The Ozzy Diaries

Could it be that he struggles with changes of routine, given all the changes he's been through previously? So although you weren't doing anything brand new with him it (maybe along with change in season) was enough to send him back to his default of 'nope' and he ended up doing that in a particularly big way. Rather than just 'oh okay we're doing this again'.
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
Could it be that he struggles with changes of routine, given all the changes he's been through previously? So although you weren't doing anything brand new with him it (maybe along with change in season) was enough to send him back to his default of 'nope' and he ended up doing that in a particularly big way. Rather than just 'oh okay we're doing this again'.
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Could well be!
I'm going to try and get him into more of a routine with work, whether that's groundwork (OH tends to do that), leading him out or actually riding him. But we're going to look closely at the saddle setup before he's ridden again.
The three weeks off was a bit unfortunate, but with work and stormy weather it couldn't really be helped.
I suppose the best case scenario is that today he reverted to factory settings! If so, we may be able to sort this.
If it's something more serious/physical, then obviously that won't be so easy.
 
No horse is worth risking your safety for. You also dont owe it to him to provide him a retirement, especially if he will cause disruption to your set up, and cant be left alone. They are also very expensive, so not always suitable to be retired pets especially an 8 year old like Ozzy

It feels a bit reminiscent of IM journey with Pilgrim, makes you wonder if theres a reason these horses are at the dealers, especially dodgy ones

Its also hopefully reassured Jasmine following all the awful accusations that were thrown at her on her thread about him. If your OH is a good rider and only due to that managed to sit it, she admitted herself she isn't as experienced, so probably would have been sent into orbit (like many of us would have been!)

It sounds like Ozzy has a lovely life only really being ridden for hacking, if he cant cope with that it makes you wonder what is underlying

It depends if you're willing to risk giving him another chance, and put money into trying to fix it. Maybe if you do try getting on him again, treat him like you're backing him, so lean over for a few times first, so its safer to bail?
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
No horse is worth risking your safety for. You also dont owe it to him to provide him a retirement, especially if he will cause disruption to your set up, and cant be left alone. They are also very expensive, so not always suitable to be retired pets especially an 8 year old like Ozzy
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Agreed - and if, for whatever reason, he can't be ridden, we will work with him so that he becomes more accepting of being on his own. However, we only intend to ride Snoopy for as long as he's happy to go out; at his age, he may well change his mind and then we'd have to re-evaluate everything as AJ is not great to hack alone.
In the meantime, it does give me some reassurance that there is another horse in the field should Snoopy's heart fail.

Ozzy shouldn't be passed on to anyone else. It wouldn't be fair to anyone, including him.
If he turns out to have a serious physical issue and is in pain, we will do the right thing.
But at the moment we just don't know what caused him to do what he did. We're going to do our best to find out.
 
Nancykitt said:
Could well be!
I'm going to try and get him into more of a routine with work, whether that's groundwork (OH tends to do that), leading him out or actually riding him. But we're going to look closely at the saddle setup before he's ridden again.
The three weeks off was a bit unfortunate, but with work and stormy weather it couldn't really be helped.
I suppose the best case scenario is that today he reverted to factory settings! If so, we may be able to sort this.
If it's something more serious/physical, then obviously that won't be so easy.
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If you are going to start changing saddles (!), consider Australian stock with poley knee (thigh) rolls, very popular for breakers and polocrosse players - far greater security for the 180 lightning speed spook and those that ‘get big with the bum’.
Really don’t think you should be throwing money at Ozzy, he’s a bit of a brat and wants putting to work on a more consistent and insistent basis. And if you’re not happy to do it, do not be pushed by other people’s attitudes, your safety and peace of mind come first.
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
No horse is worth risking your safety for. You also dont owe it to him to provide him a retirement, especially if he will cause disruption to your set up, and cant be left alone. They are also very expensive, so not always suitable to be retired pets especially an 8 year old like Ozzy

It feels a bit reminiscent of IM journey with Pilgrim, makes you wonder if theres a reason these horses are at the dealers, especially dodgy ones

Its also hopefully reassured Jasmine following all the awful accusations that were thrown at her on her thread about him. If your OH is a good rider and only due to that managed to sit it, she admitted herself she isn't as experienced, so probably would have been sent into orbit (like many of us would have been!)

It sounds like Ozzy has a lovely life only really being ridden for hacking, if he cant cope with that it makes you wonder what is underlying

It depends if you're willing to risk giving him another chance, and put money into trying to fix it. Maybe if you do try getting on him again, treat him like you're backing him, so lean over for a few times first, so its safer to bail?
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Oh I definitely would have gone into orbit as you say. And yes I feel validated about all the things I said about Ozzy on my thread but I also feel guilt for what is now happening and if anything had of happened to @Nancykitt's hubby I would never have forgiven myself. I also feel bad for Ozzy.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
Oh I definitely would have gone into orbit as you say. And yes I feel validated about all the things I said about Ozzy on my thread but I also feel guilt for what is now happening and if anything had of happened to @Nancykitt's hubby I would never have forgiven myself. I also feel bad for Ozzy.
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Jasmine, you must not feel bad about this, absolutely none of this is your fault! You were 100% honest and we knew full well that we were taking on a horse with issues! Please don’t feel bad, you did the right thing every step of the way.
 
Nancykitt said:
Jasmine, you must not feel bad about this, absolutely none of this is your fault! You were 100% honest and we knew full well that we were taking on a horse with issues! Please don’t feel bad, you did the right thing every step of the way.
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It's my nature and I like to think I am a decent person so it bothers me that won't change. I don't think either of us really knew the extent of his issues.
 
*hugs* to you. Horses do like to throw us curveballs.

Whilst it is impossible to totally rule out pain even if you can’t obviously find anything it does also sound entirely plausible that he’s regressed a bit ridden confidence wise with his time off & isn’t the best at dealing with frustration / being told “NO” in a healthy way and what you got was a bit of a combination of a few different factors.


Definitely sensible to speak to vet, maybe physio if you use one and double check saddle fit to rule out what you can but sometimes horses do react in inexplicable ways to fairly benign situations. Some of these are total one offs that never happen again and some do turn into patterns that need investigation into why and sometimes professional help to break the cycle
 
At the least please can your OH invest in an air jacket if he’s ever going to sit on Ozzy again.

It could be this, it could be that, but the bottom line is that the rider risks very serious and life changing injuries by braving out what may or may not be simply a temper tantrum.

We were all young, brave and foolish once, but as we get older there should be some sort of sense check.

That sort of broncing can lead to horrible falls in which the rider is flung high in the air and then lands badly.

Unless a very definite pain cause is found and can be treated IMHO it’s just not worth trying riding him again.
 
Just write it off as a shite day …I know it’s really soul destroying , I’ve been there. I’m not making excuses for him but …. Autumn flush , not done much for weeks, pushing the boundaries etc etc. Cobs seem to be painted as confidence giving /bombproof but my experience is they are extremely sensitive. The yard describe my cob as a TB trapped in a cobs body. It took me a good 2 years to figure him out, and we have a great time now. He does need gently gently approach , no flooding, regular work (minimum 4 times a week), no mollsses/alfafa/garlic/soya, soaked hay and limited grazing ….. high maintenance 🙈. If I have a quiet couple of weeks he can become a bit feral like very quickly. Oh and a TCS saddle …and 3 monthly physio …. God no wonder I’m skint.

Invest in a good body protector and try to keep his mind busy , even just groundwork/stretching/voice command training etc.
 
The other day we were watching AJ and Ozzy playing in the field - prancing round, bucking & broncing, even doing a bit of ‘boxing’.
But AJ knows that none of this is acceptable under saddle. He has never thrown a tantrum, even as a 4 year old. He was superbly handled as a foal and carefully backed by people who knew what they were doing.

Ozzy, on the other hand, has a problem working out boundaries. I don’t see how he could have the same sort of upbringing/early training.

If AJ - or Finn, my perfect Connie - had done what Ozzy did, we would be 99.9% that there was a significant pain issue because such behaviour would have been so totally out of character. With Ozzy, it’s very much in line with the bargy, argumentative, disrespectful behaviour he’s shown in previous months - which is why we’re not convinced it’s pain. It could be, but it could also be Ozzy behaving like he does when playing with AJ in the field.
One thing is certain- Ozzy is much, much greener than I first thought. I watched a Michael Peace video once - he had a problematic 8 year old and said it was more like a 3 year old in terms of maturity.

We got Ozzy out yesterday evening and touched him all over,
applying a bit of pressure, to see how he was. Obviously I know it would take more than this to make a diagnosis- but he was quite calm and cheerful.
Today is OH’s birthday. I wish I could magically give him a well-mannered Ozzy! But some things take more time and effort than magic. And yes, there’s the possibility that it can never happen- but it’s too early to give up completely.
 
Nancykitt said:
The other day we were watching AJ and Ozzy playing in the field - prancing round, bucking & broncing, even doing a bit of ‘boxing’.
But AJ knows that none of this is acceptable under saddle. He has never thrown a tantrum, even as a 4 year old. He was superbly handled as a foal and carefully backed by people who knew what they were doing.

Ozzy, on the other hand, has a problem working out boundaries. I don’t see how he could have the same sort of upbringing/early training.

If AJ - or Finn, my perfect Connie - had done what Ozzy did, we would be 99.9% that there was a significant pain issue because such behaviour would have been so totally out of character. With Ozzy, it’s very much in line with the bargy, argumentative, disrespectful behaviour he’s shown in previous months - which is why we’re not convinced it’s pain. It could be, but it could also be Ozzy behaving like he does when playing with AJ in the field.
One thing is certain- Ozzy is much, much greener than I first thought. I watched a Michael Peace video once - he had a problematic 8 year old and said it was more like a 3 year old in terms of maturity.

We got Ozzy out yesterday evening and touched him all over,
applying a bit of pressure, to see how he was. Obviously I know it would take more than this to make a diagnosis- but he was quite calm and cheerful.
Today is OH’s birthday. I wish I could magically give him a well-mannered Ozzy! But some things take more time and effort than magic. And yes, there’s the possibility that it can never happen- but it’s too early to give up completely.
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Yeah he’s possibly feeling a bit too well and is an overaged baby. You use a TCS on Ozzie don’t you ?
 
This is only my opinion so do not shoot me. He is young and green. Not had much work lately. Fairly new and been passed around a lot. As a minimum get his back and saddle checked. Make sure he has no heating feed. No alfalfa at all. Can make some horses nuts..... if all that checks out lunge before riding if thats possible. Back protector etc for anyone who gets on him in future. I feel its very early to think about not riding him again or pts.... Another option go right back to basics and re back him as if he were 4. It could be pain which really should be ruled out before you go any further, it could be that hes just feeling very well, it could be his saddle... So may options.
 
motherof2beasts! said:
Yeah he’s possibly feeling a bit too well and is an overaged baby. You use a TCS on Ozzie don’t you ?
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Yes, we moved AJ & Snoopy to TCS last year and I couldn’t be more delighted. They go so much better in them. Ozzy has a TCS and overall he’s been fine; yesterday was the first time he’s had this sort of reaction. We could change the padding setup.
We also have a treed saddle that could fit well, but OH says that he feels much more secure in the TCS (same for me), so initially we’ll be looking at modifying the TCS setup.

There are no local saddle fitters and we would probably have to wait a long time for one to visit, but if we conclude that a treed saddle is better for him then so be it.
 
Sandstone1 said:
This is only my opinion so do not shoot me. He is young and green. Not had much work lately. Fairly new and been passed around a lot. As a minimum get his back and saddle checked. Make sure he has no heating feed. No alfalfa at all. Can make some horses nuts..... if all that checks out lunge before riding if thats possible. Back protector etc for anyone who gets on him in future. I feel its very early to think about not riding him again or pts.... Another option go right back to basics and re back him as if he were 4. It could be pain which really should be ruled out before you go any further, it could be that hes just feeling very well, it could be his saddle... So may options.
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He has soaked grass pellets and unmolassed chaff. No alfalfa or any heating food. He also has marigold & cleavers (for his CPL). Has free access to forage and grazing (although there’s not much grass atm).

Ozzy absolutely loves his feed, it’s the highlight of his day. I have always made him take 3 steps back when asked, then I use the clicker and give him the feed. It didn’t take him long to learn this, but one day last month he decided he’d try it on. Refused to back up and came right into my space, demanding his bucket.
I stepped away and got my stick, pointed it at his chest, asked again for him to back up. He complied. This is very typical of Ozzy. I think he could have been a heck of a spoilt foal.
 
Nancykitt said:
He has soaked grass pellets and unmolassed chaff. No alfalfa or any heating food. He also has marigold & cleavers (for his CPL). Has free access to forage and grazing (although there’s not much grass atm).

Ozzy absolutely loves his feed, it’s the highlight of his day. I have always made him take 3 steps back when asked, then I use the clicker and give him the feed. It didn’t take him long to learn this, but one day last month he decided he’d try it on. Refused to back up and came right into my space, demanding his bucket.
I stepped away and got my stick, pointed it at his chest, asked again for him to back up. He complied. This is very typical of Ozzy. I think he could have been a heck of a spoilt foal.
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Good, I would double check the chaff is alfalfa free as I know I have to be careful as its in a lot of feeds you do not expect. Good Luck with him.
 
Sandstone1 said:
Good, I would double check the chaff is alfalfa free as I know I have to be careful as its in a lot of feeds you do not expect. Good Luck with him.
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It’s Honeychop Lite n’ Healthy so no alfalfa, soya or molasses. Out EP is very strict about no alfalfa or molasses! All the horses seem to love the lite n' healthy though.
 
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sollimum said:
He is communicating with you in the only way he knows how. So, I do think you need a vet check or at the very least a physio to check for any soreness and go from there. Please don't try and push him through.

Please do not get hurt over this - he is trying to tell you that something is wrong, so you don't want to push him and either of you get hurt.
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Just read this, yes, he was definitely communicating something, as in “ get off, I’ve got other interests and plans” - fair enough, but Ozzy is a horse, he does not get to decide policy ( altho he has had some success to date).
Horses do not make these choices, any more than a responsible parent lets their child choose to eat nothing but cocoa pops and use social media until 3.00am. If horse handlers do not provide clear direction as to what horses must do and when they will be doing it, there will be confusion and upset, possibly hurt, and quite possibly bad injuries too.
Ozzy is not ‘bad’, he prefers to have his own way, entirely understandable, and when what he wants coincides with what humans want, he has been angelic.
If Nancy and husband are dubious about insisting and persisting with Ozzy, that is also understandable, they are not used to this sort of attitude in the horses they have had, and should not be railroaded into spending a lot of money ‘checking’ this, that, the other, buying fresh equipment, hiring pro riders, resigning themselves to a retired thug ornament - they moved there to enjoy retirement with their horses in a lovely place, and there are plenty of other reliable, ‘made’ riding cobs about which would allow them to do that if this one is unsuitable.
 
Exasperated said:
Ozzy is not ‘bad’, he prefers to have his own way, entirely understandable, and when what he wants coincides with what humans want, he has been angelic.
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YES! This. We're all delighted when Ozzy does the right thing. But sometimes he doesn't - and unfortunately, he thinks it's his prerogative to choose. We have been working to help him understand that life will be more pleasant for all of us if he makes the right choices 100% of the time.

Exasperated said:
If Nancy and husband are dubious about insisting and persisting with Ozzy, that is also understandable, they are not used to this sort of attitude in the horses they have had, and should not be railroaded into spending a lot of money ‘checking’ this, that, the other, buying fresh equipment, hiring pro riders, resigning themselves to a retired thug ornament - they moved there to enjoy retirement with their horses in a lovely place, and there are plenty of other reliable, ‘made’ riding cobs about which would allow them to do that if this one is unsuitable.
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Very true. Yesterday I felt extremely dubious about persevering because my very first thought, if a horse bucks like this, is that there is some sort of serious pain issue. So I then think the worst.
However, I've given a lot of thought to the idea of behaviour that is actually pretty much in line with what we know about a horse's character.
As I've said, if AJ had done that, I'd be on the phone to the vet within an hour. It would be totally out of character.

And then I thought back to what Ozzy was like when he arrived, Kicking, biting, permanently grumpy, running off. He's got over a lot of this simply by becoming more settled in his environment and (hopefully) realising that he's not about to get parcelled off again (although he is still incredibly nervous being led near the back of vans/small lorries.)

It's also true to say that we are not really used to this sort of attitude, although 4-year old Snoopy really was a handful at times. Not bucking, but he was unpredictable and would try to unseat his rider by running off at impressive speed and spinning, especially in the arena. The problems were sorted through OH being very consistent and firm - plus miles on the clock.
Admittedly we were both younger then, but OH was very new to riding and does have a much better seat now (partly due to a relentless determination to stay aboard Snoopy on some challenging days out hunting!)
Ozzy is a different problem altogether, but he may well benefit from that consistent firmness.
 
Oh Ozzy! Just because you are named after a wild rock star, doesn't mean you have to behave like one!!

In all fairness, if he was backed at 6, then ridden away and then either had kids ride him or was turned away then you are actually dealing with a 4/5year old.
Really regular routine in regards to ridden and in hand work, including some proper but short schooling sessions and lots of patience.
I doubt that there are many people on here whose horses haven't thrown a few shapes and behaved badly for one reason or another. I don't think that's the end of his ridden career or a reason to pts.
Just go back two steps and work forwards again.
Well sat OH!
 
moosea said:
In all fairness, if he was backed at 6, then ridden away and then either had kids ride him or was turned away then you are actually dealing with a 4/5year old.
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Absolutely, he is very much like an opinionated 4 year old. And 'proper full cob', like Snoopy.
(AJ is a coblet, being part Apaloosa).

If we'd bought a green 4 year old and he'd bucked, I don't think anyone would have been surprised. Especially after a 3-week holiday where he's been able to do as he likes.
Again, I'm not saying that there's not a physical issue somewhere, but expecting Ozzy to behave like the average 8 year old is unrealistic.

moosea said:
Well sat OH!
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I don't know how he stays on, but he says that he sits up and never looks down. He also says that it's easier to stay on with the TCS.
 
Nancykitt said:
YES! This. We're all delighted when Ozzy does the right thing. But sometimes he doesn't - and unfortunately, he thinks it's his prerogative to choose. We have been working to help him understand that life will be more pleasant for all of us if he makes the right choices 100% of the time.



Very true. Yesterday I felt extremely dubious about persevering because my very first thought, if a horse bucks like this, is that there is some sort of serious pain issue. So I then think the worst.
However, I've given a lot of thought to the idea of behaviour that is actually pretty much in line with what we know about a horse's character.
As I've said, if AJ had done that, I'd be on the phone to the vet within an hour. It would be totally out of character.

And then I thought back to what Ozzy was like when he arrived, Kicking, biting, permanently grumpy, running off. He's got over a lot of this simply by becoming more settled in his environment and (hopefully) realising that he's not about to get parcelled off again (although he is still incredibly nervous being led near the back of vans/small lorries.)

It's also true to say that we are not really used to this sort of attitude, although 4-year old Snoopy really was a handful at times. Not bucking, but he was unpredictable and would try to unseat his rider by running off at impressive speed and spinning, especially in the arena. The problems were sorted through OH being very consistent and firm - plus miles on the clock.
Admittedly we were both younger then, but OH was very new to riding and does have a much better seat now (partly due to a relentless determination to stay aboard Snoopy on some challenging days out hunting!)
Ozzy is a different problem altogether, but he may well benefit from that consistent firmness.
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Yes, you just take care, his attitude would certainly benefit from very consistent work, with a rider who insists this will be happening, and ironically, Ozzy is very likely to both enjoy the activity and appreciate the firmness - he does need to know precisely where he stands after all his uncertainties.
If you’re not happy to do it, don’t.
 
18 October

Another step backwards?

We did think about leaving Ozzy for a little while but OH said that it would be good to do some groundwork and leading.
So he had about 15 mins groundwork and was fine.
I said I'd ride Snoopy out and we agreed that Ozzy would be tacked up as per routine, but not ridden. OH would lead him and I'd go behind with Snoops.

When we took Ozzy out at the beginning of the week, he did something he'd never done before. As OH approached him with the bridle, he suddenly swung his back end around and kicked out with one of his hind legs. He has very recently had his teeth done and the bridle fits him fine, so we just took it to mean that he didn't want to work.

Today he did the same thing with the saddle and the bridle. Saw it approaching, in a flash swung around and kicked out. OH takes no chances and was in a safe position, but it seemed a pretty extreme reaction. He was OK having his saddle put on but was just a little tender on the left side, roughly where the rider's leg would go.

However, once he had the tack on he was fine. He behaved perfectly being led out on the road, very calm and relaxed. He only walked, but he was moving nicely and there was no obvious sign of pain. Got a treat and a fuss when he got back.

Sandstone1 said:
Another thought is if he has been playing the fool in the field has he tweaked or pulled himself and is a bit sore? that may make him grumpy.
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I'm beginning to think that this is a definite possibility. This and a combination of Ozzy being the strong-willed opinionated horse that he is.
He really does chuck himself about in the field so it wouldn't surprise me if he was hurt. Not bad enough to make him lame or too sore to walk, but in a bit of pain nevertheless.

We will give him a rest from the tack now, but will continue with the groundwork and leading out.
 
I have ours clipped to the tie up with headcollar, then slip reins over head and grip by throat if needed, then slip off headcollar andslide bit into mouth, you could have one person holding hc then reins around top of neck and the other putting on bridle, but guess what, the only one I do that with is...
the cob

Also said cob is very very lively, a few weeks ago He felt a bit off on left diagonal, in trot. So I left off then as I was about to call vet he went back to normal, I dare say his long suffering field companion clocked him one, in self defence!
 
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