The Mollassed Chaff Rant

RebelRebel said:
I still use bran. I am confuddled by the need for chaff and also *hard hearted owner alert* my good doers get nothing :eek:. Wait for it... not even a balancer :eek: Actually that is a small lie, they get a handful of bran and 3 or 4 high fibre cubes once a day and that is it on the extras front.
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My Connie x is a fairly good doer and is currently existing on adlib hay, whatever grass he can find in the field when he's out during the day (he ignores any hay put out, only ever wants that in the stable) and a small handful of chaff. I figure that a tiny handful of chaff isn't going to do him much harm (and I do understand about BF type diets having had a horse in the past with terrible feet and arthritis who I did debate taking BF so did endless research). If he's really lucky he might get a slice of apple once a week!! He only gets "dinner" because I used to feed the other horse, when I had them both, and felt a bit mean not giving the pony any so I just stayed in the habit once I was down to just one.

I usually feed either D&H High Fibre Nuts or Safe & Sound (both of which IMO are great feeds). Couldn't get S&S at local feed merchant last time so they suggested Happy Hoof as being similar but been really unimpressed with it. The quality is much lower than S&S, it doesn't smell fresh and it seems quite sugary. And because he only gets a sprinkle in a bucket every day it's going to take about 5 years to get through the whole bag! :/
 
RebelRebel said:
I still use bran. I am confuddled by the need for chaff and also *hard hearted owner alert* my good doers get nothing :eek:. Wait for it... not even a balancer :eek: Actually that is a small lie, they get a handful of bran and 3 or 4 high fibre cubes once a day and that is it on the extras front.
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I used bran. I love it and the horses love it.

Sadly my phosphorus level came back too high to safely continue feeding it :(.
 
Oberon said:
I can get a bag of unmolassed hay chaff for £6. It comes in a white hessian sack.

The Simple System Timothy Chop is £12 and comes in a nice, waterproof bag (for my leaky tackroom :D).

Both bags last forever (I only feed it to my dentally challenged old boy)

As far as safe, BF diets go, separates are usually more successful than complete mixes (although all horses are different)......

Basic No 1 foundation feed is forage - grass/hay/haylage. That, sunlight and internal synthesis is where the majority of nutrition comes from.

So a bucket feed just needs to pay homage to the foundation.

More fibre in the form of unmolassed beet or Fast Fibre is usually a safe base.
Spiller's High Fibre Cubes or Dodson and Horrell ERS pellets have been found safe to use also.

Chaff isn't really needed if you are feeding a fibre feed anyway but unmolassed timothy hay/oat straw is safe (Simple System, Halley's chop, Pure feed, HoneyChop Straw Chaff etc).

Because the horses tend to stay on the same forage from the same land (no longer free roaming equines) then we need to balance what is funky about that land. Usually we've found UK grazing has high calcium, high manganese, high iron, low zinc, low copper and magnesium that can't jump over the calcium level. Phosphorous, selenium, iodine and sodium can vary from area to area.
Most commercial feeds calculate via balancing software - but that software doesn't appreciate the quirks in the forage. So you get a 'balanced' feed that is only balanced to itself.
There are a few supplements out now that understand these quirks and provide a balance to what is funky.

Linseed is a joint aid, coat conditioner, gut aid and hoof moisture balancer. It contains the omega oils present in grass at the best ratio for a horse.

For energy - oats are safe to use for hooves.

For conditioning - copra meal or soya hulls.

Pro biotic - yea-sacc or brewer's yeast.

It's a basic and simple diet. The feed companies make it all so complicated!!!
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Brilliant post thank you
 
The benefit of adding chaff to feeds is it encourages the horse to chew (the longer chop the chaff the better) chewing has two effects it produces salivia which buffers stomach acid and it also increases feed utilisation.

I like adding alfala to mine as it add protein, vits and mins as well to help balance out my diet and the added affect of alfalfa having ulcer preventing qualities.
 
maccachic said:
The benefit of adding chaff to feeds is it encourages the horse to chew (the longer chop the chaff the better) chewing has two effects it produces salivia which buffers stomach acid and it also increases feed utilisation.
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But surely that's the function of their forage ration?

Why pay for it in the bucket too?
 
Well there has been some development....

My friend mentioned that her new pony "is a bit wick" at the moment.

I turned to her with my eyebrows heavenward and told her it's because of the Calm and Condition's 18% NSC mixed with the Leigh's chaff at 15% :o

We had a chat about alternatives :D

She won't be swayed on the chaff though because the pony likes it and it makes the bucket look fuller :o.

Baby steps ;).
 
maccachic said:
More in relation to feeding with grains etc as opposed to just a bucket of chaff.
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What I don't get it that even if fed grain - the transit time of forage in the stomach is around 2 - 4 hours......so there will already be chewed forage, home-made chaff in the stomach to digest with the grain.

So why do we need more in the bucket?
 
I guess they chew it more and that generates extra salivia which travels with it, Im not sure as not a nutritionist - but there was research done and digestibility rose when fed alongside chaff, was done by a feed company trying to promote their chaff but easily transferable across any range.
 
TGM said:
Actually Sixteen Plus worries me a lot more than molassed chaff. For a start, if fed the way the manufacturer recommends it adds a significant amount of starch and sugar to the diet. Secondly, it is aimed at veteran horses who are statistically much more likely to have developed Cushings disease and therefore much more likely to be laminitis prone. Thirdly, a lot of owners seem to think just because a horse becomes a 'veteran' it automatically needs to be fed 'veteran mix'. (Just like those who think a horse who competes HAS to have competition mix.)

I have known several cases where owners have switched to high starch veteran mixes and the horses have swiftly succumbed to laminitis.
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My old man, now 34 and still shod and doing gentle hacks has been on 16+ since he was 16!! When I bought him (aged 15) he was kept stabled all winter as he lost so much weight. Result he dumped all the clients at the yard who owned him and no one was allowed to ride him, which is why I purchased him.

He has never looked back. His teeth and feet are fantastic much to the amazement of my dentist.
 
I love this thread! I'm constantly moaning at my local feed store to stock something without molasses OR alfalfa. I hadn't considering stopping chaff altogether before though. I feed Bailey's Lo cal to both of mine - a very good doer and a not so good doer. The fatty then gets a handful of chaff and a slop of the water off the top of the Speedibeet (which I make like soup). My thinny gets micronised linseed, more speedibeet, as well as the chaff and a measure of Yea sac, which I'm just using up and not planning to replace (as it's in the lo cal).

After reading here, thinking I'll stop the chaff, and probably the Speedibeet also, and just use a bit of Fast Fibre. Both boys are out on decent grazing for about 7 -8 hours a day, and have ad lib late-cut hay in the stable (fatty gets his soaked).

Does that sound OK?
 
I'm definately of the opinion that diet is a major cause of most ills of the domesticated horse, driven by feed companies who hopefully don't know any better, but who probably do and are profiteering at the expense of the horses health.

I believe that stress is the reason behind diseases such as cushions, insulin resistance etc. This is induced by the feeding of sugars and cereals, totally alien to the horses diet.

Couple this with a poor environment, ie. a livery situation or competition type yard and the horse has little or no chance.
 
Landcruiser said:
After reading here, thinking I'll stop the chaff, and probably the Speedibeet also, and just use a bit of Fast Fibre.
Does that sound OK?
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Bearing in mind that two of the main ingredients of fast fibre are unmolassed sugarbeet and straw it would be an easy way for you to feed these.

I don't feed a chaff at all, neither of mine are good enough doers that I am looking for filler and the calcium levels are far to high in my forage to feed Alfalfa.

They have ad lib forage at the all times so I use feeds to complement this.
 
This is my first post....I feed fast fibre and a vit/min supplement to my boys, all good doers and native ponies who are out with access to ad lib hay.

I have just taken on a 10 month old cob foal who came to our yard in a very poor way, his mother had died. I have put him on D&H Suregrow with some chaff, he also has adlib haylage. I have never had a youngster before and am very mindful of avoiding developmental problems for him.

Would this feed regime be ok?
 
nagsandrags said:
This is my first post....I feed fast fibre and a vit/min supplement to my boys, all good doers and native ponies who are out with access to ad lib hay.

I have just taken on a 10 month old cob foal who came to our yard in a very poor way, his mother had died. I have put him on D&H Suregrow with some chaff, he also has adlib haylage. I have never had a youngster before and am very mindful of avoiding developmental problems for him.

Would this feed regime be ok?
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That is how I feed my youngsters and they both thrive. If the cob foal is in a poor way it would be wise to speak to you vet about worming the foal, rather than just buying a product off the shelf. If he has a big burden he made need a specific product/programme before he joins your worming programme for the rest of your horses.
 
AdorableAlice said:
That is how I feed my youngsters and they both thrive. If the cob foal is in a poor way it would be wise to speak to you vet about worming the foal, rather than just buying a product off the shelf. If he has a big burden he made need a specific product/programme before he joins your worming programme for the rest of your horses.
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Thanks for the reply, he's been on the yard since last Autumn and has been being wormed. He's in a much much better way now than when he came and has put weight on. I read good things about the Suregrow so thought it would be worth a try.
 
Sorry, I read it as 'just arrived'.

I had a Shire x arrive last June aged 10 months, totally feral and rather poor. He had Strongid P several times before joining the routine worming programme. He picked up really well and has grown about 6 inches now. It is very satisfying patching them back together and watching them thrive, learn to trust you and gain confidence.

I use suregrow, handful of unmollassed chaff and unmollassed suger beet. Let them grow as nature intended and with luck there will be no joint problems. Good luck, your foal is fortunate to have found a caring home.
 
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