The nagging feeling that riding horses is just odd

It's one of those things, isn't it? One of those very things mentioned in this thread where people are gaslighted, "it's totally balanced if the rider is sitting right" - show me some scientific research and I might believe it.
 
The worst showjumping round I've ever seen happened to be a woman at a local show riding side saddle. Every time the horse went over a fence she threw her whole weight backwards, hauling back the reins (presumably to balance herself). That poor horse's mouth was in a terrible state... if I remember correctly, someone did have a word with her and she didn't react well.

However, we've all seen bad examples of people riding very unsympathetically astride. Unfortunately there must be a thousand and one ways to treat a horse badly.

Reading this thread has made me think about our own horses and what we do with them. When I was out on the hack yesterday I was thought about the importance of 'listening' to AJ and trying to be more sensitive to how he feels. At the moment, we never have to call the horses to the gate, as soon as they see us in hi viz they come over. They are incredibly co-operative when being tacked up. They seem happy when they're out an about, especially if they meet an adoring human or some other horses.
If/when any of this changes, I won't ignore it.

Riding horses isn't going to be outlawed; all we can do is to keep pushing for better awareness and better welfare.
Some practices and some riders should certainly be banned.

I think another part of the problem is the non-horsey public's perception of how we treat horses - eg, I was reported to the RSPCA for having my sweet-itch Connie in a rug and fly mask because 'the poor horse is overheating in its coat and can't see anything.' One of my neighbours said she was concerned about our cob being too thin; no, he's just coming out of winter and will be fine, the physio has confirmed this. A couple of walkers once opened the gate on my field, allowing the horses onto a neighbour's lush pasture because 'the poor things haven't got any proper grass in their field.' People can't see how certain bitless bridles can be much more severe than a snaffle.

Worse than that, even experienced horse owners/riders don't agree on what is and isn't 'cruel'. We only have to look at arguments on things like spurs, whips, certain pieces of tack, rider weight, feeding- it goes on and on.

And perhaps there are arguments we'll never resolve - but I do think we need a better consensus on what is and isn't acceptable for a horse's welfare and wellbeing.
 
marmalade76 said:
FFS, who TF are you? Alpacas don't tend to squeeze under and through fences would be top of the list. I have no idea if the get fly strike or drop dead for fun. In case you forgot, I actually said I would rather have sheep myself, my granddad used to keep them, we even had one that lived in our back garden for a time, my horses have shared grazing with sheep on & off over the years, my fave being the little Welsh Black Mountain sheep, super cute. I have no idea why these folks chose to have alpacas instead of sheep, perhaps they think they're cooler, perhaps they were fans of Nuzzle & Scratch, I don't know!
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? Someone with rather more manners, it would seem.
You cited an equestrian business keeping alpaca to qualify some of their enterprise as ‘agricultural’.
Alpaca don’t require licences, passports, are not part of the food chain, don’t require DEFRA registration of all movements : contrast cattle, sheep etc, with hundreds of years of UK history as ‘agricultural animals ‘, and I said sheep would be better for ‘agricultural’ purposes.
alpaca are regarded as agricultural creatures for town and planning etc.
Clearer now?
 
Sandstone1 said:
Do not know anything about Alpacas but there was a huge fuss about Geronimo the Alpacas a few years ago and TB testing.
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The entire UK herd of camelids should be mandatorily tested, regularly like cattle, for TB. As it stands, only tested if owners want, hence all the handwringing on a positive result.
There is no point vaccinating badgers, culling bovines, ‘biosecurity’, unless this growing reservoir is also addressed, particularly since they can be very sick and shedding virus, indeed, before showing any signs at all. This due to their alti-Plano origins.
 
Everyone asking if 30s is young. Absolutely! Don't waste it.... life goes too fast and sadly so do knee & hip joints.

I've got 3 here. I'll always need a minimum of 3 so I can take one away but any additions will need to be riding horses. They break easily enough as it is, so at least starting as a riding horse here. I had two winters with 3 out of work (retiree, fast heading to retiree status and recovering from injury). It was a long slog and made me realise I have horses to enjoy riding them. I hope they also enjoy the stuff we do - although the hooligan would much prefer a fun ride over dressage.

I know 2 people who have made the decision not to ride on moral grounds but neither are looking to replace the horses they have now. In all honesty I think their interests are elsewhere now, but neither would pass on for fear of where they'd end up.

There's a fascinating book I read years ago about how cultures which developed quickly did so because they had a beast of burden - camel, horse, alpaca type things. Struggling to remember the details but a reminder of how much this world owes the horse
 
JFTDWS said:
Pretty much any animal infected with TB will be infectious before it shows signs of disease. That is precisely why it's such a problem to control.

And TB is a bacterium, not a virus.
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That is correct, and since camelids spit considerably more than cattle, stand back.
There are plenty problems with both TB tests and infection, for example feral deer populations, but alpaca are testable, and given that routine vaccination of UK children ceased c. 30 years ago, we don’t want any infected stock unnecessarily around. If you thought anything about your alpacas and llamas - irrespective of concern for other wildlife or cattle or humans - support for testing and TB elimination would be obvious. It’s a horrible death.
 
marmalade76 said:
It's one of those things, isn't it? One of those very things mentioned in this thread where people are gaslighted, "it's totally balanced if the rider is sitting right" - show me some scientific research and I might believe it.
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This being about side saddle, again?
(Lucky it’s so wet out....)

A quick search on this forum reveals umpteen discussions about horses with sore backs, and all sorts of hypotheses as to why, whether it’s pi*s poor riding, pi*s poor saddle fitting, pi*s poor conformation, pi*s poor training regime, or anything else that’s questionable or inadequate with the horse/ rider combination. However:

since hardly anyone rides aside these days (probably even fewer of them contributing to this forum), I’d hazard a guess that all these sore backs have very little to do with ladies’ saddles, at all - and certainly ain’t limited to them.

Most aside riders I know spend considerably more time and money getting their saddles ‘right’ than your average astride rider does.

Since side saddles have also proved invaluable for so many disabled or compromised people to enjoy and benefit from riding horses, and in some cases enabled their horses to continue their activities, you’ll require much harder evidence to justify compounding disadvantage by ‘banning them’.
 
Exasperated said:
That is correct, and since camelids spit considerably more than cattle, stand back.
There are plenty problems with both TB tests and infection, for example feral deer populations, but alpaca are testable, and given that routine vaccination of UK children ceased c. 30 years ago, we don’t want any infected stock unnecessarily around. If you thought anything about your alpacas and llamas - irrespective of concern for other wildlife or cattle or humans - support for testing and TB elimination would be obvious. It’s a horrible death.
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Believe me, I do not require educating about TB by you :)
 
teapot said:
I know someone who is an out and out side saddle rider and goes through horses far too quickly for my liking - granted could be the individual, but they've all appeared to ended up becoming incredibly sore in the back. Side saddle may enable the human, but I'm not sold on the impact on the horse...
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I agree with this comment on the impact on the horse. We prioritise access to the sport for the people, and sometimes the horse is a second thought. I feel a bit like that with some of the RDA stuff. Horses are brilliant for people, but seeing (particularly heavy) people who can't physically hold themselves in balance bouncing around on a horse's back doesn't sit right with me. Not all RDA riders are like that, but I've volunteered a few times and assisted with that type of rider, and I'm not sure it's truly fair on the horse. I think the increase in access to para carriage driving is much better (although I'll confess I'm no expert).

It's a tricky one though, because all of us are impacting the horses by riding. If we want to continue we need to minimise the impact on them, by trying to stay in balance, staying fit, ensuring we are an appropriate weight for the horse, ensuring tack fits, that the horse is comfortable etc. Sometimes that means having an uncomfortable conversation, and sometimes it means accepting that we shouldn't ride.
 
Sandstone1 said:
I dislike vaulting. Why do people need a horse to do gymnastics? I think it’s demeaning for the horse to be used as a piece of gym equipment. Also hate to see people standing on horses
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Well they usually fall off quite a lot so that may be a small comfort. I think I might agree with you.
 
I've been thinking about this thread all weekend (the OG reason for it, not Alpacas!) and I'm still not sure where I stand with it.

I have a 20 year old pony who would obviously be 100% happier being left alone munching in his field, yet once he's out and about, he appears to enjoy exploring the countryside, meeting pals at the beach etc but he does seem to 'put up with' being tacked up, being loaded etc. Once out, he's forward, ears pricked, engaged and sneaking bits of hedge etc and is playful. He is bright eyed, shiney coat, sound - a picture of health.

Everytime I tack him up I just feel like he'd rather just be turned back out (and of course he would!). It brings up the concern of 'learned helplessness (LH)'... and how do we know when being obliging crosses into LH?

For those who wait for 'consent' from their horse - how do you ever make plans with friend to ride? do you often cancel when your horse doesn't offer consent? I met friends at the local beach this Sunday morning, and my pony didn't particularly want to be brought in and loaded up at 6am... he said no to going onto the trailer - not dramatically, almost testing the water to see if I'd say 'no worries, we won't go'. I asked again and he walked on (he loads himself), so we went... but I felt a bit guilty while driving there thinking about this thread and wondering if I had consent of not.

Are we just overthinking it? If a horse is well looked after and has a lovely 20 hours a day mooching around doing their own thing, are we OK to expect a few hours of their time a few times a week?

I currently have no idea where I stand on this. I love keeping horses as pets - both of mine most certainly are and I'm a proud 'pony patter', but I also really really love exploring the countryside on my pony, jumping, meeting with friends, fun rides etc. And i'm 99.9% sure my horse enjoys all this too, but I guess we'll never truely know. I so wish I could speak to them for a day to put my mind at ease and ask him what he truely wants. (Probably just more Fibre Nuggets!)
 
"Sandstone1 said:
I dislike vaulting. Why do people need a horse to do gymnastics? I think it’s demeaning for the horse to be used as a piece of gym equipment. Also hate to see people standing on horses"

It isnt that they need a horse to do gymnastics. It is the other way round. Before there were stirrups, solders and riders needed to vault onto their horses.
 
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