The nagging feeling that riding horses is just odd

Somewhat Off The Way said:
I suspect this is why threads are constantly being closed on this forum. I have worded one post badly and I'm being painted as some kind of ruthless horse (ab)user which couldn't be further from the truth. You know nothing about me!
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The main reason that threads get closed is because people button-push when their point of view is challenged and they don't like it - which ruins the conversation for everyone else.

This is a discussion forum, people will have different points of view. No-one is painting you as anything.
 
I have not read all the replies, because quite frankly, I don’t have the time. But I genuinely don’t believe any domesticated horse would choose to be “broken in” and trained. Mine is one who “enjoys” hacking, but I am entirely unconvinced she would ever have chosen to put herself in those situations. She is so stoic, she will let me tack up and ride despite being in pain. All the while striding on with her ears forward. That doesn’t make it right to allow her to do that to herself.

She is used to it, that doesn’t mean it was right to back her in the first place or to continue riding her.
 
Owning any animal is going to be a compromise for the welfare of that animal- as soon as you restrict freedoms and remove it from its natural habitat you then have a responsibility to make the best life you can for it from the resources you have a available.
I don’t have a problem riding my horses- they’re are sound, fit and conditioned for it. I am lightweight, I use well fitting gear and I keep them well within their physical capabilities. In return, they live out in a small herd 24/7 in lovely big fields with everything they should have. I think the bigger welfare issue is those horses forced to live in tiny stables with their freedoms severely restricted, ridden by overweight people with bad hands, with physical issues ignored and lamenesses going unobserved. Sadly that is the reality for lots of ridden horses.
 
equinerebel said:
I’m paying the bills for mine. Her care does not depend on what she can offer me in return, just as it doesn’t for my other pets or the child.
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Did you purchase the horse just to pay its bills? Or did you have another reason and she has earned perpetual care?

For information I have three donkeys, all purchased in the knowledge that I would never be riding them but they earn their keep in other ways.
 
TheMule said:
Owning any animal is going to be a compromise for the welfare of that animal- as soon as you restrict freedoms and remove it from its natural habitat you then have a responsibility to make the best life you can for it from the resources you have a available.
I don’t have a problem riding my horses- they’re are sound, fit and conditioned for it. I am lightweight, I use well fitting gear and I keep them well within their physical capabilities. In return, they live out in a small herd 24/7 in lovely big fields with everything they should have. I think the bigger welfare issue is those horses forced to live in tiny stables with their freedoms severely restricted, ridden by overweight people with bad hands, with physical issues ignored and lamenesses going unobserved. Sadly that is the reality for lots of ridden horses.
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Well said. I hate seeing horses stabled most of the day, to me it seems illogical and cruel but to be fair, most do seem to tolerate it quite well.
 
Somewhat Off The Way said:
Will those of you who are determined that horses shouldn't have to work be willing to take on and care for all of our horses if we have to give them up because they can't be ridden anymore? I'd definitely get cheaper companion animals if I couldn't ride anymore.
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My dream in life is to have enough money and land to do just that; there have been some threads recently on here which have absolutely cemented this for me. (I keep wondering, keep worrying, about the bay mare with the very very straight legs that a user on here put on horse quest for £1000 to fund car repairs. If I'd got enough spare money to buy and care for her I would have :( ).
My mum asked me if I would like to ride again on Monday and my response was a very resolute "absolutely not". But I love being with horses, literally just being with them, they are amazing amazing animals.
 
I increasingly feel similar to the OP. I do think there are reasonable ways to work horses, and that those may not be a terrible compromise for the living conditions we offer horses - i.e. that a life hacking or doing light work may help to compensate for poor turnout options. But is it ever to their benefit, or even not actively to their detriment? No, probably not.

I don't actually think this is a problem of social license, from the "average" person. I don't think the average person is even aware of most of what happens in the horse world. Certainly, my experience of non-horsey people isn't that they have ethical issues with riding horses - those views are rare outside of animal rights activists and ethical vegans. I think this is a problem within sectors of the horse world who are open to the scientific developments in veterinary care and ethology, and find that an uncomfortable place to be.

I see a lot of people, at grass roots level, who are entirely ignorant of those developments, and who either believe that it is their right to ride their horse (the idea of it "earning its keep" :rolleyes: ) or who are just oblivious to how detrimental what they do can be. I'm also aware that, historically, I've been one of them - because before we knew what we know now, we accepted the status quo more readily. I find that an uncomfortable world to inhabit these days.
 
Mine mostly pootles around the fields on a long rein for 20 minutes a few times a week while I bore her to death with my inane chatter. She wouldn’t know hard work if it came up and introduced itself.
She’s loving it at the moment because she gets to snack on the grass that is head height.

I don’t think she gets a particularly bad deal in the grand scheme of things.
 
A horse having to 'earn their keep' is giving 'who will look after you when you're old' vibes re people choosing to have children for that sole reason. It's all very transactional, but the power balance is out of whack because we 'own' them and are also responsible for keeping them alive.

I think a lot of people use 'they cost me this much, so I'm entitled to this much back from them' as a common excuse for pushing horses to do things that they would never choose to do. And I'm not unsympathetic towards those feelings, because I also work hard and earn an average amount of money; I know that horses are expensive. But they are also a choice, and I'm tired of people making excuses for riding clearly uncomfortable horses, because that's what they bought them for.
 
I wouldn't describe myself as torn, as I love riding and can't wait to get back on Little Madam (currently she is on maternity leave) as looking through her ears feels like home. But I do get what you're saying OP, and some other horses confuse me. I'm currently riding a horse I don't own and I'll be honest, I don't understand her.

She lives out with friends and never moves away when I come to take her in to ride (and it is mostly to ride as I simply don't have time to just "be" with her - and I have 3 of my own for that), but she also very rarely approaches me, I have to go to her. She seems happy for me to say hello and cuddle her, but when I put her headcollar on, if looks could kill, I would be a smouldering pile of ashes in the field. I don't think it's the head collar per se that causes the issue as she's happy for me to put it on after work or for me to put her bridle on - but there is something about the context she doesn't like. She will sulk all the way to the field gate and once through the gate, the ears go forwards again and she seems perfectly fine again. Her owner says she obviously trusts me as I can load her on the lorry with no issues and he recons she doesn't like enclosed spaces (she still has a scar from jumping out of a window when she was young). She will stand all day tied to the lorry but won't stable. Like I said she confuses me and that makes me question if I should be riding her, but if I wasn't, someone else would be and they might be less sympathetic. We seem to have come to an agreement and she is very obvious about not wanting to do something at a given time: she's normally brilliant to jump, but on occasion I've messed up and put her in difficulty and she's then point blank refused to jump again in that session. I think her now being slightly more forgiving of my mistakes in terms of re-jumping messed up jumps is a sign that I'm not completely rubbish with her.

My own horse over the years have been easier for me. My Hairy Champion that I owned as a teenager was a show off, one of those horses that suddenly displayed unknown talents if people were watching. I seriously doubt he was stressed by the competition environment, he was the kind to take everything in his stride. He did lateral work for fun on loose reins and would switch from moving forelegs to moving hind legs when I switched the cue from using my toe to using my heal. He saved my bacon a couple of times jumping ditches of his own accord to get out of the way of speeding vehicles and reminded me that he needed a decent rider on occasion by dumping me on my head when I messed up coming to a jump.
My Little Madam jumped for fun. When in livery, she used to be turned out on a smallish bank opening onto the arena because her and her Platonic Boyfriend could be counted on not to attempt to escape. When turned out, she would sometimes buck and fart, run to the grass for a mouthful, run back to the sand for a roll, jump a few jumps that were left out, another buck and a fart and back to the grass. She also used to stick in a buck and a fart when doing show jumping rounds as well. These looked and felt very different from the "what the hell, woman!" bucks she did when I messed up.

Pippin, at 2.5 months old is already jumping his Mum's feed bucket and neighing at the gate (without his mum!) when I'm in the yard. He seems to love people and I'm pretty sure he will be up for adventures when he's older, as long as I don't mess up.

I think actually owning the horses you ride sometime makes it easier. With mine, I'm free to do what I want with them, spend time with them, to take things at my (or really their!) pace, ignore anyone who says "you can't do that with a competition horse!" or "you're only confusing her with that new fangled clicker training. A horse can only learn to do so many things correctly and you want to show jump" or "you need to put draw reins on her or you'll destroy her back", etc, etc...
With horses I ride but don't own, there are more compromises but somehow less responsibility: I'll do my very best for them while they're 'in my care', whether that be an hour's ride or a years long share and try to set them up for for life in this strange human world (or at least not make it harder than it already is), but I can't shoulder responsibility for their management or riding by others. I can give opinions and suggestions, but that's it. I just have to draw a line I'm not willing to cross and walk away if I reach it (so far, I luckily haven't had to).
 
I won't ever own a ridden horse again, but not because I think it's unfair for them to do something for me a couple of times a week, in return for a happy life, I think they are physically just too delicate. Obviously my view is clouded because of my experiences, but I'd hate to put all my hopes and dreams into a horse, which will likely break at some point. I've been there more than once and it just seems so pointless.

I have Shetlands now and one of them loves getting out and about (he whinnies when he sees his head collar coming so that's pretty conclusive 😀). The other however would be more than happy spending his time eating or looking for food.
 
I haven't ridden for about fifteen years, just suddenly decided I was no longer bothered. I no longer steward, spectate or even think about taking a youngster to show. I can go to Burghley and unless I want to sit in stands and eat and ice cream, the only thing I am really interested is the vet inspection.
I feel like I have just about done everything twice, second time with my children and its a bit like finding out a magicians trick once you know the trick, realise you are bored with repeating it, what is the point, because I just not competitive.
Do I worry about making them do things? Well its a bit like having children, if you have them you have to think of their future and a well trained animal is easier to find a home for, and really with me they get a good deal. I hardly bother them, they learn most of the time by example and they spend the rest of the time in a herd. They are easy to handle and pleasant, if scruffy to look at.
 
Animals all earn their keep one way or another, or we wouldn’t buy them. Pleasure in their company/being good for the soul can be a perfect justification. But it’s not for everyone.

I don’t mean this to be nasty… but mainly I’m making the sweeping assumption that the anti riding people in here are maybe older and have many years of happy hacking/schooling/ competing behind them. Many get softer and more empathetic as they mature, I have, although i have no issue with animals having jobs.
I think now to want to maybe put younger people who haven’t had all the fun put in a position where they feel bad for doing so is maybe a bit rude? (Maybe not rude but I can’t think of a better word).
 
Herewegoagain said:
My 4 year old has started lessons also. I’m not keen on how much kids ponies get moved on once out grown, I get why it’s necessary but it’s a bit shit for them.
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Depends on the horse. I have seen many kids ponies who adored looking after their small riders but had no interest in more "interesting" activities with an older rider.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
My dream in life is to have enough money and land to do just that; there have been some threads recently on here which have absolutely cemented this for me. (I keep wondering, keep worrying, about the bay mare with the very very straight legs that a user on here put on horse quest for £1000 to fund car repairs. If I'd got enough spare money to buy and care for her I would have :( ).
My mum asked me if I would like to ride again on Monday and my response was a very resolute "absolutely not". But I love being with horses, literally just being with them, they are amazing amazing animals.
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Yep, I would love to have a huge rescue centre full of all sorts of waifs and strays of different kinds of animals. But that's not realistic for the vast majority of us.
 
Miss_Millie said:
The main reason that threads get closed is because people button-push when their point of view is challenged and they don't like it - which ruins the conversation for everyone else.

This is a discussion forum, people will have different points of view. No-one is painting you as anything.
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People button push because they get piled on.

And before anyone says anything, I've only reported someone once, several months ago, for racism. Nothing was done about it so I put them on UI
 
Contentious posts get lots of responses, because everyone wants to put their point across.

If posters don't like getting lots of responses, they should take more care to write clearly what they actually mean, and moderate that for the audience.
 
Or maybe people should read the rest of the thread and then they would see the clarification rather than multiple people making similar comments and making someone feel absolutely awful for the heinous crime of one badly worded post.
 
Somewhat Off The Way said:
Or maybe people should read the rest of the thread and then they would see the clarification rather than multiple people making similar comments and making someone feel absolutely awful for the heinous crime of one badly worded post.
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I do agree with this. I'm finding it quite often where people don't read the rest of the thread or at least read things properly. At least on mumsnet, it gets pointed out to people who haven't read it all/properly!
 
IrishMilo said:
Thankfully I’m a long term poster because I'm fully aware of how goading this post sounds! But as I become more aware of the psychology of horses, their pain cues, and just the general sentiment that making animals do things for our pleasure is wrong, I can’t shake this feeling.

I’ve been struggling with the motivation to ride for about a year, and I feel like part of it is that maybe it just doesn’t sit right with me anymore.

Maybe it’s because the horse I have now is very sensitive and I feel like we’re genuinely in tune with each other. Or just that the world is waking up to all of the micro ways in which we mistreat animals.

Don’t get me wrong, when I’m riding, I love it, but I’m losing my love for watching competition, taking part in them or just generally anything where I think “Why would I make my horse do this when he has nothing to gain from it? He doesn’t owe me this!”.

I suppose I’d just like to know if anyone else has gradually changed their priorities with horses, or even stopped riding altogether because of a feeling of malaise?

These days I get so much more pleasure from just pampering Rocky than anything else! I have a competition at the end of the month which I’m kind of using as a One Last Time sort of thing…
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Love this post!! I'm thinking exactly the same! We won our dressage league last July. I did one fun ride in September and haven't done anything since. I hack out on buckle end 3 times a week, he seems to like having a plod round, and that's it. I don't want to drill him in the school so we can do dressage, nor do I want to rag him round the country side. Enjoying him more now than ever.
 
Totally with you @IrishMilo. After my last two died I have gradually begun to look back with a degree of horror at the way I treated horses over the 40 years of owning them - just by treating them in the normal, accepted way that was supposedly correct. I have also gradually stopped going to horsey events and have no desire at all to ride. I still like coming onto the forum to see what’s going on in horsey land, but I do not think that many/any competition horses have a good life, nor do I think the average amateur horse has a great life. I am sure there are exceptions. Surely most horses would actually just like to be out with a herd, without any rugs or shoes etc and munching on an extensive acreage of rough pasture.
 
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