The hack from Hell

goldengirl26 said:
Im trying to anticipate a stop, then i find myself kicking and flapping almost constantly and then stop cuz thats not good riding and then we're back to square one.
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Loads of good advice given above so I won't repeat it. But in reference to worrying about good riding - don't. He is basically having you on and there are times when you need to forget what you look like and be bloody minded about making him go where you want him to go. Pony club kick him, spin him, smack him, whatever (as long as it doesn't reach cruelty level obviously!), but damn well make him go where you want him to. A few times of that and it'll be like taking candy off a baby. Good luck. :)
 
May have to get myself a schooling whip, ill try the lungeing in circles too (as we have been doing lungeing to teach him voice commands anyway) and they are all very quiet lane's we go down.[/QUOTE]

Don't get one, get two, one in each hand, nice and long that can enforce your leg aids at the same time without taking hands off the reins
 
Sounds very much like the issues I've had with the girl I share. She came to us at 7/8 years old but very green, not ridden much over the last 18 months because "she was nappy". I have been riding for 23 years, but on mainly one horse who I'd got so used to, so it was quick a change to ride a green youngster. We had many spins round and feet planting. We checked all sorts of things. We found her bridle wasn't fitting too well and she hated her bit (she's a cob and has a very thick tongue - so is now ridden in a straight, soft bit) so these things helped. However the big break came when her owner rode her out determined that she wouldn't stand for nonsense and was strong and clear in her instructions. She then explained to me, and I became much stronger too. I think we were afraid of hurting her. I think the issue was that she was very nervous, and needed a confident rider to tell her clearly what was expected - and to give her confidence. She's not completely there yet, but is so much better and is becoming a real pleasure to ride.
 
It's a pain isn't it. He knows to know you mean it when you want him to go forward and he also needs to have trust in you. You need to be confident and believe you can get off the yard and hack out without any napping. Have you tried a pony club kick and a loud 'get on' or a growl. I know the growling sounds weird but worked for a friends horse a few years ago.

Other option is to hack out with a good instructor on foot.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll get there :)
 
jemima*askin said:
What happens if you turn him round and make him walk backwards?
What happens if you hit him, he bucks and you whack him again harder to tell him not to buck?
Are your hacks on grass or on the road? If your hacks are somewhere that will allow it put a headcollar on under his bridle, choose a longish lead rope and attach it to the ring of the headcollar and then round his neck. Carry a long dressage whip. When he stops, get off him, twist the reins together, put the throatlash through them, undo the lead rope and make him walk and trot round you in small circles, don't get cross, just keep pushing him on as though you are bored and could stand there all day. Give him a good ten minutes making him work. Then get back on and continue. As soon as he stops he goes back on his small circle again. It will take forever to get round your hack the first time, he'll have wised up a bit the second time but still probably push his luck and hopefully by the third time he'll try it once and decide that it's far too much like hard work.

Do you do round routes or do you go out and back the same way?
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I would expect this method to bring you good results, its certainly the one I would be trying if in your shoes.
 
We had a pony that could be like this though he loved hacking - it was flat schooling he hated. A tap with a short whip to get him moving would elicit a buck but if you just carried a schooling whip he would be a forward going joy to school. Easier to give a tap without taking your hands off the reins, so might be worth trying.
 
Auslander said:
You could also try a bit with full cheeks - they make it easier for you to steer and harder for him to go where you don't want him to.
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This. It made all the difference with my nappy new forest.

Also, make sure that you're not nagging him when he does give you forwards. Often it's all in the timing, and you need to be quick enough to get after them when you feel a nap brewing, but you also need to be quick enough to back off when they do offer forwards. Practice how that feels in the school - lots of transitions inc halt to trot.
 
I know some people have said other routes won't help but if you can find a way out of the yard that's not directly onto a main road than you might feel more confident to have the argument, it will also stop you having to halt on the way out which it sounds like gives him an excuse to start. If you literally can get after him and leave the yard (safely) in trot it may help. And like the others have said, forget about looking pretty or riding as you would in the school to an extent. Pony club kick, when he tries to turn his head use the leg on the side he is turning to, you might find yourself talking your hand off the rein, using your whip and then quickly grabbing the rein to stop him turning, whatever works. Essentially, I like the phrase a previous poster used get a bit "agricultural", the pony may be loving etc. but with the hacking it sounds like he is taking the mick, he's a typical pony and will try every trick in the book. Be confident, get after him, kick, shout, use your whip ( or one schooling whip on each side) - if he's anything like my pony you will have an almighty argument a couple of times but then you'll be off and running, you just have to get through it. When my pony was young I once spent 25 minutes getting him past a round bale of hay in a gateway; fortunately it was a quiet road, we went up, down, backwards, spun round, legged it in the opposite direction, walked backwards etc it wasn't pretty but in the end he went past and it was a massive breakthrough and he was never quite so bad ever again but I had to win or it would have ended up becoming a huge issue. Essentially you need an attitude that says I am going to win, however long it takes and whatever I need to to, get through that once or twice and it will get easier.
 
My friend had a pony that was just the same as this. She bought him as a 2 year old from a well known breeder so no reason to the behaviour that we knew of. I backed him and had no issues at all in the school but he would not hack out alone. He wasn't scared, or nervous and would show no reaction whatsoever to any form of encouragement. On one occasion we got him onto the road in front of the yard and then he stopped even with me physically stood behind him pushing he would not move. She was a very experienced horsewoman but try as she might nothing worked unless she lead him half way and got on when they turned for home in which case he would unsurprisingly be fine. He was a 14hh New Forest who would be 13 now... the pony in question isn't bay with a name beginning with "M" by any chance it is?
 
I fully agree with the backing up or turning small circles as suggested by a few on here. No fuss, no getting angry, just "OK, you won't go forwards, so you'll go backwards/circle then!"

I think I'd also look at his bit. Radical perhaps, but I had one that did this, and I tried all the things you have done, as well as the backing/circling. He used to spin for home, out into traffic, as well as planting. The turning point was a leap of faith and going bitless. He was a different horse. He'd never head shaken, chewed the bit, or showed any sign of being unhappy in his mouth, but would put his head on his chest an ignore it if it suited him (bendy neck!). I went from curb to snaffle (improvement) then from snaffle to Dr Cook. Total cure of all napping/spinning instantly. You never know!
 
gosh don't worry about flapping if it works! It isn't bad riding if it works and it's not doing him any harm. I'd also definitely get yourself a schooling whip or two and a good growl and do anything but let him go home (forwards/backwards/circles).
 
Just one thing that I've picked up on - does he need his "large hard feed"? Most natives will do very well on hay alone, especially if they are not in hard work.
 
Mine did this when he came back into work (he was a treasure not). It took me 90 mins to get off the yard at one point and even then he would divert off to where he wanted not where I wanted - including me turning him into gates/fences/walls and then getting stuck as the stubborn ***** wouldn't move the way I wanted him to. Top tips are sit up, use your legs like you mean it and I also used to whip whop my reins on his neck to make him move as he would ignore a schooling whip or kick out - practice one handed on the way home if you can't school perhaps?

Another thing to try with assistance is to long line and get him used to voice commands and make him go forward, it might give you some confidence too? If he is naughty on the lunge it might be worth using two lines rather than one as you can have a bit more control- again a lesson with an instructor or experienced friend would be worth their weight in gold.

The only other thing I tried which worked is not to walk out on a hack and to make them trot and send them really forward instead of walk - it was the only way I could get my dearest horse to get the idea in the end, sometimes if you give them something to think about/do they stop being prats

Good luck and it really is worth having an hour with someone even if it confirms you're doing all you can in the right way :)
 
Try an reins in one hand plastic bottle with couple of stones in "rattle bottle" everytime he plants shake it until he moves forward. Just make sure you check he is ok with it at first in a school environment so he doesn't bolt away. Also whip *** whip on intelligent horsemanship website couple of flicks either side over neck to move him on maybe an idea. I have tried both methods on different horses and have had good results the key is consistency and get to the point they only need an occassional reminders.
 
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