The napping youngster…

[Boughtabay]

Can someone just remind me that it does get better young man is 6 this month. I broke him in last summer and he’s been a bit backwards in general from the beginning but when he was a real newbie under saddle that would show itself as just stopping & standing like a statue. His Christmas holiday became a 3 month break (no bad thing) but boy has my baby horse come back as a spring grass filled teen much more forward now, he strides out rather than slugging along but those naps can now be … interesting. I’m of the “quietly wait it out” school and it does mostly work but if he’s really having a no moment it doesn’t matter how long you wait, he’s discovered up .. marvellous.

I have done this saga before with an older slightly damaged horse and she came to be an amazing hacker so I know there will be an end but … there will be an end right?! Currently doing a mix of waiting it out & hopping off to get past the really scary stuff (buses are scary I’ll give him that).

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I think.it doesn't matter how you get him past, so long as you and he do go past. However if you have to lead him past I would take him backwards and forwards several times then try riding him past, probably not possible with a bus, though!

 

[Barton Bounty]

Same as @Pearlsasinger it doesn’t matter that it looks pretty as long as it happens. You will get there but slowly and a lot of patience and you will get there.

 

[Boughtabay]

Yep you’re both right @Pearlsasinger @Barton Bounty getting a bit impatient to get him out and about more now the weather is better… but it’ll all be worth it in the long run as he’s a great personality, I really do HATE rearing though

 

[Barton Bounty]

Yep you’re both right @Pearlsasinger @Barton Bounty getting a bit impatient to get him out and about more now the weather is better… but it’ll all be worth it in the long run as he’s a great personality, I really do HATE rearing though

I hate rearing but that might just stop, I always am consistent, same thing in the same order at roughly the same times every day to get a routine, then they come to know what is expected of them

 

[Boughtabay]

I hate rearing but that might just stop, I always am consistent, same thing in the same order at roughly the same times every day to get a routine, then they come to know what is expected of them ☺

yes I do think he’ll grow out of it with more miles etc. he’s a bit of a funny one - brave and calm in one sense but hot and easily escalated too. Yeah I agree lots of consistent, calm & reliable learning for mr flappy legs! thanks for your input it’s nice to have some encouragement sometimes … the OH isn’t horsey so I haven’t got anyone much to soundboard off

 

[Barton Bounty]

yes I do think he’ll grow out of it with more miles etc. he’s a bit of a funny one - brave and calm in one sense but hot and easily escalated too. Yeah I agree lots of consistent, calm & reliable learning for mr flappy legs! thanks for your input it’s nice to have some encouragement sometimes … the OH isn’t horsey so I haven’t got anyone much to soundboard off

Inbox always open should always be looking on how to remedy a situation rather than pointing out what your doing wrong sometimes things arent black and white.
I can go hacking every day with no issues and then one day a really scary duck will fly out or a leave will blow no horse is perfect 100% of the time

 

[Maryann]

Stopping for a mouthful of grass at the furthest point from home can help with some horses

 

[SEL]

Yep you’re both right @Pearlsasinger @Barton Bounty getting a bit impatient to get him out and about more now the weather is better… but it’ll all be worth it in the long run as he’s a great personality, I really do HATE rearing though

My big Appy mare grew out of rearing - never out of running backwards annoyingly but she had a tonne of underlying health issues.

Babycob will be 5 in a few weeks and teenager has definitely hit with the spring grass. He's usually a complete pro at pulling in and standing still to let cars past but this morning there was "attitude". His nap can be a little rear but it's a token effort and a growl stops it thankfully. They do get over this stage!!

 

[maya2008]

My husband’s cob cross spent a lot of his first year post backing on his hind legs whenever anything worried him. Two years later and he was so safe you could put a novice on him, or a small child. He continues to be sweet and safe and gentle.

 

[Boughtabay]

Inbox always open should always be looking on how to remedy a situation rather than pointing out what your doing wrong sometimes things arent black and white.
I can go hacking every day with no issues and then one day a really scary duck will fly out or a leave will blow no horse is perfect 100% of the time

thanks so much yes good point.. i dont think he’ll be bombproof either!

 

[Boughtabay]

My husband’s cob cross spent a lot of his first year post backing on his hind legs whenever anything worried him. Two years later and he was so safe you could put a novice on him, or a small child. He continues to be sweet and safe and gentle.

ideal bit of inspiration for my little man im hoping once hes got the hang of it hell be safe as houses too

 

[Boughtabay]

Following on from this - I took little man on a long hack with a buddy this weekend. Miles of off road and plenty of uphill cantering at the start to get him going forward which he enjoyed. He behaved very well for his first real time out in a massive opens space. Still, we napped & he was braver to stand up because we were on grass which is disappointing. I’ve ridden through a rearer before and she did come good as above but I really don’t like it. Anyone got any foolproof tips for getting him to keep all 4 legs on the floor and pointing in the direction we’re going? Someone suggested the egg trick which I don’t fancy experimenting with…

Obviously saddle & teeth booked in even though they’re up to date. But given it’s always a spin & up (and if I were to let him go back the way he came he’d happily do that) I’m quite confident it’s nervous napping. ETA - it’s just sit it out and add more miles isn’t it …

 

[meesha]

If u can feel transfer of weight to back feet, spin him on spot. Mine reared bolt upright recently ..twice, first time since did it 6 years ago, was due to flash and new bit...back to french link and loose noseband and all good. Suspect 24/7 turnout has helped too !! He had me off but was in lesson and now I know the signs will try to immediately disengage hind end by turning on spot. Obv check back, saddle etc....

I'm sure there are easier hobbies lol

 

[Boughtabay]

If u can feel transfer of weight to back feet, spin him on spot. Mine reared bolt upright recently ..twice, first time since did it 6 years ago, was due to flash and new bit...back to french link and loose noseband and all good. Suspect 24/7 turnout has helped too !! He had me off but was in lesson and now I know the signs will try to immediately disengage hind end by turning on spot. Obv check back, saddle etc....

I'm sure there are easier hoboes lol

My bikes never stood up on two legs … although it has chucked me off a few times

Yes I don’t think I’m quick enough to turn his head at the moment so need to work on that … he’s not got a noseband on but I am swapping the full cheek for a loose ring snaffle because I don’t think he likes the pressure on the side of his face, not sure that will make a huge difference mind, I need quicker reactions!

 

[Nasicus]

It does get better, I promise! I finally had an absolutely lovely hack yesterday after a few weeks of baby brained protests and antics from my 5yo, but I have no doubts we've got plenty more baby brained phases to come, but they'll come right in the end, even if the light at the end of the tunnel is very dim, and the wallet get very stretched doing all the checks to make sure it is just baby brains and not an actual issue!

 

[TPO]

No eggs!

Simple but not easy...you need to get control of his legs, specifically hinds, and be able to disengage his hindquarters.

This starts with groundwork before transferring to ridden work in the arena and then hacking.

I'm 99% certain that the book "how to unlock your horse's talent in 20 mins a day" by Richard Maxwell covers this exact scenario, with pictures.

It would also be worthwhile looking into the likes of Warwick Schiller, Joe Midgley, Jason Webb along with Richard Maxwell. All have some free content online (WS the most on youtube) and have online video subscription services. They are a starter for ten, if you don't have a trainer to help, to build a solid foundation.

*disclaimer- assuming horse isn't in any pain or discomfort, all tack fits etc. It's at th4 forefront of my mind because of something that's just happened to me but despite using a qualified EDT very regularly something serious has been missed. This is down to an EDT not being able to sedate and a horse really needing to be sedated to thoroughly exam the mouth. Until the vet saw my horse on Friday for a routine dental I'd have happily told anyone my horse had no mouth pain and that EDT did a good job.

 

[eggs]

Assuming it isn't a physical issue I agree with meesha - one of mine has perfected the nappy rear and spinning him in tight circles the minute he thinks about it stops it escalating and then he is happy to go forwards.

 

[Boughtabay]

Thanks guys - taking it all on board and adding it to my box of tricks. He’s a very green newly 6yo (I waited until he was 5 to lightly back) so definitely a mix of baby brain and teenage tantrums going on it was all so easy last year when he was a little timid baby & his napping was just a statue impression we do a fair bit of groundwork as he can be a handful on the ground when he gets an idea so that’s useful.

He’s a PREx welsh and I was under the impression the PRE’s were cool cucumbers (I don’t know why…) and that would tempter the welshness… but everyone I’ve told face to face what he is has looked absolutely horrified SO maybe that doesn’t help

ETA - obviously joking about the breeding being the cause

 

[maya2008]

I tried every trick available in every book and internet search. I wish I could tell you they worked. Our cob could rear with his head down, while spinning. We ended up with a slightly tamer (and less messy) version of the egg trick. I was out of other options and he needed to be safe, like, pronto. It worked fine. He’s not the brightest and it was a good fix for him. It’s not without its dangers though - a horse could very well get angry, rear higher, up and over. One of my previous mares would have done just that - but she was happy to stop going up when spun so that worked for her.

If it’s worrying you, get someone out. They’ll be able to run through all possible options, pick one that works and then show you what to do.

 

[SEL]

Is there something specific causing the nap? Baby cobs is if he is unsure of something and I won't let him turn for home - we get the mini rears then. He's the type you can ask him to wait and then he gets his head together.

The Appy was a different horse altogether. For someone who turned out to have issues with her back end she couldn't half get some height with her rears. It was always when her brain couldn't cope with a situation and rather than waiting and listening to me she'd work herself up into a tizz and it was hard to bring her adrenaline down. Made no difference if we had another horse with us either. But she had an underlying condition and I suspect was dealing with it to a certain extent but add a stressful situation on top of a level of discomfort and her fight / flight response was triggered. She is 13 shortly and loads better than she was at 5/6 but I think will always have that ability to completely over react - but there is the pain issue.

 

[Patterdale]

I am of a different school of thought. Waiting it out is doing it on their terms. For me, as soon as I feel the hint of the start of a THOUGHT of a nap, they are sent VERY strongly forward with no chance to resist. Even if 5 mins later I get off and think ‘this horse isn’t right I’ll get it investigated’ I never let them get past that first thought of starting to nap.

Napping turns downright dangerous and a horse that learns it can nap will soon try allsorts to get out of work.
You just can’t let them do it.

 

[IrishMilo]

I am of a different school of thought. Waiting it out is doing it on their terms. For me, as soon as I feel the hint of the start of a THOUGHT of a nap, they are sent VERY strongly forward with no chance to resist. Even if 5 mins later I get off and think ‘this horse isn’t right I’ll get it investigated’ I never let them get past that first thought of starting to nap.

Napping turns downright dangerous and a horse that learns it can nap will soon try allsorts to get out of work.
You just can’t let them do it.

+1. The problem with sitting and waiting it out is that all they learn is... nothing. If you want the horse to go forward it should, no ifs or buts. I'm all for letting them stop and assess for a few seconds and a pat to reassure but after that I'll start to get very annoying for them...

 

[Suncat]

Thanks guys - taking it all on board and adding it to my box of tricks. He’s a very green newly 6yo (I waited until he was 5 to lightly back) so definitely a mix of baby brain and teenage tantrums going on it was all so easy last year when he was a little timid baby & his napping was just a statue impression we do a fair bit of groundwork as he can be a handful on the ground when he gets an idea so that’s useful.

He’s a PREx welsh and I was under the impression the PRE’s were cool cucumbers (I don’t know why…) and that would tempter the welshness… but everyone I’ve told face to face what he is has looked absolutely horrified SO maybe that doesn’t help

ETA - obviously joking about the breeding being the cause

lots of good advice above, and what a great cross (PRE x Welsh) - you'd hope for a Turbo Cob and yes... that the PRE's focus on their person would temper the Welsh's focus on their own plans, while keeping the cleverness and all round ability of both.

My youngster (partbred PRE, no idea what the other 8th is) is the same on the freeze/stop and can't be 'forced' past his concerns. Building his confidence, experience and coping skills is paying off though. And the tools to get him past what ever it is... we are doing what I need, but we can do it it your timeline (which is now getting shorter and shorter).

 

[Boughtabay]

I mean part of “waiting it out” is still to consistently ASK for forwards - that’s the end goal and if you don’t ask for it you don’t get it … but asking for forwards when you’re zooming backwards does get a bit demoralising nonetheless and I agree, if he’s asked to go forwards he should go forwards - herein lies the issue that started the whole thread but I’m not cracking eggs on his head or carrying a stick so, I keep on carrying on and he will stop. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a frustrating learning process now he knows the tricks though.

 

[paddi22]

i find doing turn on the forehand repeatedly works for possibly rear-y nappers. the turning disengages them so they can't go up. i usually end up circling a few times and then letting them go forward as soon as I can. they soon learn its easier to go forward than to stop and have to work.

 

[Patterdale]

I don’t ask for forwards with a napping horse though. I tell it.
But if you’re not prepared to take charge, or carry a stick, then you need to resign yourself to the fact that this horse, the previous horse and future horses will take charge instead and nap with you - sounds a bit mean I know, but that’s just the bare truth of the matter.

It’s kinder to them AND to yourself to tell them properly once and solve the matter, rather than every hack be a stressful experience.

 

[Boughtabay]

i find doing turn on the forehand repeatedly works for possibly rear-y nappers. the turning disengages them so they can't go up. i usually end up circling a few times and then letting them go forward as soon as I can. they soon learn its easier to go forward than to stop and have to work.

Yes it definitely does work and he is getting better it’s just that’s the reaction to anxiety and it’s frustrating, but we move!

 

[Boughtabay]

I don’t ask for forwards with a napping horse though. I tell it.
But if you’re not prepared to take charge, or carry a stick, then you need to resign yourself to the fact that this horse, the previous horse and future horses will take charge instead and nap with you - sounds a bit mean I know, but that’s just the bare truth of the matter.

It’s kinder to them AND to yourself to tell them properly once and solve the matter, rather than every hack be a stressful experience.

To each their own (or apparently not on the internet ). The previous horse is long dead just FYI and came from a dealer cheap as a backflipper and took about a year to become a totally unflappable hack (ETA not a year to stop backflipping but a year to be basically bombproof) never rode her with a stick either in the 11 years I had her. but please, make more sweeping statements based on not really much info! I came to vent, asked for some tips - got some (most of those with a knowing chuckle of support too) - no need to take it any other direction to be honest!

 

[VRIN]

Have you tried carrying a small water pistol? I found just a quick squirt towards his neck was very effective - water didn't even need to touch him and it just got him thinking more forward.