The Great "Wearing a hat" debate - Freedom of choice???????

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moneypit1

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I nearly always wear my hat when I sit on one of my horses. Because I WANT TO. However, there have been times when I haven't and in fact many years ago (1970's) I rarely wore my hat. The thing is, it is NOT law. It is up to the individual. Some could argue that getting on a horse in the first place is dangerous and and avoidable risk. So why the fuss? It is our choice on our own land and on our own horses. This may not be the fact in other situations. I agree it is the sensible and safe thing to do but it is down to our own discretion. Thank god we have some choices that are left to us, we are well informed and can make these decisions (unless we are minors of course). The same could be said about body protectors yet hardly anyone kicks off about these. I admit to NEVER wearing mine unless I go XC and have to and I expect many of the "hats on at all times" brigade don't either.
 
I wear mine all the time, I land on my head far too often to risk not doing so. With reference to the post below, personal choice is fine for adults, kids should always wear at hat.
 
I always wear my hat as i need to, i fractured my skull as a baby and have a massive dent as a result making my skull not as strong, so a tiny knock for me ends in a concussion, but on the whole i have nothing against people who ride without hats, it's their choice
 
Tbh i dont really care what people wear on there head, makes no difference to me but i also have no sympathy if they fall off and hurt themselves as it was bound to happen imho. I have always worn a hat and will continue to do so as iv fallen so many times on my head its unreal (if i hadnt had a hat on i probably wouldnt be here!!). I used to wear my BP all the time to but now only use it for xc. Couple of weeks ago some of the girls at the yard (11-12yr) were messing in the outdoor on one of there ponies, one in the saddle with a hat and one behind the saddle bootless and hatless galloping around like looneys!! And the first thing they said to me was dont tell my mum she'll kill me!! They thought they were right cool dudes with no hats
 
There is an accepted philosophy that underpins most health & safety law - that the sacrifice involved in a safety measure should be compared to the benefits it will achieve to decide whether or not it you do it. As you say this isn't subject to any laws but if it was, you'd have to say that wearing a hat doesn't cost a lot and isn't especially uncomfortable, so the sacrifice is small, but it might save your life, so it's obvious that you'd have to do it. Quite a lot of horse riders know people who have been badly hurt or even killed by head injuries sustained when riding (a lady I know was killed earlier this year) and are well aware that it's not just the person who has had the accident who is affected by it. This can provoke a sense of outrage when people ride without a hat - they seem to be taking an avoidable risk apparently for no good reason.

I think body protectors are not quite the same, the benefits of wearing one are less well established (some people argue they do more harm than good in some circumstances), plus they can be expensive and quite uncomfortable.
 
I think a major reason people get so cross is that we have a national health service in this country funded by the tax payer.

If you fall off without a hat, then what could have been a very minor injury can become catestrophic. The cost of the ambulance, the hospital, the treatment, equipment, long term care, disability aids, disability benefits, etc etc are all met by the tax payer
 
moneypit1 said:
I would personally agree but perhaps it would be 'safer' if kids were not allowed near horses at all. Get my drift?
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Perhaps it would be safer if kids stay indoors! I think you just have to take all reasonable steps to minimise serious injury. Wearing a hat isnt exactly an imposition. I hardly know I am wearing mine (unlike my BP). I just think Legs arms, collar bones can be fixed, brains cant.
 
flamehead said:
I dont see how it is freedom of choice - the people who pick up the pieces don't get the CHOICE.
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Actually nor do the relatives of people maimed or killed by car accidents or murders. Professionals do however, they get paid to do their job and should not discriminate. You will find in life that quite a lot is actually dependent on "choice" whether we know it or not at the time. We are not a military or communist state afterall.
 
Going about my day to day life, I try to minimise risk. I wait for the green man before I cross, I don't drive above the speed limit, I don't do drugs. Riding in a hat is just an extension of that, it's just the way I am.

I don't like to see people riding without a hat but I wouldn't comment on it, just as much as I wouldn't expect them to comment on my choice of wearing one.

I do think it shows a certain arrogance, an 'I'm such a fantastic rider I'll never fall off ' mind set. I hope for their families sake and those that have to witness it, that they don't do themselves a damage if they hit the deck.
 
moneypit1 said:
Actually nor do the relatives of people maimed or killed by car accidents or murders. Professionals do however, they get paid to do their job and should not discriminate. You will find in life that quite a lot is actually dependent on "choice" whether we know it or not at the time. We are not a military or communist state afterall.
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But murder is against the law. And there are regulations in place to minimise car accidents, speed limits, Mot's, seatbelts. If people continue to take silly risks, especialy where children are concerned I wouldnt be suprised if the government tried to take the 'choice' away.
 
Am still in the office, and am getting weary.

Freedom of choice, yes absolutely. However, when you are in a life support machine with your loved ones sitting with you, after a serious fall from a horse, and you werent wearing your hat because of your 'freedom of choice', will they support your 'freedom of choice'.
Somehow I doubt it. Do what you will, I dont actually care one way or another, but whatever you do, remember the consequences of your 'freedom of choice'.

By the way, you can slag me off all you want, I dont give a flying ******.
 
I think times are changing. More and more people wear hats and it is the norm now a days to see riders wearing hats. When I was young my friends and I loved our hats. They were so cool to wear and they were special so we kept them for best! So were really only taken out at events and hunts as we didnt want them to get damaged with normal daily riding. Ironic really as even if we did wear them daily the hats were made of cardboard and wouldnt have saved anyones head in a serious fall.

Research and the internet help tremendously with getting the message out there that it is safer to ride in a hat so in todays age the people who ride without hats are in the minority in Britain. It is a freedom of choice whether you wear one or not and part of me says it should remain like this. The government worms its way into so many parts of our lives that little is left to the individual to make decisions on. However the other part of me believes that this freedom should may be only be allowed to be a choice on private land. For riding on roads or in public places may be we should have the same restrictions as we do at shows.

Accidents are accidents no matter how they come about and NHS is there to treat people involved in accidents. We could complain about many things which if people did things differently may not end in accident or illness or death. But I think that is pointless. Many people smoke and drink when they know that they could be doing great harm to themselves but they dont stop doing it because they have freedom of choice.

I would never be rude about someone choosing to not ride in a hat. I see many people on H&H being incredibly vile to those who say they do not, calling them names and being aggressive and trying to push their own values on to them. that is wrong I believe and it does not serve any purpose other than to be rude.
 
Yes we are free to make all sorts of silly choices in our lives, but we also thankfully have the freedom of speech to comment on what we think are foolish choices made by others. I know the subject of hats comes up on here time after time, and the very committed 'free to pulverise my own brain' posters will almost certainly never change their mind, BUT I suspect there will be a few people lurking who may be influenced by what they have read and change their ways, and that might just save at least one life and prevent at least one family from much distress and tragedy.
 
TheoryX1 said:
Am still in the office, and am getting weary.

Freedom of choice, yes absolutely. However, when you are in a life support machine with your loved ones sitting with you, after a serious fall from a horse, and you werent wearing your hat because of your 'freedom of choice', will they support your 'freedom of choice'.
Somehow I doubt it. Do what you will, I dont actually care one way or another, but whatever you do, remember the consequences of your 'freedom of choice'.

By the way, you can slag me off all you want, I dont give a flying ******.
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Why would anyone want to "slag you off". Thats the whole point. It is your view and I respect that. One could argue that you should always wear a hat when handling horses, even on the ground. But again, that is your choice. Freedom of choice is so important. We can all do so much to minimise risk but the levels have to be realistic. We could all live in a sterile unit with minimal risk and artificial inseminatin! Extreme I know, but where do you draw the line? I do not mock you for your choice but your loved ones will ALWAYS support you, I know that much!
 
moneypit1 said:
Freedom of choice is so important. We can all do so much to minimise risk but the levels have to be realistic. We could all live in a sterile unit with minimal risk and artificial inseminatin! Extreme I know, but where do you draw the line?
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There are ways of drawing the line when it comes to risk, it just requires a bit of common sense and consideration - no big deal. Thing is that you don't need to do a quantitative risk assessment or cost-benefit analysis on this one. Leaving it to the forces of Darwinism & thinking that if people are stupid enough to ride without a hat they get what they deserve is all very well but it does seem sad and unecessary.
 
Spinal Tap said:
There are ways of drawing the line when it comes to risk, it just requires a bit of common sense and consideration - no big deal. Thing is that you don't need to do a quantitative risk assessment or cost-benefit analysis on this one. Leaving it to the forces of Darwinism & thinking that if people are stupid enough to ride without a hat they get what they deserve is all very well but it does seem sad and unecessary.
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Says who? And what about lungeing and working with horses on the ground. What about the top showjumpers who do not wear hats unless competing. It is complete *&*%&£$, when was the risk assessment done? Where are the published results? We all have the ability to assess risk, albeit in our own way that is unique to us. We react on that. Person one will think that getting a horse in from the field requires head gear and body armour, person two thinks that sj up to 3ft needs the same. Be realistic. We are all individuals with separate needs. There will always be the wild card.
 
Yes Moneypit, where do we draw the line? Take it one step further, how many vets and farriers get injured? Farriers often suffer head, face and hand injuries but we dont tell them they are stupid and obviously have no brains worth saving. Should we have laws to ensure farriers be wearing american football helmet type of contraptions on their head and padded ski gloves to protect their hands? Should vets be legally bound to wear safety hats and body protectors when dealing with horses?
 
I always wear a hat...don't see why anyone wouldn't! But then I don't get why people don't use reflective and hi viz on the roads either. Maybe I lack imagination and am too compliant ;) Oh, or maybe it's because I want to ride another day!

Incidentally while reading my insurance policy earlier I saw that they won't pay out if you are injured whilst mounted and not wearing a hat.
 
Who is your insurance company Persephone? I have read this a lot on H&H but none of the insurance companies I have ever used have anything about riding with or without a hat.
 
Thing is, we all wear seatbelts when in our cars, to guard ourselves against injury in case of an accident.
Motorcyclists all wear helmets when riding motorbikes, to guard themselves against injury in case of an accident.
So why dont people wear hats when riding their horses , to guard themselves as above?
There seems to be so many valid reason to wear a hat when riding, but there doesnt seem to be too many valid reasons not to. Other than it might mess up a hairstyle or make a head hot!
 
jaypeebee said:
Who is your insurance company Persephone? I have read this a lot on H&H but none of the insurance companies I have ever used have anything about riding with or without a hat.
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Petplan! extract below

4. If you are not wearing approved protective headgear manufactured to BSEN1384, EN1384, PAS015,
ASTMF1163 standard, carrying the BSI kitemark or SEI certified at the time of the accident, we will not
pay any amount resulting from a head injury.

ETS doesn't say anything about being mounted either! Sorry ignore that, it does say when RIDING.
 
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People have the right to do what they want. I have a right to think they are morons if they don't wear a hat ;) :D

In all seriousness though, I just don't know why you wouldn't wear one. Part of me thinks it's the individuals choice, but then what about their family, friends, the people they'd be dependant on if they had an accident? And since breaking my collar bone and having the bone nearly pop out of the skin, I always wear my BP too. There's a risk, and there's an option to prevent it. I'll personally take the option thanks!
 
Magicmillbrook said:
personal choice is fine for adults, kids should always wear a hat.
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MungoMadness said:
Part of me thinks it's the individuals choice, but then what about their family, friends, the people they'd be dependant on if they had an accident?
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Totally second these points.

I personally always wear my hat. I don't get why people would not wear a hat at all times riding but its their choice at the end of the day
 
I'm not really bothered if people wear hats or not, personally i always have done and always will do as i am a mum and owe it to my little girl and hubby to do all i can to minimise the chances of me coming to harm. I am also very strict with my daughter who is 7 and a bit of a dare devil ...she does PC, showjumping, gallops with her friend out hacking, and has loads of fun but ALWAYS in a hat and body protector.

If people want to take their chances and ride hatless thats up to them. As long as i know my daughter and i wear our hats i'm really not that interested!!
 
I dont always take the safety measures that i should to be honest.

I only wear a hat for riding, not for anything else, never have done and probably never will do.

A friend had a nasty accident and hurt her head very badly and she does get on at me for not wearing a hat.

I try not to ride without a hat but I am guilty of being lazy and popping on bareback to walk mines down to the fields.

Nikki xxx
 
People can have a choice but it should be an informed choice. There are many that people have accidents and die each year from horses that are not published anywhere.

I think the BHS show hold the figures so we can all know the risks.

Top riders should set an example.
 
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