The Mollassed Chaff Rant

[criso]

While I take the point about grass and hay making up a larger proportion of the diet, there is something in the molassed chaff that my horse at least reacted to differently.

I have never had any problems with his behaviour even when the spring grass comes through and he can actually handle cereals, but 1/2 a scoop breakfast and dinner of an own brand chaff from the local feed store (I called it psycho chaff) and my beach donkey turned into the amazing exploding tb and gave my sharer a ride he'll never forget. He nearly gave up riding after 40 years in the saddle because of it.

 

[skint1]

I'm really confused, I feed mine Hi-Fi Lite, this is approved by The Laminitis Trust (I think), why would they approve something that had a high sugar content and is therefore bad for horses?

 

[AdorableAlice]

I feed readigrass as it is more natural, and also doesn't have the pesticides on it that chaff has. But, it is fairly high in natural grass sugars, so not suitable for fatties.

I just use a double handful to ensure the yearlings chew rather than gulp their suregrow down. A bag lasts for ever.

 

[EMZ]

I can beat molassed chaff I went to the local feed merchant and saw a bright pink bag with a palomino princes pony on it. And it was vanilla flavoured chaff! Hate to think what's in it xx

 

[criso]

I can beat molassed chaff I went to the local feed merchant and saw a bright pink bag with a palomino princes pony on it. And it was vanilla flavoured chaff! Hate to think what's in it xx

I had to go and look that up to see if it was real but actually despite the cutesie packaging and marketing at 5% it's actually lower in sugar than Hi Fi which I believe is 8 or 9% and much lower than the mollichaff range (15 -20%).

From their fb page.

Forget-Me-Not Farm Complete Chaff combines chopped and pelleted straw with a sprinkling of alfalfa, oil, molasses and a vanilla flavour with added vits and mins. It's a complete feed, so when fed at the recommended levels of 500g per 100kg bodyweight, no additional vits and mins are needed. It provides 6.5MJ/kg Digestible energy, 5% sugar and 2.5% starch

Interesting we assume something in a pink bag is more sugary than something in a sensibly coloured bag.

 

[Oberon]

I'm really confused, I feed mine Hi-Fi Lite, this is approved by The Laminitis Trust (I think), why would they approve something that had a high sugar content and is therefore bad for horses?

Hi Fi Lite isn't heavily molassed, sticky, lumpy and 15% sugar (like the molassed chop that started my rant )

The Laminitis Trust has a certain criteria for which feeds can be endorsed by them.

http://www.laminitis.org/approval.html

They can't be high in NSCs to be endorsed.

But to me, it isn't about just the bucket feed in isolation.....our horses can be at risk from lami from a combination of lifestyle factors.

Discounting lami from acute inflammatory disease (grain bin incidents/surgery/poisoning) and concentrating on lami coming on where the horse has been exposed to one risk too many and it's tipped them over - which is what is going to happen to some this spring/summer.

A little too much feed, a little too much grass, a little too little work and it can all add up to a sick horse before we know it.

Our climate is too mild, our grass is too green and our horses work too little for the feeds offered.

I am distrustful of the Laminitis Trust anyway - I feel their information is outdated and their endorsement of some feeds is just dodgy...'Happy Hoof' being a case in point .

 

[Oberon]

I just use a double handful to ensure the yearlings chew rather than gulp their suregrow down. A bag lasts for ever.

I used to feed Readigrass to Obi (don't want to risk it with his Cushings now though).

I loved the smell and it lasted forever.

 

[Delicious_D]

Ive started feeding dee the Alfa A mollasses free.

 

[Delicious_D]

has anyone seen that chaff with vanilla in it? it's in a bright pink bag that looks like my little pony. I can not believe feed merchants sell this, what part does vanilla play in the horses diet?

I've seen this and commented about the dumbing down of the feed market and anyone who feeds this because the bag is pink needs shooting1

 

[Oberon]

anyone who feeds this because the bag is pink needs shooting1

A grump after my own heart .

 

[Delicious_D]

A grump after my own heart .

I overheard a couple buying Bailey Competition mix becuase their little welshy was going to his 1st show :O :O :O

 

[Oberon]

I overheard a couple buying Bailey Competition mix becuase their little welshy was going to his 1st show :O :O :O

That's why I have to just let it all out on here and keep my mouth shut elsewhere

 

[Delicious_D]

That's why I have to just let it all out on here and keep my mouth shut elsewhere

so tempting sometimes isnt it

 

[maccachic]

I overheard a couple buying Bailey Competition mix becuase their little welshy was going to his 1st show :O :O :O

I can remember when I was about 13 feeding my arab mare extra sweetfeed before an event to give her extra energy, took me ages to work out it just made her spooky.

 

[EMZ]

In know when u walked in and saw the horrific pink bag I think my words were what the &£@& is that x

 

[TGM]

When does a horse become lami-prone? When it has it's first attack of laminitis.
What was the horse before this? It was non-lami prone.

I think you have to use a little common sense here. In fact, further down the thread you have listed some of the common risk factors - overweight, lack of exercise etc.

If you take my OH's horse - he is a 17.1hh hunter who works hard and is a naturally lean animal. Even when he is not being ridden he is a naturally active animal who likes to play and move around. It is unlikely that a couple of handfuls of molassed chaff added to his feed is going to pose him any danger whatsoever.

Contrast him with the overweight pony with a cresty neck, who rarely gets ridden and is the type who is happy to stand and eat all day rather than move around. Add a generous portion of heavily molassed chaff every day and then you are likely to hit trouble.

I am not actually disagreeing with you, but just encouraging you to make your argument a bit more rational, as more people tend to take it on board then.

The other thing that I would point out that everyone gets so hung up about molasses that they tend to overlook the fact that it is the total sugar AND starch content they should worry about. There are some lightly molassed feeds that actually have a lower sugar/starch level than some that are unmolassed!

 

[TwoStroke]

I think you have to use a little common sense here. In fact, further down the thread you have listed some of the common risk factors - overweight, lack of exercise etc.

If you take my OH's horse - he is a 17.1hh hunter who works hard and is a naturally lean animal. Even when he is not being ridden he is a naturally active animal who likes to play and move around. It is unlikely that a couple of handfuls of molassed chaff added to his feed is going to pose him any danger whatsoever.

Contrast him with the overweight pony with a cresty neck, who rarely gets ridden and is the type who is happy to stand and eat all day rather than move around. Add a generous portion of heavily molassed chaff every day and then you are likely to hit trouble.

I am not actually disagreeing with you, but just encouraging you to make your argument a bit more rational, as more people tend to take it on board then.

The other thing that I would point out that everyone gets so hung up about molasses that they tend to overlook the fact that it is the total sugar AND starch content they should worry about. There are some lightly molassed feeds that actually have a lower sugar/starch level than some that are unmolassed!

By and large I agree with you, and when people feed sensibly and appropriately for the individual horse it's not a problem. However, just because a horse is naturally active and lean, doesn't mean that certain feeds don't pose a risk. One of ours for eg, a TB, is extremely sensitive to sugars. He doesn't get silly or spooky, he never gets fat, and he doesn't get clinical laminitis. The first thing you notice is that his feet have literally fallen apart. By then of course, it's far too late.

It's not just the weight of the animal that is the issue, it's what's going on in the hind gut, where you can't see. Why feed these crappy feeds when there's absolutely no reason it is necessary?

 

[criso]

The horse I referred to that reacted badly to just 1/2 a scoop of own brand chaff was a 16.2 tb, in work, being turned out every day and also lively in the field and at that point was quite underweight as he had an issue with the hay the yard was providing and grass hadn't come through significantly at that time.

As I said he is fine with cereals, spring grass and rocket fuel ryegrass haylage and yes the latter two would provide much more sugar to his overall intake but there was something in the sugar hit from the heavily molassed chaff that he reacted to in terms of his behaviour.

 

[Oberon]

I think you have to use a little common sense here. In fact, further down the thread you have listed some of the common risk factors - overweight, lack of exercise etc.

If you take my OH's horse - he is a 17.1hh hunter who works hard and is a naturally lean animal. Even when he is not being ridden he is a naturally active animal who likes to play and move around. It is unlikely that a couple of handfuls of molassed chaff added to his feed is going to pose him any danger whatsoever.

But I was not referring to you personally when I started the thread

I was referring to such things as:

a) A foal kept in the stable 23.5 hours a day, rugged up and given A 'show mix' because it's going to be a show pony when it grows up.

b) A 3 year old pony from an auction. It is being kept in a stable 23.5 hours a day, rugged and fed Leigh's Mollased Chaff and Calm and Condition because it's condition score is around 3 and the owner (BHS qualified) thinks it looks poor.

c) A 13 year old, 15hh TB x. Had laminitic attacks every year for the last 5 years. Is fed 'Conditioning Chaff' and a 'Conditioning feed'. Horse absolutely screams ulcers and back pain to me - which is probably why it doesn't keep weight as easily.

Contrast him with the overweight pony with a cresty neck, who rarely gets ridden and is the type who is happy to stand and eat all day rather than move around. Add a generous portion of heavily molassed chaff every day and then you are likely to hit trouble.

I would like us to reconsider our feeding practices BEFORE the pony gets overweight and cresty.

I am not actually disagreeing with you, but just encouraging you to make your argument a bit more rational, as more people tend to take it on board then.

Thank you for your tutelage but the clue was in the title . I think I am usually pretty rational on here so I feel I can be allowed a little rant once in a while

The other thing that I would point out that everyone gets so hung up about molasses that they tend to overlook the fact that it is the total sugar AND starch content they should worry about. There are some lightly molassed feeds that actually have a lower sugar/starch level than some that are unmolassed!

Agree. We need to stop reading the big letters on the feed bags and look at the small writing.....but that's a rant for another day

 

[TGM]

But I was not referring to you personally when I started the thread

No, but you did say "So I keep seeing bags of a local brand of Mollassed chop being delivered to people" and then implying that they are doing the equivalent of feeding a bag of sugar a day. I was just trying to point out that might not be the case at all with all the people who receive this chaff. I know a lot of people who feed molassed chaff and the majority do just add a handful to the feed.

However, if you said that you seen someone feeding a horse bucketfuls of the stuff then I could have understood your rant and argument better!

 

[Oberon]

No, but you did say "So I keep seeing bags of a local brand of Mollassed chop being delivered to people" and then implying that they are doing the equivalent of feeding a bag of sugar a day. I was just trying to point out that might not be the case at all with all the people who receive this chaff. I know a lot of people who feed molassed chaff and the majority do just add a handful to the feed.

However, if you said that you seen someone feeding a horse bucketfuls of the stuff then I could have understood your rant and argument better!

Apologies.

I should have explained what I meant more clearly for you

My defence is that I am doing 12 hours shifts with Manflu .

 

[Gentle_Warrior]

Am going to jump on this thread, I have a good doer, 21 this year, happy hacker, chunky monkey build, currently lost through winter (brilliant) normal summer options of restricted grazing, 12 hr soaked hay if needed. Fed a balancer (Baileys Local) with half a scoop of Hi Fi Lite added. Never had laminitis but due to his, looking at grass and putting on weight genes, I urge on the side of caution and use Hi Fi Lite ?

Am I wrong ?

 

[Twinkley Lights]

I agree the lack of unmollassed chaff is an issue. I'm moving my uber good doer onto the honeychop oat straw chaff moving from Happy hoof to cut sugars further still, but I've had the devil's own job to source it until someone agreed to buy it in for me.

 

[TGM]

Am going to jump on this thread, I have a good doer, 21 this year, happy hacker, chunky monkey build, currently lost through winter (brilliant) normal summer options of restricted grazing, 12 hr soaked hay if needed. Fed a balancer (Baileys Local) with half a scoop of Hi Fi Lite added. Never had laminitis but due to his, looking at grass and putting on weight genes, I urge on the side of caution and use Hi Fi Lite ?

Am I wrong ?

Why would you be wrong? Seems sensible to me! Or are you worried about the small amount of molasses in Hifi Lite in which case you could consider using Fast Fibre or even no chaff at all!

 

[Gentle_Warrior]

cheers TGM x

 

[mandwhy]

It is ridiculous how 90% of chaff in the shop is molassed, I just don't get it, why would there need to be molasses in it unless you're trying to coerce them into eating medicine? My horse eats anything!

Also if you don't want molasses OR alfalfa you can forget it in most places, I compromised on hi fi lite for a while until I discovered a big feed shop that stocks simple systems so now I get timothy chop which is great. Slightly expensive for basically chopped hay but it is a huge bag. Both of mine are good doers, I just want to give them a little something when they come to see me from the field so I can faff with rugs etc and say hi, and any supplements. The big one has mag ox and Agnus castus to try and calm her general stressyness, so I don't think sugar is going to help.

Am I the only one who finds the concept of 'mollychaff calmer' especially ridiculous?

I know not all horses are that bothered by sugar but imagine how many people are thinking 'why is my horse so hyper? He only has half a bucket of chaff!'

 

[Oberon]

It is ridiculous how 90% of chaff in the shop is molassed, I just don't get it, why would there need to be molasses in it unless you're trying to coerce them into eating medicine? My horse eats anything!

Also if you don't want molasses OR alfalfa you can forget it in most places, I compromised on hi fi lite for a while until I discovered a big feed shop that stocks simple systems so now I get timothy chop which is great. Slightly expensive for basically chopped hay but it is a huge bag. Both of mine are good doers, I just want to give them a little something when they come to see me from the field so I can faff with rugs etc and say hi, and any supplements. The big one has mag ox and Agnus castus to try and calm her general stressyness, so I don't think sugar is going to help.

Am I the only one who finds the concept of 'mollychaff calmer' especially ridiculous?

I know not all horses are that bothered by sugar but imagine how many people are thinking 'why is my horse so hyper? He only has half a bucket of chaff!'

I'm on the Simple System Timothy Chop for the old boy but we are quite lucky that a couple of places around here have started stocking basic hay chaff too.

I can't have molasses or alfalfa - so I was stuck

Yes, Mollichaff Calmer makes me chuckle too - in fact anything labelled as a calmer that doesn't come from the vet makes me chuckle .

We expect our horses to be athletes - in what world would we expect athletes to perform at their best on a diet of ready meals ?

 

[Elsiecat]

I always keep a bin with Chaff in. Whichever is cheapest/available. Sometimes pegusus, sometimes apple flavoured chaff, sometimes leigh chaff.
Gets fed to the Fox twice a day. About a handful to have her hormone balancer with.
I wouldn't feed is as part of a meal as I don't understand it's purpose. Eg. If feeding for weight, no purpose etc.
I literally use that for her balancer as its cheap.
Wouldn't let the welshie near it!

ETA - any suggestions on something else cheap and easy just to have her balancer with? Open to suggestions on this!

 

[Elsiecat]

Am I the only one who finds the concept of 'mollychaff calmer' especially ridiculous?

I know not all horses are that bothered by sugar but imagine how many people are thinking 'why is my horse so hyper? He only has half a bucket of chaff!'

I had this ponder at the feedshop once!!! How can this even work!?

 

[Toast]

I always keep a bin with Chaff in. Whichever is cheapest/available. Sometimes pegusus, sometimes apple flavoured chaff, sometimes leigh chaff.
Gets fed to the Fox twice a day. About a handful to have her hormone balancer with.
I wouldn't feed is as part of a meal as I don't understand it's purpose. Eg. If feeding for weight, no purpose etc.
I literally use that for her balancer as its cheap.
Wouldn't let the welshie near it!

ETA - any suggestions on something else cheap and easy just to have her balancer with? Open to suggestions on this!

How much do you pay for a bag of crappy chaff Elsiecat? If she'll eat it, plain chaff is just a couple of pounds for a big sack. Otherwise i use Graze On which is just flash dried grass. That costs me about £7 for 20kg and last absolutely ages.

Oberon, don't get me started on molassed chaffs. Im the same with heavily molassed mixes. Sixteen plus and Pegasus mix make me cringe! I have to bite my tongue when i see liveries carrying bags of these followed by a bag of Leigh Chop or Mollichop!