The Ozzy Diaries

[smolmaus]

Tbh I think yous already have the right solution, lead him for a bit and then get on. Or as dorsetladette says, mount away from the sticking place. We get a bit sticky if I mount on the yard and then ask her to go through the gate so I bring a little step stool to the gate, walk through and then get on in the driveway. At my last yard I would close the gate behind us then mount from the gate. No arguments, no starting the ride off with conflict, easy peasy. I did force the issue a few times but tbh it just gets everybody wound up and frustrated, even if the human does "win" in the end and it's not worth it for me. Can you hide a step stool in the hedge just down the lane?

Lots of praise when he does walk off when asked, he will get it eventually. We also trained something I call a 1-2. Planting is our no.1 spook behaviour so if there is something scary or she's uneasy she is asked for two steps, I say 1-2 and then ask for a halt and she gets a reward. We do 1-2's until she is focused enough to put her brain back in. We started this in the spooky arena corner but it works on a hack now as well. It's not just a "walk on" it's a "just give me 2 steps" which is easier. That won't work straight off the mounting block of course if he is really stuck but if he is an anxious planter it's a handy thing to have in the toolbox.

 

[tristars]

August 21

MY first ride on Ozzy! (Well, not exactly...)

Ozzy has been doing well since the vet's visit last week and was surprisingly quick to forgive us.
Overall, he is becoming increasingly a little more trusting week by week.

However, the napping has got worse over the past fortnight. Generally, he plants just after the mounting block and won't move.
So today I said I'd get on him for the first time just to see if he was different for me.
Well, he wasn't - he was just the same. OH was riding AJ. Ozzy didn't care. It doesn't matter which horse we leave behind, Ozzy wants to stay with them rather than go out.
I decided to wait for a while with AJ in front of us. I would then ask him to move off. Nope, he wasn't having any of it.

So we have this routine now where one of us rides AJ or Snoopy and the other leads Ozzy down the lane to the road. He is then ridden back home.

I've had horses that nap before but Ozzy is a little different. With others, there has been a clear indication of discomfort or unhappiness. None of this with Ozzy. He is so happy to be groomed and tacked up. He stands beautifully at the mounting block. He feels incredibly calm and chilled.
Even when he is mounted at the bench near the loch before being ridden back, he is calm and compliant.
When he is being ridden back, he moves really nicely. The lane is quite gravelly and probably a little more uncomfortable than the road, but he doesn't look particularly sore or uneven/hesitant. He looks calm and happy with not the slightest sign of anxiety. He doesn't do anything silly or spooky at all. He'll go in front or behind, no problem.

He just doesn't want to move off from the mounting block at home!

What we haven't done is pony club kicks or using the whip forcefully. I would prefer not to resort to this approach.
For now, we're just going to persevere and keep things positive - but if anyone has any strategies we've not yet tried, I'd be very interested!

I would not allow this.

I would lead to block inhand, do not mount, I would have bucket with fav treat plus food etc, held by a helper in front of oz, stop at block, ask to walk on, wave bucket in front of oz he should follow bucket, at the same time as saying walk on, repeat until sharp response develops, then walk on out of yard allow to graze or go on inhand hack

You need to get to him to respond quicker so he doesn't get time to decide he can try it on.

Don't forget the polos,

No need to beat him up, sometimes a very long whip to give the lightest touch on top of the quarters startles them into moving the feet. But needs Co ordination of timing with vocal commands and tug on rope.

I have a cob, my first so I now know what they can do, but all ours line up at the block, stand nicely, and are ready to go at the slightest touch.

I'd do the inhand training bit before he develops the habit too much, I try to nip every wrong step in the bud, but sure you will get over this, do the inhand thing first then if that is good, mount but have someone with the bucket ready, few feet in front of oz, when the rider trainer says walk on the bucket holder shakes bucket and walks on, in front, you need a helper who is switched on

 

[Nancykitt]

Tbh I think yous already have the right solution, lead him for a bit and then get on. Or as dorsetladette says, mount away from the sticking place. We get a bit sticky if I mount on the yard and then ask her to go through the gate so I bring a little step stool to the gate, walk through and then get on in the driveway. At my last yard I would close the gate behind us then mount from the gate. No arguments, no starting the ride off with conflict, easy peasy. I did force the issue a few times but tbh it just gets everybody wound up and frustrated, even if the human does "win" in the end and it's not worth it for me. Can you hide a step stool in the hedge just down the lane?

Lots of praise when he does walk off when asked, he will get it eventually. We also trained something I call a 1-2. Planting is our no.1 spook behaviour so if there is something scary or she's uneasy she is asked for two steps, I say 1-2 and then ask for a halt and she gets a reward. We do 1-2's until she is focused enough to put her brain back in. We started this in the spooky arena corner but it works on a hack now as well. It's not just a "walk on" it's a "just give me 2 steps" which is easier. That won't work straight off the mounting block of course if he is really stuck but if he is an anxious planter it's a handy thing to have in the toolbox.

Thank you! I agree 100% that keeping it positive and avoiding conflict is essential. There isn't anywhere down the lane that I could easily hide a step but the benches out on the main road are good for this.
I like the idea of the 1-2. When OH does the groundwork with Ozzy, he gets him to step back through a vocal cue and pointing to the space he wants Ozzy to move out of. Ozzy is very good at this now. When I feed Ozzy, I do the same sort of thing - point to the ground, vocal cue and then I count '1 - 2 - 3'; he takes three steps back and then gets his feed. He is a quick learner and we don't have any fuss with this routine so I might look at extending the idea to encourage him to move forward, coupled with a similar approach to forward movement in the groundwork.

ETA - we were saying this morning that the napping has certainly worsened since the arrival of the haybell, which is Ozzy's favourite thing in the whole world.

 

[Nancykitt]

I would not allow this.

I would lead to block inhand, do not mount, I would have bucket with fav treat plus food etc, held by a helper in front of oz, stop at block, ask to walk on, wave bucket in front of oz he should follow bucket, at the same time as saying walk on, repeat until sharp response develops, then walk on out of yard allow to graze or go on inhand hack

We tried this and it he was OK. We tacked him up, led him to the block, stopped, walked on.
I noticed that on one of the videos of Ozzy posted in the auction advert his rider says 'Walk on please' before mounting - I tried this and it worked fine.
Getting him to move off once mounted is the issue. If he is being simultaneously led, he may be better - we're going to give it a try.
Given his recent issues with food aggression and biting, I would be slightly reluctant to use a feed bucket out of the field. (It probably wouldn't go down well with the other horse either).
We are only just re-introducing treats now that he seems to have got over the biting phase. However, a treat for moving off (which would have to be administered by the other person who is likely to be mounted) might be a very good idea!
Part of our problem is that there are only two of us and it's very difficult to enlist the help of someone else at the times when we're riding. So we always have two horses out of the field and one in the field.
Ozzy seems to be clever and has made a lot of progress with some things since he arrived so we just need to get him over this glitch!

 

[smolmaus]

Thank you! I agree 100% that keeping it positive and avoiding conflict is essential. There isn't anywhere down the lane that I could easily hide a step but the benches out on the main road are good for this.
I like the idea of the 1-2. When OH does the groundwork with Ozzy, he gets him to step back through a vocal cue and pointing to the space he wants Ozzy to move out of. Ozzy is very good at this now. When I feed Ozzy, I do the same sort of thing - point to the ground, vocal cue and then I count '1 - 2 - 3'; he takes three steps back and then gets his feed. He is a quick learner and we don't have any fuss with this routine so I might look at extending the idea to encourage him to move forward, coupled with a similar approach to forward movement in the groundwork.

ETA - we were saying this morning that the napping has certainly worsened since the arrival of the haybell, which is Ozzy's favourite thing in the whole world.

Yes that's a great plan! ❤ I use a point to the ground as "come here" which is also very handy, horse with (limited) recall the raised hand people use when they're teaching "pick me up" from the mounting block might be a good one?

He is just telling you how much he loves his haybell and his friends and his new home

 

[little_critter]

Tbh I think yous already have the right solution, lead him for a bit and then get on. Or as dorsetladette says, mount away from the sticking place. We get a bit sticky if I mount on the yard and then ask her to go through the gate so I bring a little step stool to the gate, walk through and then get on in the driveway. At my last yard I would close the gate behind us then mount from the gate. No arguments, no starting the ride off with conflict, easy peasy. I did force the issue a few times but tbh it just gets everybody wound up and frustrated, even if the human does "win" in the end and it's not worth it for me. Can you hide a step stool in the hedge just down the lane?

Lots of praise when he does walk off when asked, he will get it eventually. We also trained something I call a 1-2. Planting is our no.1 spook behaviour so if there is something scary or she's uneasy she is asked for two steps, I say 1-2 and then ask for a halt and she gets a reward. We do 1-2's until she is focused enough to put her brain back in. We started this in the spooky arena corner but it works on a hack now as well. It's not just a "walk on" it's a "just give me 2 steps" which is easier. That won't work straight off the mounting block of course if he is really stuck but if he is an anxious planter it's a handy thing to have in the toolbox.

I was going to suggest similar - break it down into tiny chunks. Only ask for 2 (or maybe even 1) step, lots of praise, get off, put him away (and leave him)
Then 2-3 steps, praise, put away.
Then 5 steps, praise, put away.
etc etc
It will be a PITA tacking him up for a 2 step hack but hopefully he will realise that what you are asking is reasonable and achievable and you can build up the distance until it's no longer an issue.
If you do clicker training you could get him to target a cone a horses length from him so he can easily see that he has an end point he is aiming for. Then gradually move the cone further away until distance is no longer an issue.

 

[tristars]

My cob was super agressive with other horses, he is now pretty good, he was same with people and would bite nibble, but I persisted, had to be very focused all the time so he did not get you, but I was not willing to give in and let him lead

I do carrott stretches with him. He's a bit like a crocodile, you need to be quick. To stop treating I say no, grab the headcollar and clip him to the tie up point so he learns to control himself and stop using his teeth just for a minute, till he settles and his mind processes it finished, oh and to start with he was so switched on and fidgety I was shattered by the time he was tacked up. He would try to crush you up a wall, move around but better now, although still rumages in everything he can reach, but he has a heart of gold and is world away from how he was to start, and so much more relaxed

I would make special times to train oz without the other horse, juston his own, say 20 mins, then get other horse ready and go from there

I think it's super important to get over this, it's the basis of all training to go forwards when asked, in case of hacking out and needing to move quickly out of the way, I personally never ride a horse out until it knows how move on without question and move sideways instantly, and always ride out youngsters on their own to start to get the habits firmly entrenched in the horses own mind

I would be bold here and when sitting on board have the leader and bucket and ask ask for walk on and continue and ride straight out of the yard and off down the road for a short hack including the helper and the bucket, , who must remain well infront at all times, it's not something difficult he is being asked, it very basic, and i would not pxss around, but only after the initial establishment of the inhand work


I do think longreining could be good but only if done confidently

 

[Exasperated]

My cob was super agressive with other horses, he is now pretty good, he was same with people and would bite nibble, but I persisted, had to be very focused all the time so he did not get you, but I was not willing to give in and let him lead

I do carrott stretches with him. He's a bit like a crocodile, you need to be quick. To stop treating I say no, grab the headcollar and clip him to the tie up point so he learns to control himself and stop using his teeth just for a minute, till he settles and his mind processes it finished, oh and to start with he was so switched on and fidgety I was shattered by the time he was tacked up. He would try to crush you up a wall, move around but better now, although still rumages in everything he can reach, but he has a heart of gold and is world away from how he was to start, and so much more relaxed

I would make special times to train oz without the other horse, juston his own, say 20 mins, then get other horse ready and go from there

I think it's super important to get over this, it's the basis of all training to go forwards when asked, in case of hacking out and needing to move quickly out of the way, I personally never ride a horse out until it knows how move on without question and move sideways instantly, and always ride out youngsters on their own to start to get the habits firmly entrenched in the horses own mind

I would be bold here and when sitting on board have the leader and bucket and ask ask for walk on and continue and ride straight out of the yard and off down the road for a short hack including the helper and the bucket, , who must remain well infront at all times, it's not something difficult he is being asked, it very basic, and i would not pxss around, but only after the initial establishment of the inhand work


I do think longreining could be good but only if done confidently

Long reining can be excellent, for all sorts of issues and reasons.
Have Nancy & OH got experience with long lines?
Can they practise on either of the other ponies (hopefully been trained with this at some stage)?
Because Ozzy has form - biting, planting and kicking - when he doesn’t feel like complying with whatever is being requested -
and if he uses one of his already-tried-and-tested-avoidance-techniques, particularly if he also backs up towards the handler, I don’t think they will be able to cope, given their ‘ethos’, and could get hurt. Badly hurt.

 

[Exasperated]

Yes that's a great plan! ❤ I use a point to the ground as "come here" which is also very handy, horse with (limited) recall the raised hand people use when they're teaching "pick me up" from the mounting block might be a good one?

He is just telling you how much he loves his haybell and his friends and his new home

Hmm, you don’t think instead that Ozzy might be communicating he is fully confident in his new home, with his new friends, his new humans, that his hooves are now firmly under his table, doing exactly what he prefers, and that anyone with any other ideas can just take a running jump? Helped on their way; if they persist and it becomes necessary; by one of his hooves?
I’m all for bribery and patience, but God give me strength....

 

[Exasperated]

I was going to suggest similar - break it down into tiny chunks. Only ask for 2 (or maybe even 1) step, lots of praise, get off, put him away (and leave him)
Then 2-3 steps, praise, put away.
Then 5 steps, praise, put away.
etc etc
It will be a PITA tacking him up for a 2 step hack but hopefully he will realise that what you are asking is reasonable and achievable and you can build up the distance until it's no longer an issue.
If you do clicker training you could get him to target a cone a horses length from him so he can easily see that he has an end point he is aiming for. Then gradually move the cone further away until distance is no longer an issue.

You’re not serious?!
John MacEnroe, we need you, you are sorely needed, you really, really are.

 

[Nancykitt]

Long reining can be excellent, for all sorts of issues and reasons.
Have Nancy & OH got experience with long lines?
Can they practise on either of the other ponies (hopefully been trained with this at some stage)?
Because Ozzy has form - biting, planting and kicking - when he doesn’t feel like complying with whatever is being requested -
and if he uses one of his already-tried-and-tested-avoidance-techniques, particularly if he also backs up towards the handler, I don’t think they will be able to cope, given their ‘ethos’, and could get hurt. Badly hurt.

Neither of us have much experience with long reining. I'm not ruling it out - I'd need to buy some lines - but we're trying a few other approaches too.
Today I got on Ozzy and managed to get him about 10 metres further down the track than yesterday before he stopped. So that's a bit of progress, I suppose, and he was praised for going forward! Then he went out on his own with OH leading him. He was fine with this. I stayed at the field - and then when they were half way down the lane, I got on Snoopy and caught up with them. OH then got on Ozzy and he was really good. We rode both horses along the road a little and then home. When he is on the road back home he is pretty much perfect - super alert but calm, sensible and listening to the rider.
So the focus is on getting him to the end of our track. Tomorrow we're going to try a slightly different approach.

The last napping horse I knew didn't plant but was very argumentative and super-tense. Running backwards, spinning, fighting, head in the air, bunny hops. In one respect at least the horse is moving (and you've got a chance to get it going in the right direction!) but it was generally horrible and much more scary than planting.


Obviously it's a bit frustrating but I would be a lot more worried if his behaviour in general hadn't improved. He hasn't done any biting at all since the haybell arrived. He is now very nice and compliant to handle in general and will stand very calmly when tied up. Although he was kicking when under sedation last week, he hasn't kicked - or even threatened - since then.
I would also be more worried if he was bad in traffic, anxious, spooky...he is actually a lovely cob to ride once he gets beyond the track!

ETA - when my daughter was riding a young Snoopy many years ago, he refused to go forward in the arena (but could go backwards at impressive speed!).
Our instructor used two schooling whips, one in each hand. simultaneously touching him behind the leg (not hitting). This worked really well. My daughter called it the 'double whippy' technique and she only needed to use it a few times before he got the idea - coupled with clear praise when he responded by going forward.

 

[tristars]

Did not suggest they should long rein unless confident, i have no idea if they are or not

If it was my horse it would be lunged and long reined a few times a week then go out in hand until I was confident it had all sunk in mainly that when asked to move he moves

So many horses do not get the prep work they need before backing, and then the riders have to keep up the maintenence as well

 

[tristars]

Long reining can be excellent, for all sorts of issues and reasons.
Have Nancy & OH got experience with long lines?
Can they practise on either of the other ponies (hopefully been trained with this at some stage)?
Because Ozzy has form - biting, planting and kicking - when he doesn’t feel like complying with whatever is being requested -
and if he uses one of his already-tried-and-tested-avoidance-techniques, particularly if he also backs up towards the handler, I don’t think they will be able to cope, given their ‘ethos’, and could get hurt. Badly hurt.

Don't ask me i don't know!

But he has generally improved , its no good long reining if you don't have the skill and can react as needed

They aren't novices and surely can decide which suggestions may suit their skill sets

 

[paddy555]

Hmm, you don’t think instead that Ozzy might be communicating he is fully confident in his new home, with his new friends, his new humans, that his hooves are now firmly under his table, doing exactly what he prefers, and that anyone with any other ideas can just take a running jump? Helped on their way; if they persist and it becomes necessary; by one of his hooves?
I’m all for bribery and patience, but God give me strength....

totally. Ozzy may walk back down the track home but then what idiot wouldn't if he was going in the direction of treats, his friends and his hayball. The test would be to ride him down the track home and then turn him round and go the other way.
Ozzy is quite simply saying no I don't feel like riding and is being disobedient. Why would you reward him for walking a couple of steps or at all when he is being naughty. He has already proved he could do a ride with NK's OH when he first came. He is not a horse that cannot. He is a horse that CBA He is asking the question now as to "what happens if I don't:" and he is getting the answer "not very much but walk a couple of steps and you can have some treats/praise or both" He is not the first horse in a new home trying this on nor will he be the last.

The answer he needs is "I am going to put on my brave pants, get on, I am totally determined you are going to do this ride somehow or other. No standing around, straight up into the saddle and let's go. I don't care if you do it backwards, forwards, sideways or any other way but do it you will"

I was going to suggest similar - break it down into tiny chunks. Only ask for 2 (or maybe even 1) step, lots of praise, get off, put him away (and leave him)

It will be a PITA tacking him up for a 2 step hack but hopefully he will realise that what you are asking is reasonable and achievable

.

of course he will see 2 steps is reasonable. It will only take a few minutes and then back to his stay. As Exasperated said "you are not serious?

Why on earth not just get on and ride him. He is quite rideable. The longer it goes on the more his feet will be under the table and the harder it will be to get him riding out.

If OP doesn't have much experience of long reining that will not work in this case.

 

[Nancykitt]

Ozzy is quite simply saying no I don't feel like riding and is being disobedient. Why would you reward him for walking a couple of steps or at all when he is being naughty. He has already proved he could do a ride with NK's OH when he first came. He is not a horse that cannot. He is a horse that CBA He is asking the question now as to "what happens if I don't:" and he is getting the answer "not very much but walk a couple of steps and you can have some treats/praise or both" He is not the first horse in a new home trying this on nor will he be the last.

I think you are right about his mindset, but to be fair, every time he is tacked up he does end up going out and does end up being ridden. Going back into the field is not an option and OH is very consistent about this. Part of the reason is that exercise isn't optional for Ozzy, he has CPL and will need to go out whenever the weather allows it. He knows that if he won't go to the end of our track with a rider, he's going to be led to the track and then ridden.
It's not yet good enough and we know that we'll probably have to try a number of strategies, but he is not rewarded in any way for the planting. He is only rewarded for going forward.

He's clearly going to be happier going in the direction of home, but I mentioned his behaviour when riding back home simply because there's no indication of pain/discomfort/anxiety and he goes very nicely - he's forward but not silly, sharp or spooky. If there was any sign that he was unhappy with his tack, or not moving well, I would be looking at that - but all the indicators are simply pointing to a very stubborn cob!

 

[tristars]

I would get him lunging so he goes forwards on his own, and do so before riding, just a little to loosen and go forwards, then on days off lunge a little it does not have be much, when he gets the idea intro trotting poles which can open them up and also small jumps, all about going forwards when asked

 

[Exasperated]

Neither of us have much experience with long reining. I'm not ruling it out - I'd need to buy some lines - but we're trying a few other approaches too.
Today I got on Ozzy and managed to get him about 10 metres further down the track than yesterday before he stopped. So that's a bit of progress, I suppose, and he was praised for going forward! Then he went out on his own with OH leading him. He was fine with this. I stayed at the field - and then when they were half way down the lane, I got on Snoopy and caught up with them. OH then got on Ozzy and he was really good. We rode both horses along the road a little and then home. When he is on the road back home he is pretty much perfect - super alert but calm, sensible and listening to the rider.
So the focus is on getting him to the end of our track. Tomorrow we're going to try a slightly different approach.

The last napping horse I knew didn't plant but was very argumentative and super-tense. Running backwards, spinning, fighting, head in the air, bunny hops. In one respect at least the horse is moving (and you've got a chance to get it going in the right direction!) but it was generally horrible and much more scary than planting.


Obviously it's a bit frustrating but I would be a lot more worried if his behaviour in general hadn't improved. He hasn't done any biting at all since the haybell arrived. He is now very nice and compliant to handle in general and will stand very calmly when tied up. Although he was kicking when under sedation last week, he hasn't kicked - or even threatened - since then.
I would also be more worried if he was bad in traffic, anxious, spooky...he is actually a lovely cob to ride once he gets beyond the track!

ETA - when my daughter was riding a young Snoopy many years ago, he refused to go forward in the arena (but could go backwards at impressive speed!).
Our instructor used two schooling whips, one in each hand. simultaneously touching him behind the leg (not hitting). This worked really well. My daughter called it the 'double whippy' technique and she only needed to use it a few times before he got the idea - coupled with clear praise when he responded by going forward.

Long lines - practise on the others if you wish, but don’t put yourself in danger, it’s not necessary.
Ozzy is a mature riding horse, he has done this, he was bought for this, he should be doing this, now - unless you have a compelling veterinary / pathological reason why he shouldn’t?
I hope you are right and he never kicks or bites anyone ever again (and if you’re convinced biting was caused by genuine ‘hunger’, ok, the trigger was your bad management, altho he hardly looks emaciated on his photos)
Fully agree about the traffic (extremely difficult to overcome those fears),
and yes - that is exactly what you bought him for, to enjoy actually riding him out and about, not piddling about on your drive.
Get the two schooling whips out ASAP, I’m quite certain that Ozzy will have seen / heard these swishing about in his earlier existence, and for goodness sake the four of you get straight off for a nice hack somewhere. Insist.
There’s a very fair chance Ozzy will thoroughly enjoy an outing, although he’s probably enjoyed exercising his authority, too, but what will you do when all these treats and forage pile on the pounds and necessitate his ridden exercise? Sorry, but this cob has got to go when and where you need him to, not when he may or may not feel inclined.
By the way, his slightly smaller, slightly younger, doppelganger is currently advertised on ‘free ads’, being extensively handled with confidence….maybe show Oz the ad and invoke his shame or conscience?!

 

[Nancykitt]

I hope you are right and he never kicks or bites anyone ever again (and if you’re convinced biting was caused by genuine ‘hunger’, ok, the trigger was your bad management, altho he hardly looks emaciated on his photos)

Well, yes - he's much better - but we're not complacent and we watch him carefully.
He has certainly put on weight over the last two months - but he did need to put it on.

There’s a very fair chance Ozzy will thoroughly enjoy an outing, although he’s probably enjoyed exercising his authority, too, but what will you do when all these treats and forage pile on the pounds and necessitate his ridden exercise? Sorry, but this cob has got to go when and where you need him to, not when he may or may not feel inclined.

He actually does seem to like being on the main route through the village!
The plan is that Ozzy goes out every day that riding is possible, alternating AJ and Snoopy as companion. Ozzy is 8 but is actually very green in some ways and we think he's led quite a sheltered life. It's possible that all of his hacking in the past was solo, but there's no reason why he shouldn't be equally happy with a fieldmate out on a hack.

Get the two schooling whips out ASAP, I’m quite certain that Ozzy will have seen / heard these swishing about in his earlier existence, and for goodness sake the four of you get straight off for a nice hack somewhere. Insist.

Yes, we may well be moving on to 'double whippy' next week (I'll need to get another schooling whip, we only have one at the moment!)

The last 7 weeks have been a bit of a roller coaster but I do feel I've learnt a lot from dealing with Ozzy.

 

[tristars]

We have no idea what initial training oz had or the duration

The fact he may be trying it on suggests he did not have a thorough education initially so filling in the holes would be a good foundation there to return to as and when needed

With all pony problems I have i look to myself first, what did I do wrong, reacting at the right moment very often avoids problems ever starting, sorry don't mean you did it wrong, but you know what I'm saying

I don't think whipping him is the answer, apart from the fact he may rocket you into the middle of next week training, him is the long term solution, make sure he understands the question, and that he needs to give the right answer

I have had horses who actually started off very backwards thinking and though, proper training and work, which gradually fittened them for the job they transformed completely

 

[planete]

I would be very weary of trying any method which might degenerate into a fight as your primary aim should be to build up this horse's confidence in you. I have no advice as only you and your OH know at any time exactly how you feel and how Ozzy feels. Experience in reading the horse in front of you at the time and reacting appropriately cannot be instilled via a forum. So far you are keeping yourselves and the horse safe and making progress, that is all that matters. How long it takes is irrelevant. I have a 13.2 Ozzy here, he is now one of my best friends and tries his hardest to do what he thinks I would like him to do. I have never forced him into anything just listened to him and built up his skills at a pace that suited him. Let us face it, I am 78 and weigh just over 7 stone, I would be an idiot to try and make him do anything I have not thoroughly prepared him for so that he finds it easy to say yes.

 

[Nancykitt]

I don't think whipping him is the answer, apart from the fact he may rocket you into the middle of next week

Oh, I absolutely agree! The reference to 'double whippy' was simply the technique used by our instructor years ago to persuade Snoopy to go forwards in the arena. It doesn't actually involve whipping at all, just carrying a schooling whip in each hand and simultaneously flicking to back up the leg. It worked brilliantly with Snoopy, but his issue was a little different to Ozzy's. It may not work with Ozzy at all.

I would be very weary of trying any method which might degenerate into a fight as your primary aim should be to build up this horse's confidence in you.

This has been our approach with Ozzy from day 1. We are really happy with his progress overall - it is literally this one issue that we need to sort out.
He's shown that he does respond to firm, consistent but sympathetic handling. It may take longer at times but building trust has been a priority.
Using a whip to cause pain is not, and will never be, on the agenda. Similarly, booting him in the ribs is not an option (and I very much doubt it would work anyway).
However, upping the assertiveness through voice cues, tone of voice etc will be our next move, combined with praise/reassurance when he makes the right choices.

 

[paddy555]

I don't think whipping him is the answer, apart from the fact he may rocket you into the middle of next weekally fittened them for the job they transformed completely

your'e not actually whipping the horse you are using the long schooling whip to create momentum, whipping your boot so it makes a noise, whipping the air to produce swishing to wake him up and make the point of forward movement. I don't think anyone is suggesting beating Ozzy

 

[Peglo]

Just another option to throw out there for planting is gentle nagging.

Tap tap taping his side as an irritant rather than putting pressure on with your legs and as soon as he moves forward the tapping stops.

This may not be suitable for Oz atm and it sounds like you’re doing well by keeping everything positive right now but just putting it out there.

 

[Nancykitt]

Just another option to throw out there for planting is gentle nagging.

Tap tap taping his side as an irritant rather than putting pressure on with your legs and as soon as he moves forward the tapping stops.

This may not be suitable for Oz atm and it sounds like you’re doing well by keeping everything positive right now but just putting it out there.

This is on the list - basically making it so that moving forward is the most comfortable option and planting is the least comfortable.

He can certainly move beautifully when he wants to. We've just put a new bale under the haybell and one of my jobs is to keep the horses away from it until it's ready for them. I do this with a water pistol and it turns into a game where they turn and trot off, then sneak back again. At one point they all did a sort of synchronised canter and it was quite the thing to behold - Ozzy's canter especially!

 

[tristars]

I would be very weary of trying any method which might degenerate into a fight as your primary aim should be to build up this horse's confidence in you. I have no advice as only you and your OH know at any time exactly how you feel and how Ozzy feels. Experience in reading the horse in front of you at the time and reacting appropriately cannot be instilled via a forum. So far you are keeping yourselves and the horse safe and making progress, that is all that matters. How long it takes is irrelevant. I have a 13.2 Ozzy here, he is now one of my best friends and tries his hardest to do what he thinks I would like him to do. I have never forced him into anything just listened to him and built up his skills at a pace that suited him. Let us face it, I am 78 and weigh just over 7 stone, I would be an idiot to try and make him do anything I have not thoroughly prepared him for so that he finds it easy to say yes.

Wise words

 

[tristars]

Oh I didn't think you were going to thrash him! Really

But thought it worth saying, I'd see he reacts to the whip before using by touching all over gently see if its gonna work from the ground first if you go ahead

 

[little_critter]

Nancykitt I think you are heading in the right direction and just need to plug away and give it time.
Sounds like you are doing a great job, don’t doubt yourself.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I think your doing a great job and just keep doing what your doing . As you say he’s not taken back to the field when he’s doing this , so hasn’t actually avoided work just gone around it a different way.

I know most posters mean well , but some are very patronising, ignore. You have done a great things for Ozzie.

And as for the biting , for goodness sake it was once , anticipating treats , no blood shed

 

[ihatework]

There is all sorts of advice here, and plenty to try out.

One other thing to add to the list is to sit it out (be warned, keep the day clear!)

Face him the way you want to go. Keep him facing that way, he’ll likely try to turn and/or go backwards.

Keep you leg lightly on. Every couple of minutes ask him to go. Any forward attempt is praised. Stay completely emotionally neutral!

It can take a very long time over a number of days, but there is one that sticks in my mind that this was very effective on. He was a smart cookie that one.

 

[Boulty]

I think the idea of getting someone to lead him past his sticky spot with you onboard sounds like a good idea that, as you know he’ll lead from the ground fine, is likely to work & hopefully will get him out of the habit of planting at the block (leading him out of the yard & using a bench down the road equally valid). Might be easier for your OH to lead both horses from ground depending on how experienced at ride & lead ( although if the answer is “very” then ignore this suggestion!)

At some point he will accept that yes his life does in fact include a small amount of work and that is the “price” of 24/7 access to his beloved haybell the rest of the time (& work isn’t that bad really!)