether we like it or not we can do all we can to reduce the number of falls but there will always be some element of risk involved. the same thing could have happened out on a hack jumping a fallen tree ect.
if my horse was going to die due to a rotational fall i would much prefer them to go on a racetrack where there is a vet on hand immedietly rather than miles from anywhere with a horse in agony.
 
Well done to Ballabriggs, was a very good race and I went for Oscar Time. I was going to put a pound each way but decided to go all out on the win... what a mistake!

Its a shame about Dooneys Gate and Ornais, RIP and my thoughts go to the owners and carers. As horrid as it was, Ornais seemed to go quickly as he fell onto his head (broken neck probably) and didn't move as the camera continued. I felt more for Dooneys Gate as he hit the fence straight on and rotated but you saw him move his head as the camera continued on. Think that was why the boards were up.
However I do believe that they go doing something that they quite enjoy as they do all get excited beforehand like kids going to the theme park and every sport has risks, sometimes I think the publicity on the national just highlights the fatalities more.
 
Hi

On holiday we took our sons to the races and one horse dropped down dead, it went wobbly and just went! I am assuming it had a heart attack but I was impressed at how quickly and efficiently they removed the bodies! Although shocking, it was obvious they had this whole thing down to a fine art with lots of practice.

But I dont like the grand national and get fed up with comments about they dont have to do it if they didnt want to?..ur I thought horses were naturally herd animals and will follow any way(perhaps I am stupid too to think this)? Looks like a huge stampede to me!

At the end of the day its a money spinner and perhaps I am a hypocrite too as a happy hacker as I am sure my horse would rather I wasnt sitting on its back and happier on a hill somewhere.

Perhaps a more knowledgeable person of the racing world would know do more horses in the Grand National die at the Chair and bechers brook jumps, even I remember as a child these two jumps 40+ years ago claimed horses. Money Root of all evil its about ££££££££££!
 
If they didn't want to run they wouldn't it's not like pretty pony pet's.

I may sound a bit controversial but I don't really care, cos at the end of the day an opinion is an opinion.

Two horses died doing what they wanted to do.

However and this is not contradictory because the national IS the national. I don't think they should enter horses that haven't got a chance in hell.

Thats the HUMANS fault, not there's.

And even the best horse can be brought down in the national think about that.

(I've watched 'Dark Ivy' fall and many others)
 
Ditchjumper2 said:
There is a poor young jockey lying in an induced coma in hospital with a brain bleed. That is tragic and I hope he makes a full recovery. The death of the 2 horses in the National was yes very sad, and yes they are all loved and cared for by all their connections. But whichever ever way you look at it a human life is more important.

When I had to have one of my first horses put down I was unable to go in the yard or field to the others for about 10 days - just couldn't do it. A few years later I found my mare dead in the stable on Monday morning. Yes I was upset but it was not the same. Why.....well I was returning to work for the first time that morning after cancer and all the associated treatment that goes with it. It makes you value human life.....I realised that you can always replace a horse but you can't a human. I don't love my horses any less, but you have to remember that humans come first.

Some things need to be put into perspective. The Mail on Sunday online is sick for its sensational headline and photos.
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As mentioned in a previous reply, we are animals too!! We evolved from apes - why do you think we have redundant tail bones? All life is equal in my eyes. That is why I do not eat meat and hate racing with an absolute passion. You can harp on about other sports having their fatalities, but no other claims as many lives as racing. As for horses doing something they 'love'. That is a fairy story you pro-racing lot like to tell yourselves. Several top trainers have admitted that they have 'harnessed their fear'. This can be confirmed in an episode of that series Martin Clunes did about horses. Racing is all about exploiting the horses natural instinct to run with the herd and how they react to predators. All for money, ego boosting and to have a nice shiny trophy on the mantle piece. Certainly not for the love of the horse.

Thank goodness the Mail on Sunday revealed some truths about the horrific event. They also named every single horse to have perished at the meeting since 2000. Do any of your pro-racing sites have a memorial page remembering the dead? Good on you Daily Mail!
 
Thank you melanie99 - it certainly puts everything in perspective when you have had cancer.

Caitlineloise - I so agree. There are horses dying at racetracks all over the country. If 2 died at Market Rasen in one race I doubt the Great British public would even hear about it and there certainly wouldn't be the furore there is about the National. It is sad but it is life.

Over2you - I respect you are entitled to your opinion but suspect you live in an unreal world. Life is a risk whether for horses or humans and part of life is death. No one likes to see horses die but it happens. We deal and move on. Doesn't mean we enjoy it.
 
Just to put my two penneth in.

Enough now. Let's hope the authorities take a long hard look at the race and do some radical overhauling.

Less horses (maximum of 20), no handicapping, stricter qualifiying for horse and jockey and a look at the fences.

I like others get tremendously excited watching this race - but I really do feel that it is time to change things.

Oh, and the winning jockey - as devastating as it might be - should have the win taken off him I'm afraid. In my view you don't get the right to the win if you immediately have a race ban impossed on you for whip misuse. :(
 
amymay said:
Just to put my two penneth in.

Enough now. Let's hope the authorities take a long hard look at the race and do some radical overhauling.

Less horses (maximum of 20), no handicapping, stricter qualifiying for horse and jockey and a look at the fences.

I like others get tremendously excited watching this race - but I really do feel that it is time to change things.

Oh, and the winning jockey - as devastating as it might be - should have the win taken off him I'm afraid. In my view you don't get the right to the win if you immediately have a race ban impossed on you for whip misuse. :(
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Well said amymay
 
missponymad said:
at last somebody aggrees with me, people say that the horses enjoy racing but look at their faces they just look terrified and they are only running because they are flight animals not because they love it. all horse racing is a discrace it should be banned.its cruel and there is too much cheating with drugs. its cruel horses dont enkoy it and the racehorses dont have a normal life which every horse should have its unfair and just a money making scheme. cruel!!! them horses died for our entertainment if we all loved horses that much we wouldnt race them!!
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Living in the land of make believe.
I am not totally for the national as i do believe too many enter and it's a little long and big....but having said that i'm not against it either.
Race horses aren't drugged they are highly regulated.
I also don't believe you have ever sat on a horse in trianing....if you had then you'd know that they love what they do and drag your arms out to get to the fence.
Any horse that doesn't enjoy it, will never make it as far as the National, they are the horses alot of us have at home. The ones that either weren't good enough or just didn't enjoy racing.

As you know you can't force some of our horses over a 2'6" pole if it doen't want too, so you think you can force one over a hedge as big as the ones at the National.

Facts before you gob off.

Really sad for the horses that died. Like I said i sit on the fence on this one.
 
missponymad said:
at last somebody aggrees with me, people say that the horses enjoy racing but look at their faces they just look terrified and they are only running because they are flight animals not because they love it. all horse racing is a discrace it should be banned.its cruel and there is too much cheating with drugs. its cruel horses dont enkoy it and the racehorses dont have a normal life which every horse should have its unfair and just a money making scheme. cruel!!! them horses died for our entertainment if we all loved horses that much we wouldnt race them!!
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What are you basing your accusations of drug abuse on, missponymad?.

Have you ever worked with or been around race horses?
 
the loss of any horse in racing is very upsetting but it is a fact of any sport that involves horses that there is a risk attached. The key is to try and minimise those risks and racing reviews and takes very seriously these incidents.
Personally I would like to see less horses in the GN, ground that is always on the softer side of good to help slow them down a little (modern watering systems can easily manage this) and perhaps removing one or two fences, especially in the 1st straight, were its always a mad dash.

I also think its time for the media to start taking more responsibility - some of the headlines have been nothing short of scandalous scare mongering and the animal rights people are having a field day with the "racing uneducated" general public. In addition, the BBC have a lot to answer for. I know it was impossible to remove the bodies of both horses while the race was on, but surely with modern technology it would have been possible to change camera angles so that we did not have to see the bodies of the 2 stricken horses. particularly that of Ornais, left covered by a tarpaulin. Or why could he not be screened off as well. GMTV showed a picture this morning of the moment of impact (not sure which horse) - WHY ? what is to be gained from that ? its not about hiding or sanitising the truth, we have a right to know, but sometimes these graphic images are just sensationalising for the sake of it.

Thoughts with the connections of both horses and also for Peter Toole. We should remember how brave these horses and riders are, not just on GN day, but every day.
 
Over2You said:
That is a fairy story you pro-racing lot like to tell yourselves. Several top trainers have admitted that they have 'harnessed their fear'. This can be confirmed in an episode of that series Martin Clunes did about horses. !
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I'm sorry, but I cannot take someone whose views are based on a one-off TV programme seriously when compared to professionals who work in the industry. It gives the impression you have never been near a racehorse in your life and no next to nothing about their training and preperation.

Over2You said:
Racing is all about exploiting the horses natural instinct to run with the herd and how they react to predators. All for money, ego boosting and to have a nice shiny trophy on the mantle piece. Certainly not for the love of the horse. !
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Anything we do with horses is about exploiting horse's natural instincts. Even keeping them in shared fields. Competition provides the medium to test our skills with horses in a controlled, regulated environment.

Over2You said:
Thank goodness the Mail on Sunday revealed some truths about the horrific event. They also named every single horse to have perished at the meeting since 2000. Do any of your pro-racing sites have a memorial page remembering the dead? Good on you Daily Mail!
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I feel it necessary to point out that the Daily Mail is fond of printing photographs of the world's smallest horses, often standing next to a Shire. IMHO breeding genetic faults to produce "minature" horses for human amusement, which will never be able to lead a normal healthy horse's life, is so cruel it is off the scale. Yet the Daily Mail often prints such photos as being cute and thereby encourages the attitude towards animals that they are here for human amusement, as long as that human amusement meets the sentimentality test.
 
Mithras said:
I'm sorry, but I cannot take someone whose views are based on a one-off TV programme seriously when compared to professionals who work in the industry. It gives the impression you have never been near a racehorse in your life and no next to nothing about their training and preperation.

You clearly know (not no) nothing about me. My Guy would have been dead years ago if the racing industry had gotten its way. He was one of about twenty being auctioned off at a sale frequented by killer buyers. He is a happy, healthy and extremely good natured horse. It makes me sick that your beloved industry could not have cared less about his fate. I also trust you cannot take the viewpoint of a top trainer (an industry professional and whose name escapes me) seriously too.


Anything we do with horses is about exploiting horse's natural instincts. Even keeping them in shared fields. Competition provides the medium to test our skills with horses in a controlled, regulated environment.

A controlled, regulated environment? Do not make me laugh. Sending them hurtling over gargantuan obstacles from a gallop is only asking for trouble. Exhausting them to the point that they:

A. Die of heart attacks.

B. Need to be dismounted immediately after crossing the finishing line.

C. Need oxygen.

I feel it necessary to point out that the Daily Mail is fond of printing photographs of the world's smallest horses, often standing next to a Shire. IMHO breeding genetic faults to produce "minature" horses for human amusement, which will never be able to lead a normal healthy horse's life, is so cruel it is off the scale. Yet the Daily Mail often prints such photos as being cute and thereby encourages the attitude towards animals that they are here for human amusement, as long as that human amusement meets the sentimentality test.

I read the report on the National in yesterday's edition of the Mail on Sunday very carefully. It only reported some FACTS that you would rather the "uneducated public" know nothing about.
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Your 'sport' revolts me!!
 
How about acknowledging the amazing McCain family for training the winners of FIVE Grand Nationals,and recognising Ballabrig for being a magnificent stamp of the old fashioned deep girthed Chaser that he is.

An incredible training record and an amazing horse as well.
 
Ditchjumper2 said:
Thank you melanie99 - it certainly puts everything in perspective when you have had cancer.

Caitlineloise - I so agree. There are horses dying at racetracks all over the country. If 2 died at Market Rasen in one race I doubt the Great British public would even hear about it and there certainly wouldn't be the furore there is about the National. It is sad but it is life.

Over2you - I respect you are entitled to your opinion but suspect you live in an unreal world. Life is a risk whether for horses or humans and part of life is death. No one likes to see horses die but it happens. We deal and move on. Doesn't mean we enjoy it.
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I most certainly do not live in an 'unreal world'. I live in one where people are fuelled by greed and the never-ending need to be in the spotlight. They strive for those things in just about every walk of life. Be it at home, in the workplace or in sport. I can accept that. However, I lose ALL respect when they put the lives of innocent creatures on the line for their personal gain. I will never be able to articulate how stunned I am that some of you self professed animal lovers find racing acceptable. It is cruel and barbaric. On par with the likes of bull/dog fighting. Where animals regularly die in the name of 'entertainment'.

Horses falling and dying in racing are not accidents. A horse slipping in the field is an accident. A horse tripping on a rock is an accident. A horse dying after a fall due to being sent over a behemoth of a hedge from speeds of up to (or over) 30mph is no bloody accident. It is a preventable inevitability. Do not try to brush off the deaths as accidents. Accidents are more often than not just that. Fatalities in racing will ALWAYS be preventable!!
 
EAST KENT said:
How about acknowledging the amazing McCain family for training the winners of FIVE Grand Nationals,and recognising Ballabrig for being a magnificent stamp of the old fashioned deep girthed Chaser that he is.

An incredible training record and an amazing horse as well.
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The amazing McCain family? A family that ritualistically sends its discards to Potters? Nothing amazing about them!!
 
Over2You said:
The amazing McCain family? A family that ritualistically sends its discards to Potters? Nothing amazing about them!!
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What a stupid thing to say - would rather they sent there "discards" to potters than leave them to an un-certain future!

Another person who clearly doesnt know how the racing industry works :rolleyes:
 
olop said:
What a stupid thing to say - would rather they sent there "discards" to potters than leave them to an un-certain future!

Another person who clearly doesnt know how the racing industry works :rolleyes:
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An uncertain future where they could very easily be given a wonderful home like mine? They do not give the poor creatures a chance of a second lease of life. I would much rather they be given the opportunity to be a well cared for and much loved family pet than a piece of meat.
 
Over2You said:
An uncertain future where they could very easily be given a wonderful home like mine? They do not give the poor creatures a chance of a second lease of life. I would much rather they be given the opportunity to be a well cared for and much loved family pet than a piece of meat.
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You are totally out of touch with reality, how many do you think go through Potters?
 
Over2You said:
An uncertain future where they could very easily be given a wonderful home like mine? They do not give the poor creatures a chance of a second lease of life. I would much rather they be given the opportunity to be a well cared for and much loved family pet than a piece of meat.
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Ah, so are we to assume then that Mr Potter has your number to let you know when he has some racehorses comming in for you to buy off him - or that you frequent the sales where many of these rejects go?

And if not you - then who exactly do you think is going to buy these horses? Joe Public? Because I don't exactly see people queing up for ex-racers, do you??
 
EAST KENT said:
How about acknowledging the amazing McCain family for training the winners of FIVE Grand Nationals,and recognising Ballabrig for being a magnificent stamp of the old fashioned deep girthed Chaser that he is.

An incredible training record and an amazing horse as well.
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Totally agree, I have always backed McCains horses, since the days of Red Rum, would have done quite well if I had staked more than £1:p. Anyone who thinks trainers don't care about their horses should have seen the pride on Gingers face when Red Rum was at many of his public appearances after hsi retirement.
 
Over2You said:
The amazing McCain family? A family that ritualistically sends its discards to Potters? Nothing amazing about them!!
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I would think it highly unlikely they send them all the way to Potters when Turners is just down the road! And if they do send them there, at least they are ensuring they don't end their days dumped in a field with insufficient food and shelter.
 
A couple of thoughts:
1.Horses do not run for love-
2. How, exactly do the runners qualify - some seemed pretty amateur to me
3. It looked awfully crowded at Becher's and I suspect some of the carnage there was due to horses getting in each other's way - at least in eventing horses go around one at a time.
Love & peace
 
rosiefronfelen said:
where do you suggest they go?some bloody bin end sales or what?
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I think Over2you lives in an unreal world. Far better for any unwanted horse to be put down rather than hawked around from pillar to post. To me that is being responsible.......there are far too many people these days who think "retiring" a horse by dumping it in a field is a good idea.
 
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