The Ozzy Diaries

smolmaus said:
This is a very serious reaction, and being upset, scared and unsure is absolutely 100% reasonable. But I don't think I would agree that nothing has changed, he has had several weeks off and things can change in his body in that time frame. For a reaction of this magnitude I would be thinking there is pain somewhere. That just isn't normal.
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We have just been discussing the possibility of him being in pain.
Yesterday he was cantering in the field playing with AJ, they were throwing a few shapes (as they often do).
He's now finished the ulcer treatment, which did make a positive difference (he was much better when he was ridden three weeks ago).

Although we're not ruling out pain, I think OH would like to think that this is an 8 year old behaving like a very green stroppy youngster because he's not getting his own way.

I just don't know.
 
As a one off isolated incident it might just be a combo of grass freshness etc. We had a gorgeous ISH who ninety percent of the time your granny could ride and ten percent of the time would throw in massive bucks. Never really got to the bottom of what would trigger it. They got less as he got older and we got more used to dealing with them. If he hadn't been so lovely to ride the rest of the time we'd probably have been less tolerant of it!
 
Nancykitt said:
Although we're not ruling out pain, I think OH would like to think that this is an 8 year old behaving like a very green stroppy youngster because he's not getting his own way.

I just don't know.
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To get down to brass tacks, if you make the hard decision I think it would be a shame to do it for this reason and opens up room for regrets in the future, the human brain being what it is for doubts and regrets. I don't know how close that choice is to being on the cards. Pain that isn't easily solved is another thing entirely so for both Ozzys sake and your own, I would try and not think that he is doing this out of badness.
 
smolmaus said:
To get down to brass tacks, if you make the hard decision I think it would be a shame to do it for this reason and opens up room for regrets in the future, the human brain being what it is for doubts and regrets. I don't know how close that choice is to being on the cards. Pain that isn't easily solved is another thing entirely so for both Ozzys sake and your own, I would try and not think that he is doing this out of badness.
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What would your suggestion be? Going forwards?
OH is presumably not a young man, he’s been hurt and I think he’d be silly to get back on and have another go.
I think NK needs to make her own decisions bearing in mind her income, facilities, access to vets for work ups and the horse in front of her.
 
Just a random thought - depending on how saddle fit was before you all having a holiday, could something have changed? He sounds like a sensitive chap underneath so something being even slightly off could explain the reaction.

Isolate all the possibles tick box style without getting you or your OH hurt, and hopefully it'll be become clearer.
 
Clodagh said:
What would your suggestion be? Going forwards?
OH is presumably not a young man, he’s been hurt and I think he’d be silly to get back on and have another go.
I think NK needs to make her own decisions bearing in mind her income, facilities, access to vets for work ups and the horse in front of her.
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My only suggestion is on mindset. The decision needs to be what it is. Pain is both the more likely reason and will not give any "oh but what if we had tried x" misery in the future.
 
He is communicating with you in the only way he knows how. So, I do think you need a vet check or at the very least a physio to check for any soreness and go from there. Please don't try and push him through.

Please do not get hurt over this - he is trying to tell you that something is wrong, so you don't want to push him and either of you get hurt.
 
Really sorry to read the update :( You certainly have nothing to blame yourselves for and you can only do what you can do. Without x-ray vision or a vet hospital on standby the only way to do anything is feel your way forward, and sometimes when you've unpeeled a few onion layers you find a real issue. Keep yourselves safe, that's the main thing.
 
You have done a fantastic job with Ozzy - please don't beat yourself up about this setback x Horses are great at levelling us when we are riding a high with them. How long has he been off his ulcer treatment? Is it a possibility that the ulcer treatment cleared up most but not all and he has a few left which would explain the explosive behaviour - that is what is standing out to me having read what you've written a few times x Regarding his tack - is it possible that his saddle needs an adjustment or his teeth need checking - again would explain the explosive behaviour x

Either way I really hope you get to the bottom of this episode - and know that whatever happens - you have given Ozzy every chance possible x
 
OK, we've had a good chat and I've calmed down a bit (thanks to OH who is just super-pragmatic).

One thing I was honest about was that I liked having three horses because OH's cob will be 27 next year and has a heart murmur...I just couldn't bear the thought of going out one day to find a very distressed AJ in the field, if you know what I mean. Once we got Ozzy, I didn't have to worry about this. I know it's not the best reason to get a horse and obviously we wanted Ozzy to be a horse we could hack out, but just having some sort of assurance that AJ wouldn't be on his own if Snoopy died suddenly (which, according to the vet, is quite likely) was good.

Added to this, Ozzy had a very traumatic time this summer and I don't think it would be fair to move him on again. So we've agreed that passing him on to someone else is definitely not an option.

However, OH does want to get on Ozzy again once we have changed his saddle set-up. He just wants to explore every possibility before writing Ozzy off.
OH thinks there is still a small chance that this could be an over-reaction from a cob who may be feeling a bit too well now he has had his various health issues addressed.
I have to say that Ozzy's behaviour in general is much better than it has been. He is very happy to come out of the field, be groomed, etc etc.
Just to emphasise - we are not ruling out pain (and it could be down to the saddle). But we are also not ruling out other causes.
When I said I'd never seen anything like Ozzy's display, OH reminded me that I have, infact, seen something almost identical when we were waiting to go out hunting once. The horse in question went from semi-asleep to decking its rider, who promptly got back on and said 'he does this when he gets a bit keen'. The horse was perfect for the rest of the day (a very mannerly hunter and a great jumper) and I remember saying that there's no way I could ever put up with that sort of behaviour.
I'm not saying that this is the case with Ozzy. At this stage we just don't know. Sudden (albeit brief) pain seems like the most likely explanation for the behaviour. But other things can't be ruled out.

As OH said, if he was an experienced horse that we knew well, it would be a little different. But he is so incredibly green. And even though we've had him for almost four months, it's not like having a horse for years and really getting to know them.


We can contact the vet but as a non-urgent case it will probably be a month or so. In the meantime, we'll keep a close eye on him.

So he's not being PTS and he's not being passed on. We have agreed on this.

The worst case scenario is that, for now, he would be a field companion. Not ideal as we wanted a cob for hacking, but we have to do the best for him as well as us. At the moment he shows no signs of being in any pain and he doesn't have a diagnosis. If that changed, we would think again.
 
This comes down to what you and OH can cope with. I've had mine be stroppy about wanting to eat grass, but he doesn't take it that far. However, some horses genuinely don't know that some behavior under saddle (or when otherwise being handled by humans) is not ok, I think. It depends on how they're wired and produced, to some extent. Some would never try, while others are more impulsive.

He also might be the type that you might want to ground work a bit after time off and go through a "checklist" or check points of sorts before resuming normal riding activities. I generally do this with any horse to remind them that they're not feral. Some don't really need it, but it doesn't hurt, IMO.

That being said, I understand if no one wants to get on this horse again. For me, I'd be checking saddle fit, feet (for any soreness), and his overall body for soreness, because my brain just needs to tick those boxes. Yours might not. It's an individual thing and don't feel bad for doing what's right for you and your OH.
 
A couple of thoughts.

He might have something underlying going on physically. I had a young mare I retired last year - she was doing some dangerous manouvers. We had been giving her regular breaks and each time she started again the behaviour would escalate. Showed quite a significant kissing spine on X-ray. Our working (unproven) theory was that as she worked through it and strengthened shoe could just about cope, but as soon as she has a break and lost a bit of fitness then it kicked in. She also had ulcers which tend to go hand in hand.

Anxious souls seem to respond well to valarian. But I’d probably just whizz him into the horsepital for a once over first.
 
Nancykitt said:
OK, we've had a good chat and I've calmed down a bit (thanks to OH who is just super-pragmatic).

One thing I was honest about was that I liked having three horses because OH's cob will be 27 next year and has a heart murmur...I just couldn't bear the thought of going out one day to find a very distressed AJ in the field, if you know what I mean. Once we got Ozzy, I didn't have to worry about this. I know it's not the best reason to get a horse and obviously we wanted Ozzy to be a horse we could hack out, but just having some sort of assurance that AJ wouldn't be on his own if Snoopy died suddenly (which, according to the vet, is quite likely) was good.

Added to this, Ozzy had a very traumatic time this summer and I don't think it would be fair to move him on again. So we've agreed that passing him on to someone else is definitely not an option.

However, OH does want to get on Ozzy again once we have changed his saddle set-up. He just wants to explore every possibility before writing Ozzy off.
OH thinks there is still a small chance that this could be an over-reaction from a cob who may be feeling a bit too well now he has had his various health issues addressed.
I have to say that Ozzy's behaviour in general is much better than it has been. He is very happy to come out of the field, be groomed, etc etc.
Just to emphasise - we are not ruling out pain (and it could be down to the saddle). But we are also not ruling out other causes.
When I said I'd never seen anything like Ozzy's display, OH reminded me that I have, infact, seen something almost identical when we were waiting to go out hunting once. The horse in question went from semi-asleep to decking its rider, who promptly got back on and said 'he does this when he gets a bit keen'. The horse was perfect for the rest of the day (a very mannerly hunter and a great jumper) and I remember saying that there's no way I could ever put up with that sort of behaviour.
I'm not saying that this is the case with Ozzy. At this stage we just don't know. Sudden (albeit brief) pain seems like the most likely explanation for the behaviour. But other things can't be ruled out.

As OH said, if he was an experienced horse that we knew well, it would be a little different. But he is so incredibly green. And even though we've had him for almost four months, it's not like having a horse for years and really getting to know them.


We can contact the vet but as a non-urgent case it will probably be a month or so. In the meantime, we'll keep a close eye on him.

So he's not being PTS and he's not being passed on. We have agreed on this.

The worst case scenario is that, for now, he would be a field companion. Not ideal as we wanted a cob for hacking, but we have to do the best for him as well as us. At the moment he shows no signs of being in any pain and he doesn't have a diagnosis. If that changed, we would think again.
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This post entertained me a bit. I've had similar interactions with my OH. There will be me grumbling and feeling rather pessimistic about something with my young horse, and he'll just matter of factly say, "Your last young horse went though the same thing, and he came out fine." it's like I blocked out the trauma 😅

Or I'll complicate something, and OH will go, "He's 4 years old." Right. 🤣 So while I don't want to dismiss or over simplify, it's nice having a more pragmatic counter balance at times!
 
Prior to his three-week break, he'd been doing great. He'd stopped napping and seemed very relaxed when ridden.

When he was ridden on Wednesday he was fine at first but then did a bit of napping and seemed a little less relaxed than usual.

Today's incident was the first of its kind.
CanteringCarrot said:
This post entertained me a bit. I've had similar interactions with my OH. There will be me grumbling and feeling rather pessimistic about something with my young horse, and he'll just matter of factly say, "Your last young horse went though the same thing, and he came out fine." it's like I blocked out the trauma 😅

Or I'll complicate something, and OH will go, "He's 4 years old." Right. 🤣 So while I don't want to dismiss or over simplify, it's nice having a more pragmatic counter balance at times!
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Yep, this is exactly how it is! Me getting very upset and OH saying 'He was backed at 6, ridden for a matter of months and then taken out of work completely. For ages. And then he was moved around from pillar to post.'

I know that people say it's better that they are backed later rather than too early, but it did get me thinking. Suppose Ozzy was allowed to get away with things for six whole years.
When he came to us he was rude, bargy, aggressive to the other two and would simply run off if he didn't want to do something. He was extremely argumentative!
In this respect, he's a very different horse now. For one thing, his ears have moved from the 'permanently flat back' position to much more normal. He's much better mannered in general (with us) and has completely stopped being aggressive with Snoopy and AJ.

Perhaps the expectation that his previous poor behaviour would just disappear is much too high.

We're going to have a look at the saddle situation and take it from there.
 
Nancykitt said:
Prior to his three-week break, he'd been doing great. He'd stopped napping and seemed very relaxed when ridden.

When he was ridden on Wednesday he was fine at first but then did a bit of napping and seemed a little less relaxed than usual.

Today's incident was the first of its kind.

Yep, this is exactly how it is! Me getting very upset and OH saying 'He was backed at 6, ridden for a matter of months and then taken out of work completely. For ages. And then he was moved around from pillar to post.'

I know that people say it's better that they are backed later rather than too early, but it did get me thinking. Suppose Ozzy was allowed to get away with things for six whole years.
When he came to us he was rude, bargy, aggressive to the other two and would simply run off if he didn't want to do something. He was extremely argumentative!
In this respect, he's a very different horse now. For one thing, his ears have moved from the 'permanently flat back' position to much more normal. He's much better mannered in general (with us) and has completely stopped being aggressive with Snoopy and AJ.

Perhaps the expectation that his previous poor behaviour would just disappear is much too high.

We're going to have a look at the saddle situation and take it from there.
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I know that many support backing a horse later, and I don't outright object to that, but I've also seen better results from backing earlier rather than later. Granted, it depends on the horse and who is doing the backing too.

Some of the most difficult types I've owned or worked with were backed late, and I can't think that's not a coincidence. Backed by different people, different breeds, and from different yards.

Backing later can be fine, and I don't think it's wrong, but I think it's slightly detrimental to some horses. If they had been engaged and established a working relationship earlier, they might've turned out differently, but who knows.

I don't want to start a debate, since I know this can be a hot topic on here!

The saddle is always a good place to start. Either way, you've done a lot for this horse, and I really respect that.
 
CanteringCarrot said:
I know that many support backing a horse later, and I don't outright object to that, but I've also seen better results from backing earlier rather than later. Granted, it depends on the horse and who is doing the backing too.

Some of the most difficult types I've owned or worked with were backed late, and I can't think that's not a coincidence. Backed by different people, different breeds, and from different yards.

Backing later can be fine, and I don't think it's wrong, but I think it's slightly detrimental to some horses. If they had been engaged and established a working relationship earlier, they might've turned out differently, but who knows.
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I've found that unless you are 100% sure of the background, "backed later" can sometimes really be ones with a failed earlier backing.🙁
 
Gloi said:
I've found that unless you are 100% sure of the background, "backed later" can sometimes really be ones with a failed earlier backing.🙁
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Interesting.
What we know is that Ozzy was in the same home from birth to 6 years old.
We don't know if anyone attempted to back him during that period.
Then he went to West Wales. His new owner said that he was backed by her; some of you may remember the videos of Ozzy being very good when out hacking.
He was then turned away for a significant period of time. Not sure how long, but at least all over last winter and through the spring. He was sent to the sales in late May.
So it's not a 'typical' start to a ridden career. It might be that he had a failed backing, but there's some evidence that he did OK once he's moved to Wales.
However, whichever way you look at it, there wasn't a lot of time for him to further his education before he was turned away.
He does look like an incredibly green horse - and he certainly has attitude, so even if he was taught good manners in the past, he seems to have forgotten them!

Having said that he's made great progress in a lot of areas.
We'll see what we can do.
 
So he was not ridden for a while and has been out at grass?

First you know he can nap, the grass at the mo is very firey I am finding.

Can he lunge, personally I would have lunged him for few days before getting back on, as he is a known opinionated young fella, with an unknown early training history

could you lunge him and put up some trotting poles raised, say 3, before you ride and on days you don't ride as an discipline come lesson come lowering of the possibly excess energy . You only need a few minutes

He's a lovely young chap but he needs a lot of consistant small bouts of work where he actually works and gets polos for a good move

Also I'd get him by throat well headcollar and take him for a walk every evening on his own, in hand, he needs to do things without a crutch when he's asked. It won't kill him but try to go in circle, not turn back for home, do it with two people

I do hope is not pain, but every young horse I have had has gone out on their own
Not with other horses

Hope you don't mind me saying all this but it's early days and hate to hear you and other half are so down
 
tristars said:
Hope you don't mind me saying all this but it's early days and hate to hear you and other half are so down
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I'm very grateful for all advice, thank you!

TBH, I get a lot more down that the OH. Thankfully he is sensible and pragmatic - and he's not ready to give up with Ozzy yet!
 
Nancykitt said:
17th October

A very major setback.


We decided to take Ozzy out with his best friend AJ today. All was fine, Ozzy was happy to come in and be groomed, no problem at all tacking up. I got on AJ.
Ozzy stood perfectly to be mounted, OH got on, no problem. Everything seemed fine.
Then Ozzy said 'I want to go this way and eat grass'.
OH said, 'no, we're going out so we need to go this way' and started to turn him.

Ozzy then put in a MASSIVE bucking/broncing fit. I've never seen anything like it. A real 'Get off my back NOW' display. On the tarmac.
OH has a very good seat and somehow managed to stay on. But he is hurt and in some pain.
Ozzy calmed down almost immediately and started to move off, but under the circumstances, OH got off him straight away.
All tack fine, we haven't changed anything.

I'm so upset. At this moment in time I honestly can't see a way back.
Ozzy gets super-distressed if left in the field on his own so it's not as if we can just hack out on AJ and Snoopy.

I honestly don't know what to do. There is no way I'd ever get on Ozzy and I don't think OH is keen (he's gone very quiet).

Feeling like a total failure. It was all going well. And then it wasn't.
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Oh dear, main thing is you and OH and other pony are OK.
It’s unfortunate - but entirely understandable and definitely the sensible option - that your husband wasn’t able to keep on board once Ozzy had settled, because that’s kind of reinforced that he gets to do what he prefers by throwing a tantrum.
It might be ‘pain’, but however could you two get full body work ups, scans, scopes, the rest with a vet practice so far away and even more tantrums if you try to travel? Furthermore, the saddle: you’re experienced enough to assess that there isn’t a tack sticking out, and if minimal body alteration from his holiday is producing maximum physical reaction just from his saddle - no way, particularly since he then calmed down and started to move off with your OH on board, having made his viewpoint very clear.
It is far more likely to be a green and opinionated cob, feeling a million dollars on good food and rest, who’d rather play in the field with his pal than whatever you had in mind. And already knows that you are not going to insist if he states his case loudly enough.
Ozzy is a bit of a teenage Kevin, you’ve described his strong physical reactions to stuff he does not want to do, whether it’s being led when he’d rather leg it, being clipped, loading up, moving off from a mounting block, going for a ride when there’s grass to be eaten: “shan’t, won’t, just try and make me”.
He’s even threatened and bitten, and you’ve got past confrontational displays without reacting or taking it on, which is good, but doesn’t mean that he will never try those same behaviours again, and in the case of rodeoing on tarmac - the very best riders could easily be thrown and damaged, or horse slip over.
If OH is feeling dubious about a repeat, that can transmit to the horse. Ozzy might not do that again, but I could understand why you and your husband don’t fancy the risk - how far is your A&E, anyway?
It’s not failure, certainly a learning curve, but Ozzy’ll never be a good field companion because can’t be safely left. If you ride and lead the other two, he’s likely to change his mind and happily be ridden alongside. It’s all on his terms, insistence on some serious and lengthy work on a regular basis would probably transform him, but not really what you both want to do. Keep safe meanwhile, and please don’t start spending on the myriad ‘equine experts’ that predate on loss of confidence.
 
Nancykitt said:
I'm very grateful for all advice, thank you!

TBH, I get a lot more down that the OH. Thankfully he is sensible and pragmatic - and he's not ready to give up with Ozzy yet!
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Start doing something with him every day, Sharpen up his responses 20 minutes

It's about forming habits, make it interesting
 
I've just had one of mine treated for pyloric ulcers. They're more difficult to treat than squamous and you need a different protocol. The vet took a video showing the raw edges rubbing together when the sphincter closed which explained his napping, planting and explosive bucking. If you haven't been able to get him scoped then he may not be clear of ulcers if he's only had oral omeprazole.

You are really doing great with him especially considering the difficulties getting timely vet investigations / treatment and experienced professionals to help. Sometimes it's helpful to go back to some of your earlier posts to see how far you've come. Especially when you consider how distressed and underweight he was when he arrived on the transport.

I had one arrive who couldn't even be left for a couple of seconds on his own if the other horse was out of sight but it is something that is trainable with time and effort. Since I only had 2 it was an essential for me.
 
Exasperated said:
It’s unfortunate - but entirely understandable and definitely the sensible option - that your husband wasn’t able to keep on board once Ozzy had settled, because that’s kind of reinforced that he gets to do what he prefers by throwing a tantrum.
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Hmmm...OH has just told me that even though he was in shock, the main reason he got off was because I was screaming at him to get off! 'I would probably have carried on going, he'd started to move in the right direction...';)
Exasperated said:
It is far more likely to be a green and opinionated cob, feeling a million dollars on good food and rest, who’d rather play in the field with his pal than whatever you had in mind. And already knows that you are not going to insist if he states his case loudly enough.
Ozzy is a bit of a teenage Kevin, you’ve described his strong physical reactions to stuff he does not want to do, whether it’s being led when he’d rather leg it, being clipped, loading up, moving off from a mounting block, going for a ride when there’s grass to be eaten: “shan’t, won’t, just try and make me”.
He’s even threatened and bitten, and you’ve got past confrontational displays without reacting or taking it on, which is good, but doesn’t mean that he will never try those same behaviours again, and in the case of rodeoing on tarmac - the very best riders could easily be thrown and damaged, or horse slip over.
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This is pretty much what OH has been saying. Yes, it was absolutely horrible and caused OH a bit of pain - but as he said, we're looking at a 10-second episode that *could* have simply been a nasty big tantrum.
Doesn't make it acceptable (and I have clearly catastrophised the whole thing), but it's not as if Ozzy has been a nice, quiet, beautifully mannered horse for the last four months. As you say, he's been quite the opposite at times! His worst behaviour has always been when we're trying to get him to do something he doesn't want to do. Since June we've had him running off, pinning us to the gate, biting (us and the other two horses), cow kicking when we tried to clip his legs the first time, napping...and then there was the total epic of the vet's visit, when he did an excellent job of fighting a sizeable dose of sedative. Most of this behaviour is now in the past but I can't help wondering if something re-surfaced today.

OH is actually feeling fine about getting back on (once his back feels a bit better). As he said, 'I will be ready this time'. During the broncing, he was sitting up and didn't actually look as if he was going to come off (I would have been airborne), but he twisted his back as Ozzy turned. I reminded him of the time he entered the Working Horse class at the local RC show and let's just say that it was one of those days when Snoopy was feeling extra-happy. One of the show organisers came to the wagon to find me, just to say 'Oh my God, you should have seen that horse...I have NO IDEA how your husband stayed on!'

One good thing is that, although I have a few days of work here and there, I'm not going away again until the first week of December. And then we'll both be home, probably until April. Obviously, we'll be restricted by the weather, but we'll do what we can. Full retirement (for me) is due January 2027 but we should be able to devote a good deal of time to the horses over the coming months.
 
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