the hard decision!

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alicei91

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if any of you have read my post on navicular you will know what is going on with my mare atm. she is diagnosed with navic currently sound alot of people are saying breed from her alot are saying put her to sleep, im fast running out of money and feel im being selfish wanting to put her to sleep but i just dont know what to do with her any ideas of advice.
 
Actually I think breeding her would be more selfish. Navicular is painful. If you have never suffered chronic pain then you can't begin to comprehend how bad it can make you feel, and at least humans can understand and rationalize pain, an animal can't. There have been many times I have wished myself 6 feet under. Listen to people who know what they are talking about, not your yard buddies and above all don't let emotion cloud your judgement. It IS hard, I know, I had to make it recently myself and my old girl is just seeing out her final summer. Several people have tried to change my mind, including the YO, but I know I'm doing the right thing by her.
 
yes i know shes going to go downhill as i cant keep paying out for treatment its just so hard to say right enough is enough when she still seems like her normal self i just wish in some respects she go extremely lame so i can have an easier decision!
 
Hopefully the barefoot/unshod experts will see this post as many navicular horses are helped (and continue as ridden horses) by having their shoes removed and a low sugar, high fibre diet.
 
Taking her shoes off isn't an expensive option though surely? I know that getting the diet right can be tricky, but then again a bag of molasses free chaff isn't really going to be that different to buy when compared to a bag of molassed chaff?

There are some very knowlegable people on here who will hopefully give you some advice.
 
In my opinion it would be completely indefensible to put your mare to sleep without trying to find out what will happen if you take off her shoes. It's a no cost option, cheaper than shoeing.

Check my other posts, I'm usually the person saying "put it to sleep".

Not in your case. If you are really that fed up with her give her away to someone who will try a barefoot rehab on her. Advertise her on the barefoot forum phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org


ps I have given you my advice on your other thread, as have a number of other people.
 
cptrayes said:
In my opinion it would be completely indefensible to put your mare to sleep without trying to find out what will happen if you take off her shoes. It's a no cost option, cheaper than shoeing.

Check my other posts, I'm usually the person saying "put it to sleep".

Not in your case. If you are really that fed up with her give her away to someone who will try a barefoot rehab on her.
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i am not fed up of her at all she is a beautiful horse who deserves the best life she can... i live in lincoln and do not know of any barefoot trimmers that will do her good.... if you know of anyone that would rehome her then that would be an option for me to consider but unfortunately i dont know of anyone who wants a horse with navicular even one as nice as her!
 
alicei91 said:
i am not fed up of her at all she is a beautiful horse who deserves the best life she can... i live in lincoln and do not know of any barefoot trimmers that will do her good.... if you know of anyone that would rehome her then that would be an option for me to consider but unfortunately i dont know of anyone who wants a horse with navicular even one as nice as her!
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My sister is a barefoot trimmer. I am sure she would know someone good in your area. Let me know if you want me to ask her.
 
alicei91 said:
i am not fed up of her at all she is a beautiful horse who deserves the best life she can... i live in lincoln and do not know of any barefoot trimmers that will do her good.... if you know of anyone that would rehome her then that would be an option for me to consider but unfortunately i dont know of anyone who wants a horse with navicular even one as nice as her!
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I really feel for you and the situation you are in with this horse. It is shamefull that the 'professionals' have taken so much of your money with their futile attempts at helping your horse. So many ordinary folk are now aware of what can be done for a horse with navicular it is unbelievable that any vet can claim ignorance.

I see from other posts you have been told about Rockley.

Have a read of the Unfettered Foot by Tomas G. Teskey, DVMa. This bloke is brilliant, and has spectacular results.

Any good barefoot trimmer can sort out the diet and other things which will help your mare, at very little cost.
 
I think it would be wrong to breed from her. It makes me angry that this seems like the 'answer' to every mare owners prayers, that when their mare is no longer serviceable they think they will breed a foal from her, without taking into account age, money, conformation, tempament, etc, etc.

There are so many unwanted foals out there, that unless your mare had fantastic blood lines don't even consider it.

You could always let her go to the blood bank in Milton Keynes. They let horses live out in huge herds, outdoors in the summer and in during the winter in huge barns with add lib hay. The horses are all roughed off prior to going, so no rugs or hard feed, and shoes are taken off. Once a month (or whatever the criteria is) each horse is brought in for a blood transfusion which takes approx 20 mins. They are happy to come in for this as they receive a token feed as a 'thank you'.

My friend took her horse there and although there are certain criteria, i.e. build and tempament of animal and it has to be able to live the remainder of its life drug free, and you have to sign over to them (I believe they go to an abbatoir when they get too old to give blood) it is well worth serious thought. I would consider it for my horse, as I think if he could have five or ten years of happy retirement in the field it would be worth it. My friend was very impressed with the professionalism of the place. Unfortunately she wouldn't talk about it on a forum such as this as she has spoken of this before on this forum and got so badly slated by people and was very upset.
 
applecart14 said:
I think it would be wrong to breed from her. It makes me angry that this seems like the 'answer' to every mare owners prayers, that when their mare is no longer serviceable they think they will breed a foal from her, without taking into account age, money, conformation, tempament, etc, etc.

There are so many unwanted foals out there, that unless your mare had fantastic blood lines don't even consider it.

You could always let her go to the blood bank in Milton Keynes. They let horses live out in huge herds, outdoors in the summer and in during the winter in huge barns with add lib hay. The horses are all roughed off prior to going, so no rugs or hard feed, and shoes are taken off. Once a month (or whatever the criteria is) each horse is brought in for a blood transfusion which takes approx 20 mins. They are happy to come in for this as they receive a token feed as a 'thank you'.

My friend took her horse there and although there are certain criteria, i.e. build and tempament of animal and it has to be able to live the remainder of its life drug free, and you have to sign over to them (I believe they go to an abbatoir when they get too old to give blood) it is well worth serious thought. I would consider it for my horse, as I think if he could have five or ten years of happy retirement in the field it would be worth it. My friend was very impressed with the professionalism of the place. Unfortunately she wouldn't talk about it on a forum such as this as she has spoken of this before on this forum and got so badly slated by people and was very upset.
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breeding from this mare was always an option as her conformation is excellent and her breeding is good her temperament is outstanding for a tb and she is one of the sweetest most talented mares i know so dont just presume i want to breed from her because its the only option this mare was to be kept for life and had huge potential to go on and she is only 10yrs old i am not a typical 'lets resort to breeding' person i know damn well there are unwanted foals out there. If she didnt have good conformation and temperament i wouldnt have bought her in the first place.
I dont think i would even consider sending her to a blood bank as she that doesnt sound like an idea life for her and i think it would be unfair on her nature to do that she is a people person and a very gentle natured mare....
 
alicei91 said:
It's not proven
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My undertanding was that it is proven in Warmbloods, but that it may not have been tested in other breeds. Until it is proven as far as possible that it is NOT heritable, I agree that you should not breed from her.
 
alicei91 said:
if any of you have read my post on navicular you will know what is going on with my mare atm. she is diagnosed with navic currently sound alot of people are saying breed from her alot are saying put her to sleep, im fast running out of money and feel im being selfish wanting to put her to sleep but i just dont know what to do with her any ideas of advice.
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It is my emphasis in your post.

If your mare is sound, why is there any question whatsoever of putting her to sleep?
 
Because she is on off with her soundness... My vet has told me that navicular has been researched and nothing has actually been proven I then spoke to a vet specialised in breeding and he said its very possible it is but if you can research down the mares and stallions lines and nothing is there all should be ok... So god knows if I was a millionaire I'd pay for it to be researched like crazy!
 
Pale Rider said:
I really feel for you and the situation you are in with this horse. It is shamefull that the 'professionals' have taken so much of your money with their futile attempts at helping your horse. So many ordinary folk are now aware of what can be done for a horse with navicular it is unbelievable that any vet can claim ignorance.

I see from other posts you have been told about Rockley.

Have a read of the Unfettered Foot by Tomas G. Teskey, DVMa. This bloke is brilliant, and has spectacular results.

Any good barefoot trimmer can sort out the diet and other things which will help your mare, at very little cost.
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Anyone can sort out the diet it's simple , OP needs a copy of feet first by Nic Barker that is a great book for anyone thinking of trying BF .
I do use a trimmer rather than a farrier on my BF horses and they are a great source of advice but not necessary in all cases.
OP transition to no shoes may help your horse and the costs are no more in fact less in my experiance than having a shod horse , it's worth a try rather than PTS iT takes time and imput from the owner but the principles are simple .
 
I think I've already said my mare was diagnosed with navic last year. Prior to this she always had front shoes on and nothing has changed apart from her now also having small heel wedges. Farrier charges me about a fiver more so no major extra cost. She is sound, I no longer really work her like I did before the diagnosis although, she is hacked out 4-5 times a week. I could do more with her but I'm just grateful she is doing well and want to keep her that way for as long as possible. If things change I would definately try barefoot before thinking about PTS.

Apart from the treatment your mare's already had why will there be ongoing costs or is it that you're still trying to pay off recent vet bills?

Personally, I wouldn't breed from her because she'll carry more weight, meaning more pressure on her feet.
 
She's been on cosequin at 200 a 700g tub and navilox and it's £90 every 6weeks for her shoes. Then there follow up examinations that the vets want to do and chiropractor/physio
 
alicei91 said:
She's been on cosequin at 200 a 700g tub and navilox and it's £90 every 6weeks for her shoes. Then there follow up examinations that the vets want to do and chiropractor/physio
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My girl isn't on any medication so can only think your horse was very lame before being diagnosed?

Does she have other issues if they are planning follow up examinations and she needs chiro/physio? Vet not seen my girl since diagnosis apart from annual routine stuff and I've always had a McTimoney person treat her twice a year and I'm still doing the same.

Presume you were paying for shoes before navic so no real difference unless she's having remedial shoeing which is costing you more.

I know money can be a worry but if your vets have not explained fully what they are doing and why then I'd be asking quesstions.
 
Sounds like your vet is doing far better out of this then you and your lovely girl are. Why not tell your vet you have no money left at all and ask what your options are as I can't see them advising to pts a horse that is only on off lame ATM....navicular is not a death sentence and you can continue to enjoy your horse for a few years more. My navicular horse doesn't have any of those prescription supplements, he did but then I realised they were pointless for us as I was doing everything else wrong with diet and grazing ( I won't mention shoeing). On another note I cant see you having a problem with someone offering to rehab her if you gift her to them with vet info etc. anyway hope it works out for you I have already said on another post:)
 
Nothing else I wrong with her I presume they just want to see progression and she's gone from normal fronts at 35 to heart bars at 90 it's shocking! I've taken her off the cosequin and navilox as I can't afford that but I'm definitely thinking about barefoot diet change ect it's just you hear what so many people say and you start to question I ur doing the right thing I guess!
 
I've had people say to me that if there horse was diagnosed they would PTS but she's my horse and while she's sound and happy that's not an option I'd consider. Also what's right for one horse and owner may not be right for another so, if you are getting advice from people you've not asked personally, I'd ignore/

£90 sounds excessive to me for 2 shoes even for heart bars :eek: If you want to keep her in shoes then maybe look for another farrier or ask your farrier about other options and why heart bars are so expensive. Did your vet recommend them?

Barefoot is also an option and I think someone has offered to ask her sister about a trimmer in your area so worth considering.

Good luck :)
 
This would be a no brainer for me, shoes off, monitor diet and get the horse moving. If after a decent period of time there is no improvement or she worsens then pts.

No matter how well bred she is I wouldn't breed from her as I don't believe it would be fair on the mare.
 
touchstone said:
This would be a no brainer for me, shoes off, monitor diet and get the horse moving. If after a decent period of time there is no improvement or she worsens then pts.

No matter how well bred she is I wouldn't breed from her as I don't believe it would be fair on the mare.
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Totally agree.

As for the cosequin, why not stop that and use bute instead?
 
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