The "How Endurance works, for Eventers!" thread!

spookypony

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 November 2008
Messages
7,557
Location
Austria
Visit site
...not just Eventers, obviously, but anyone else who's interested. HotToTrot's comment got me thinking, that when we write our reports (in any discipline) it can be difficult to know how much to repeat oneself, regarding specifics of the discipline. The people in the "normal" three (BE, BS, BD) and possibly in Showing can usually assume that their audience isn't completely clueless, but some of the other disciplines are just very different: for example, I have no idea how Horseball works, other than that it involves a ball, and presumably goals of some kind!

So here's a wee thread to de-mystify Endurance! :)

In the British Isles, there are no less than three governing bodies for Endurance: EGB (Endurance Great Britain), SERC (Scottish Endurance Riding Club) and ILDRA (Irish Long Distance Riding Association). There's also some offshoots...

Types of ride:

The names of the type of ride differ among countries, but in general in the UK, there are three types: non-competitive or pleasure rides, competitive rides that aren't races, and race rides. FEI rides are race rides. At FEI, 1* generally corresponds to 80k rides, 2** to 120k rides, and 3*** to 160k rides, though there are nuances here, such as multi-day rides.

At a non-competitive ride, the goal is to finish inside a certain time-frame (generally slower than a competitive one). In Scotland, these range from 15k to 29k.

At a normal competitive ride, you're competing against yourself: you're trying to get your horse in in a certain time-frame, in the best condition that you can. So there's no limit to the number of awards that can be issued to horses in any class. In Scotland, these range from 30k to 160k.

At race rides, it's the first past the post that wins, assuming the horse passes the vetting. In Scotland, these range from 60k to 160k.

Vet Gates:

Rides above a certain length (50k, in Scotland) are divided into sections, punctuated by "vet gates". When you finish a section or loop, the clock keeps ticking until you present your horse to the vet (generally, by alerting the vet steward that you're ready to do so, in case there's a line of waiting horses). The vet checks a bunch of metabolic things, such as hydration levels and gut sounds, and takes a heart rate. Then you trot up, and exactly one minute later, the vet takes a second heart rate. This is called the "cardiac recovery index", and the goal is to have 64 bpm or less on both heart rates (60 in some countries, I think). If you fail on heart rate at first presentation, you have another chance to re-present, but the clock continues for that time.

Assuming you pass, you then enter a hold time (here, it's usually 40 minutes, though this can vary), before your clock starts again. This hold time is used for eating and resting. Endurance riding quickly teaches you to re-evaluate assumptions about feeding and watering before and/or during work!

Levels of competition:

I'll comment only on Scotland and England/Wales here, as I don't know the other systems well enough.

In Scotland, you qualify through 3 basic levels: Bronze Thistle, Silver Thistle, and Gold Thistle.

Bronze involves 2 rides of 30 or 40k, and 1 ride of 50k. For all of these, you have to nominate (and stick to) a particular Speed Category. (SC3 is 9.5--10.99 kph, SC2 is 11--12.99 kph, and SC1 is 13 kph or faster.) It doesn't matter which one you nominate, but you have to stick to it. The idea is to teach you to pace yourself and your horse.

Silver involves 2 rides of 60k, and 1 ride of 80k, all to be ridden at least at 11 kph.

Gold involves either 2 rides of 80k at 11+ kph, or one ride of 80k at 13+ kph. This difference allows horses that are not naturally as fast as others a way to qualify, and it gives some allowance for the terrain in Scotland, which often makes really fast rides impossible or inadvisable.

In England, there's Novice, Open, and Advanced levels. To advance to Open, a horse has to complete 3 rides of 30--50km (+/- 5%), and to advance to Advanced, a horse has to complete 2 rides of 65--80km (+/- 5%). Open horses are eligible to do 1-day rides up to 90km, and Advanced are eligible to do 1-day rides up to 160km. (EstherYoung will hopefully correct me if I mess any of this up!)

The Scottish system is more complicated than the English, and generally takes longer. Under the English system, a combination could theoretically get to Advanced in 5 rides (though that would be pretty silly). For example, under the Scottish system, the Spooky Pony still hasn't achieved his Silver Thistle, because his successful 80k was too slow to count for his Silver Thistle Final. This means that he's still subject to Silver series entry limitations: I couldn't enter him in a 1-day class longer than an 80k class. Under the English system, he'd be an Advanced horse, and I could theoretically enter him for a 1-day 160k class---though I'd be insane to do so!

Miscellaneous:

During longer rides, many riders have crews, who meet them on course at various intervals to offer water for cooling the horse ("sloshes"), water and/or feed and/or strange electrolyte concoctions for the horse to consume, and the same (except with less Speedibeet involved) for the rider. Taking care of the rider is very important! Crewing can be very important especially on very hot or difficult rides, and can mean the difference between success, or lack thereof.

There's no specific requirements re. tack, though when a horse is going for that long, fit and comfort are paramount. Many endurance riders favour brightly-coloured biothane bridles, breastplates, and the like, which are easily washed, come apart into bit/headcollar easily (important for saving time at vet gates), and can be seen easily by the crew. There's a huge variety of saddles in use, from normal GPs to very specialised, minimalistic endurance models.

The big "bucket list" rides of the world include the Tevis Cup (US), the Quilty (Aus), and the Golden Horseshoe (sadly possibly extinct). Last year, a new Scottish "Cairngorm 100 (miles)" was run for the first time, in hopes to offer another candidate.

Endurance riders are often quite experimental, and many are at the vanguard of the barefoot performance movement. In recent years, statistics are beginning to show a clear advantage of booted horses over conventionally-shod in one of the world's toughest rides, the Tevis Cup. Even in the conservative UK, unshod horses are beginning to make their presence felt. Thankfully, hoof boots also come in a huge variety of colours, so one can play matchy-matchy with the biothane bridles! :D

Hope this helps the confused a little! :) I've deliberately simplified a bit/left out some complicated bits, so if anyone wants to add or amend stuff, please feel free! :)
 
Wow, that's so interesting, thank you :)

So, is it possible to compete alone then or do you really need supporters with you?
 
You've got the EGB qualifications right - although at least one of the 65-80s needs to be an 80. They are a minimum - in reality the old fashioned wisdom is that it takes at least four years to "make" an endurance horse.

For EGB graded rides, your horse is given a grade at the end which is worked out on your speed and pulse, according to these tables: http://endurancegb.co.uk/main/Rules/Grading-Tables
 
You can probably do the shorter rides on your own, but the longer ones not so. I did one endurance ride, and that was enough for me! I got some strange looks at the end vetting when I didn't have anyone with me, the vet was grumpy with me, and it wasn't the best experience I've ever had!
 
Crews do make things easier, and some rides will require them, but it is perfectly possible on your own. At the rides we run, we make sure there are water and sloshes available on course for crewless riders. Alternatively you can hide yourself some crewing utensils out on course. I've done 65km crewless - it was fine, you just need to ride appropriately.
 
Having just talked to my friend in NZ who does endurance, I would have to add "always check the weather"
Feelling a bit 'flu-ey', she had a great ride (and horse when brilliantly) except the continuous rain was like wind-driven sleet and she didn't have a coat of any kind.
So the 'bit' flu-ey is now a lot worse!!
She still loves it though.
 
You can probably do the shorter rides on your own, but the longer ones not so. I did one endurance ride, and that was enough for me! I got some strange looks at the end vetting when I didn't have anyone with me, the vet was grumpy with me, and it wasn't the best experience I've ever had!

That's really unfortunate; usually it's a very friendly sport! I think by now, I'd be happy to try the right 50 or 60 without crew, especially if there were "static sloshes" (what EstherYoung describes), but generally, there's no need to have someone along for a 30 or 40k (again, there are exceptions).
 
Really interesting OP, thanks for sharing. How do you get the horses to take on the electrolytes? Is that where the speedibeet comes in?
 
Really interesting OP, thanks for sharing. How do you get the horses to take on the electrolytes? Is that where the speedibeet comes in?

There are varying ways. Some people offer several buckets of water and of "Speedibeet tea" (really really sloppy Speedibeet) or similar, with or without electrolytes, and let the horse choose. Some feed the electrolytes via syringe when they think the horse needs them. Some put them in the feeds at the vet gates.

At the moment, if I have crew, they are carrying plain water, and Speedibeet tea with apple juice and electrolytes. At the vet gates, the pony has a choice of water or Speedibeet tea, and I put some electrolytes in the feed.

He usually won't drink until after 30k anyway, unless it's very warm out. I'm told this is fairly normal.
 
Very interesting, although we discovered some tack rules at a pleasure ride we went to for fun. I ride mine in company in a rubber Pelham and with roller ball spurs(good line in napping and running backwards) and was asked to swap to a snaffle and remove spurs. Is this common!?
 
Very interesting, although we discovered some tack rules at a pleasure ride we went to for fun. I ride mine in company in a rubber Pelham and with roller ball spurs(good line in napping and running backwards) and was asked to swap to a snaffle and remove spurs. Is this common!?

A Pelham is fine but spurs aren't allowed.
 
Whips and spurs are not permitted under FEI rules, and are not allowed under NZ rules either.

I rode alone a lot and did my own thing on rides up to 100 km. Anything over that and I would be asking someone to strap for me, it just gets a bit tiring and you tend to start making mistakes.

And yes, definitely check the weather and be prepared for anything!
 
Whips and spurs are not permitted under FEI rules, and are not allowed under NZ rules either.

I rode alone a lot and did my own thing on rides up to 100 km. Anything over that and I would be asking someone to strap for me, it just gets a bit tiring and you tend to start making mistakes.

And yes, definitely check the weather and be prepared for anything!

Yes, forgot to mention that! In Scotland, you can't take a crop on the last loop of a race ride, and spurs are never allowed. Draw reins and the like are also not allowed, although martingales are fine. There's no specific bit restrictions that I know of. The rules state that a saddle and bridle must be worn; a few years ago, there was a faff over someone who rode in a Dually, but I think it was reasoned that "bridle" was an imprecise enough definition that it would be covered (and said person hadn't actually caused any problems).

I've heard recently that in Australia, rides tend to have what we would call "static crews", i.e. sloshes/water/food provided for everyone on course at checkpoints, and riders' individual crews not allowed out on course. I think a large amount of the differences in crewing might be due to what is practical given the local geography and/or prevailing weather.
 
Australian rides have checkpoints every 10-15km or so, where you need to make sure your number is recorded, thus ensuring that everyone did the course as marked. These checkpoints have drinking and strapping water and lucerne hay (usually) plus carrots for the horses. We ride in a very different climate of course so there's often not a lot of water available elsewhere on track, and at some times of year not a lot of grass for picking at. Checkpoints are great for a bit of a wee break (the people manning them get very used to being asked to hold a horse while the rider nips off into the woods!) and a cool down for the ponies. Riders crews are NOT allowed on track as that qualifies as outside assistance and can get you disqualified. If you have an issue (tack breaks, shoe lost) you can get outside help to fix it with the approval of the chief steward. If you get lost you also have to have chief steward approval to get help getting back on track.
To qualify, all horses and riders must do at least 2 rides of 40 - 60km, at no more than 14 km/hr. Then three 80km rides at the same maximum speed. After that they are an open horse/rider and can go as fast as they like. A Novice rider on an Open horse still has to go at Novice speed, as does a Novice horse with an Open rider.
Rides are generally clover leaf shape, with all vet checks and holds at the same ride base, although we do have some "point to point" rides which are great fun.
Do the UK guys carry a tracking chip or something to make sure you did the full distance?
 
Ownedbyjoe, we don't have tracking chips, other than at some FEI rides. We're reliant on people passing through the checkpoints and stewards in the right order to check that they've done the full route. As a ride organiser I normally stick checkpoints or stewards at the furthest points and/or where routes diverge and/or where there could be possible shortcuts.
 
Interesting hearing more about the differences in Australia! NZJenny, are NZ rides run similarly to Aussie ones, or does it work yet differently?

What types of terrain do most of your rides take place over? Obviously, Australia is an enormous place, but are there particular areas where there are a lot of rides?

Scotland by comparison is pretty tiny and densely settled. In our branch, many of the rides are very hilly, and run over forestry tracks that can be hard and stony (granite, around here). At the same time, we have loads of mud! There's often a fair amount of road work. Our rides tend not to be very fast, as a result of the terrain. So while a horse qualifying for Bronze could technically go faster than 14kph, it's far more normal to be somewhere around 11kph.

The differences re. crewing are really interesting too! Our routes often intersect with or briefly follow roads, so there are usually several good places for individual crews to meet a rider with sloshes and water/feed. Riders generally don't dismount, but try to get through the crewing as efficiently as possible.

Although most of the top horses here are Arabs, the large number of shorter distances and pleasure rides encourage all different sorts to join, so we have a large variety of different types and breeds competing. The longer-distance horses do include some of these: I can think of an IDx, Anglo-Arabs, an Exmoor or two, a Highland, a Lipi-x (my mare's little brother, of all things) and of course a few Heinz 57 types! The hills mean that Natives can do quite well, as can Native x Arab. One of our area's top horses is Arab x Highland x TB. She's quite fast, but very sturdy over the terrain.
 
Really interesting - I have a question - sorry if it has been covered :o

For timings/speeds are you allowed a stop watch or the like? Or is that the skill - knowing the speed you are travelling? How are you penalised for going slower than your chosen category - or is it just that you can't progress to the next level?

So many things I am interested to know :)
 
You're allowed a stop watch and/or a GPS, but with experience you get to feel how fast you're going.

With competitive endurance rides and FEI rides, the minimum speed is absolute so if you're below that then you're eliminated. With EGB graded rides, there's a buffer zone where you'll get a slightly lower grade the slower you go, and if you're below that then you'll be eliminated. Pleasure rides are usually a bit more flexible and as long as you haven't taken the pee and stopped at the pub for hours you'll generally get a completion even if you're slow.

Also, at EGB rides you can claim a time allowance if you have to stop to assist someone. So if you lose half an hour waiting for an ambulance or whatever, you can claim that back and finish your ride.
 
You're allowed a stop watch and/or a GPS, but with experience you get to feel how fast you're going.

With competitive endurance rides and FEI rides, the minimum speed is absolute so if you're below that then you're eliminated. With EGB graded rides, there's a buffer zone where you'll get a slightly lower grade the slower you go, and if you're below that then you'll be eliminated. Pleasure rides are usually a bit more flexible and as long as you haven't taken the pee and stopped at the pub for hours you'll generally get a completion even if you're slow.

Also, at EGB rides you can claim a time allowance if you have to stop to assist someone. So if you lose half an hour waiting for an ambulance or whatever, you can claim that back and finish your ride.

Thank you for the answers :)
 
I've heard recently that in Australia, rides tend to have what we would call "static crews", i.e. sloshes/water/food provided for everyone on course at checkpoints, and riders' individual crews not allowed out on course. I think a large amount of the differences in crewing might be due to what is practical given the local geography and/or prevailing weather.

I had never seen on course crewing until the WC in Dubai in 1998 - it just never happened in NZ. It was allowed at a couple of FEI rides here after that, but I can remember one in particular where things got a bit out of hand with vehicles and horses sharing the same space. It was stopped from then on a H and S basis, it just hasn't really been practical and most of us just don't bother.

There are check points on course and most people carry cell phones now and with improved reception vehicles can get out on track if there is an emergency. We feed at vet gates and with the increased number of vet gates now, it has got easier.
 
Really interesting - I have a question - sorry if it has been covered :o

For timings/speeds are you allowed a stop watch or the like? Or is that the skill - knowing the speed you are travelling? How are you penalised for going slower than your chosen category - or is it just that you can't progress to the next level?

So many things I am interested to know :)

Lots of people ride with a Garmin or similar, but that can be deceptive if you go off-course or something. I've had Endomondo going on my phone before when I had misplaced my Garmin, but was mostly just riding off the clock on my phone and the map. I'm pretty good at knowing how fast we're going, but if I have to make a fairly specific time and know it might be close, then it's very helpful to have a watch!

In Scotland, minimum speed for a Pleasure Ride is 8kph; you don't collect mileage or get your rosette if you're slower than that. For competitive rides where you're trying to hit a Speed Category, you get penalty points (I think one for every 3 minutes above or below? Not sure, never got any for that), and that affects your award at the end. For Grading rides (e.g. trying to get the Silver Thistle Final) that have a minimum speed, getting below that speed means you don't get the Grading, even though you successfully completed. So: we needed 11 kph, but managed 10.36 kph. We got our mileage (81km), we got our Award (Speed Category 3, Silver Award for the 53 bpm heart rate), but not the Grading (Silver Thistle Final). Consequence: we don't progress to the next level.

I gather the whole thing with maps and markings etc. varies a lot around the world! Up here, you get a map with the route, a "talk-round" describing the route/landmarks to look out for/hazards, and the route is marked with flappy tape markers and/or biodegradable spray paint. The info is emailed out about a week before. I'm told that in some places, there are no talk-rounds, in others, there are no maps, and in yet others, there are no markers?
 
Route markers here down under but no map. Yes you can carry a GPS.
SpookyPony Our terrain depends on which state you are in. I'm in WA: some of our rides are flat and fast, others are hilly and slower. (Although probably not that hilly by Scottish standards!)
NSW and Tasmania have some much tougher tracks.
Our maximum time for an 80km ride is usually nine hours, so 5.5 mph or 9 km/hr.
 
Really interesting thread - lots of info I never knew

although as an ex event rider, and current hunting person, I'm still not gripped by that much time in the saddle!! (or all the maths lol!)
 
Route markers here down under but no map. Yes you can carry a GPS.
SpookyPony Our terrain depends on which state you are in. I'm in WA: some of our rides are flat and fast, others are hilly and slower. (Although probably not that hilly by Scottish standards!)
NSW and Tasmania have some much tougher tracks.
Our maximum time for an 80km ride is usually nine hours, so 5.5 mph or 9 km/hr.

Do you ever get markers stolen or placed elsewhere by other people? There's been a few rides where I've been very happy to have a map, as the markers had been moved! :o

Our minimum for Completion is 9 kph as well. Do the tougher tracks sometimes have time allowances for terrain? That can happen here if there is a long section where you have to walk, for example (e.g. once, the route went through an area with large amounts of loose small children...)
 
Yes, we make adjustments for tough terrain and for hot weather (earlier start time, plus extra time allowed on course).
Yes, markers do go missing.. I have vivid memories of my first 100 miler (160km) where we rode past a house that had a serious party going on then about half a mile later we got lost.. Markers were missing and I'm sure it was the party goers who flogged them. Getting lost 145km into a 160km ride, in the dark, is NO fun.. However it gave me one of my most treasured moments with Joe: when we finally got back on track and got to the last checkpoint he took hold of the bit and FLEW the last 10km home.. If he could have talked he would have been saying "YOU may not know where home is mother but I DO!" and he was completely in charge at that stage, which is most unlike him as he usually likes his hand held... Bless him.
 
Top