The Ozzy Diaries

Nancykitt said:
This is what happened at feedtime this morning:
Horses moved to their 'feeding stations' on the other side of the fence. OH had a schooling whip and approached Ozzy. As soon as this happened, Ozzy took a step back. Because of this, OH gently asked for another step and Ozzy calmly co-operated. Ozzy was then given his feed and ate without fuss. I fed the other two, who can sometimes have a very slight 'handbags at 20 paces' but it was all absolutely fine.
After eating their feeds they congregated at the haybell, but are now all having a rest.

As much as I would love an arena, there is no way on earth we'd ever get permission. The situation with the council and the Crofting Commission is complicated to say the least; I may have to fight for the right to put up a field shelter, but it's impossible to have an arena on a croft, they just won't allow it. If money was no object I might look at getting a de-crofted piece of land and then apply for permission, but there's no guarantee and it would cost at least £50k which I simply don't have. (It also wouldn't be anywhere near our house and croft, which is less than ideal!)

We will have a good think over the next few days/weeks. Part of it depends on Ozzy's behaviour from now on, but he is certainly calm this morning. We have an EP visit on Saturday so we'll see how he is then.
I have to admit that I am scared of him and he probably knows this - so I'm keeping away for now.
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For what it's worth I think short term that your routine from this morning is probably the best way forward until you are feeling happier around Ozzy. It doesn't give him the opportunity to push his lucky with you again while your not feeling on top form. And OH seems to handle him firmly enough for Ozzy to know/understand that he is top dog.

I don't have an arena or proper lighting and I am limited to what I can do this time of year as I'm sat in an office in daylight hours. My boys generally get the winter off every year apart from basic handling during the winter months. This routine works for me generally speaking. Mine are out 24/7 with hay, water and shelter and rugged when needed. I know I'm at the opposite end of the country to you and we get much milder winters than you, but I do feel if they are out in miserable weather just 'being' is enough work for most horses. I seems to be the milder calmer weather that gets the devil in my lot and causes any issues.

It there anyway you can put up a penned off area that Ozzy goes into for his feed? It doesn't need to be huge but big enough for his feed to go in and then he is allowed into it. I think someone commented above suggesting that Ozzy is taken to the food rather than the food taken to Ozzy. This may give him some security from thinking that anyone will steal his dinner, which may change the attitude and subsequent behavior. I did something similar by a gate to feed a resource guarder so everyone else could eat in peace. Set up a coral type area round the inside of the gate so I could walk in with the feed pop it down and them open a gate to allow him in. This horse wasn't aggressive to people only other horses so the situation is a little different - but food for thought no the less.

Personally (and without knowing you or the horse personally), apart from maybe a designated feeding area for Ozzy if it were possible I think if you can limp along doing what you have done this morning until the better weather arrives and then hit the ground running with his groundwork and work load over the spirng, summer and autumn you could get some really good boundaries and manners in place which should 'just' need maintaining to manage winter easier when it arrives next time.

In the meantime don't be to hard on yourself and keep yourself safe.
 
Exasperated said:
This is terrible.

You moved here to enjoy retirement with your horses, tootling about a lovely landscape, not to be miserably imprisoned by them!

Probably immediate shock and disillusion talking, but this vision of one 17 yr old you can’t ride because Ozzy can’t be left; Ozzy becoming semi-feral because safety dictates your contact with him be minimal; plus a thoroughly-bored Ozzy possibly starts bullying the 17 yr old around anyway - is insane.

Firstly, Ozzy should be a perfectly useful riding animal - a while since I looked at this forum, but seem to recall he is excellent with traffic and shows nice, forward paces? - although possibly not for you two.

Plenty of good advice here on taking apex control, keeping safe, and occupying Ozzy, but it rather sounds as though neither you nor your husband are temperamentally suited to dealing with him appropriately, and are (understandably) now scared.
If you now feel you haven’t the opportunities, confidence or inclination to tackle this, then all credit for recognising that and for efforts thus far, and call time - whichever option.

As for Ozzy being ‘untransportable’, believe me, if a professional needs to load him into a wagon, he’ll be loaded up.
If you do prefer finality and destruction, a non-judgemental local hunt or knacker service likely to be your best bet.

The two remaining: horses can live single, settled lives, they often do, stallions particularly, altho it’s not ideal and a solitary horse is much better alongside other herbivores.
If you do decide to exit Ozzy (one way or another), try acquiring a couple of sheep asap, so if the 27yr old suddenly dies, the 17 yr old already has trusted companions, possibly older ewes from a local farm. (In your shoes, l’d be looking to either foster or loan a riding pony, or maybe a couple of mini shetlands with a view to driving and enjoying them later on; any such options would be both less stressful and safer than continuing with an undisciplined Ozzy!)

To be clear, he wasn’t ‘savaging’ you, he just treated you like any other horse he knew he could boss around.

He bit your shoulder, inches away from your cheek / nose / eye / ear and a permanent re arrangement of your face.
That’s a minor distinction of distance which won’t really matter to an ill-mannered horse, and you must make some serious decisions.

Good luck, and hope you’re a bit less raw today.
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Ozzy is absolutely fine with OH, as has been shown this morning - and pretty much every other time he handles Ozzy/takes him out. OH has much more patience than me and being physically bigger is also an advantage at times (I am very short!)
OH is pleased with Ozzy's progress overall but doesn't feel he's had the time to make a big enough impression with groundwork etc - and this comes back to the weather and environment up here. There really isn't a way round it. We will just have to do our best.
What he did to me - I've seen him do the exact same thing to AJ last summer. So I recognise that I was being treated like a fieldmate and not a human. Not acceptable, but we've been over this quite a few times now and I've held my hands up re. accepting some of the blame.
When I said that he would be a companion to the 17-year old, this would be for the short term only. If he can't be handled for basic care, he can't stay. And there's no reason why he can't be ridden. I'm not ruling anything out at the moment, we have to take our time and see what happens. Maybe when we've had him a whole year (if he lasts that long without further aggression) we'll be able to make a more informed decision. We may decide he's OK for someone with different circumstances/environment. We may decide he's absolutely fine for us.
PTS really would be a last resort; there are no hunts for hundreds of miles and, believe it or not, no knackerman. When people need horses euthanizing, the only option is a vet and injection. This is very much not my preference. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
 
dorsetladette said:
For what it's worth I think short term that your routine from this morning is probably the best way forward until you are feeling happier around Ozzy. It doesn't give him the opportunity to push his lucky with you again while your not feeling on top form. And OH seems to handle him firmly enough for Ozzy to know/understand that he is top dog.

I don't have an arena or proper lighting and I am limited to what I can do this time of year as I'm sat in an office in daylight hours. My boys generally get the winter off every year apart from basic handling during the winter months. This routine works for me generally speaking. Mine are out 24/7 with hay, water and shelter and rugged when needed. I know I'm at the opposite end of the country to you and we get much milder winters than you, but I do feel if they are out in miserable weather just 'being' is enough work for most horses. I seems to be the milder calmer weather that gets the devil in my lot and causes any issues.
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Yes, it was interesting to see Ozzy with OH today. Although Ozzy was definitely in a better mood, there was clear evidence of respect towards the human.

Like yours, our horses do very little during the winter compared to the rest of the year. They are out 24/7 with natural shelter and continuous access to forage. At least once a day they will take themselves down the field and have a bit of fooling around - not entirely great as they've been known to hurt each other when playing! Snoopy and AJ have been fine with this for the six and a half years we've been up here. When we were building the house, there was once a period of around 5 months where we didn't ride once; we took the two of them out and it was like they were in regular work, they were so well behaved.
Ozzy is different to Snoopy and AJ though and we'll have to work around that.

Re. feeding times - I almost wish I'd made a video recording of today's breakfast. Three horses standing right up against each other near the fence, ears forward, looking at us while we mix the feeds. When we picked up the bucket, Ozzy moves to his own feeding station, the other two move a little way in the opposite direction. Absolutely zero evidence of any negative feeling. They then each ate their meals and went to the haybell. This has been pretty standard for months now and didn't really go wrong until last night. When OH was working away from home I could happily feed all three, they followed the routine and were never any trouble whatsoever. But we're going to stick to OH dealing with Ozzy for a little while now. It's best for Ozzy and it's best for me.
 
I feel for you and you are doing really well. Sometimes it just happens. My horse is 19 now and I have had him 14 years. He bit me on my back on Boxing Day through a coat and gilet and made quite a mess. I was doing up his girth. He does have ulcers which did not respond to treatment and can get grumpy but I totally missed the signs and he got me.

At the end of the day you know your set up, you know your animals and you know what to do. Hopefully it is a one off and he took advantage of a weak moment. I too would hold a stick just to give a bit of a barrier but again you know your horses and what works. Don’t be too despondent. Have you got any horsey friends you can ring up or WhatsApp and swear at? Often helps!

Good luck!
 
Domirati said:
I feel for you and you are doing really well. Sometimes it just happens. My horse is 19 now and I have had him 14 years. He bit me on my back on Boxing Day through a coat and gilet and made quite a mess. I was doing up his girth. He does have ulcers which did not respond to treatment and can get grumpy but I totally missed the signs and he got me.

At the end of the day you know your set up, you know your animals and you know what to do. Hopefully it is a one off and he took advantage of a weak moment. I too would hold a stick just to give a bit of a barrier but again you know your horses and what works. Don’t be too despondent. Have you got any horsey friends you can ring up or WhatsApp and swear at? Often helps!

Good luck!
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I find that OH is a useful person to swear at as he allows me to swear and then calms me down!

How interesting that a horse you've had for such a long time reacted in this way. It's made me think that I need to be extra, extra vigilant about warning signs with Ozzy.
We've had Snoopy for 23 years, he will put his ears back and look grumpy at times but has never reacted towards us with aggression. Ozzy, on the other hand....

We've had Ozzy for 8 months. In some ways it feels like a long time but it's not all that long really considering the number of issues we're trying to work our way through.
The little sod is very cheerful today - as I've observed from afar!
 
Domirati said:
I feel for you and you are doing really well. Sometimes it just happens. My horse is 19 now and I have had him 14 years. He bit me on my back on Boxing Day through a coat and gilet and made quite a mess. I was doing up his girth. He does have ulcers which did not respond to treatment and can get grumpy but I totally missed the signs and he got me.

At the end of the day you know your set up, you know your animals and you know what to do. Hopefully it is a one off and he took advantage of a weak moment. I too would hold a stick just to give a bit of a barrier but again you know your horses and what works. Don’t be too despondent. Have you got any horsey friends you can ring up or WhatsApp and swear at? Often helps!

Good luck!
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Similarly, my pony has never so much as nipped or thought about nipping, but during a bodywork session a few months ago she whipped round and bit the osteopath in the ribcage like she was trying to remove a literal pound of flesh (padded gilet saves the day again). She had just hit a sore bit none of us were expecting and pony reacted defensively. Now, I know that's not the same as what happened with Ozzy but I guarantee there will be a reason for him to have been defensive. Might not be an obvious one, you might never find out what it was, it might not seem reasonable from a human pov but it will be there somewhere. They can't be malicious like, they're literally too stupid.

Also agree on the groupchat vent being INVALUABLE. No advice, just "bloody horses, why do we do this to ourselves, lets set them all free on the mountain" 😂
 
Nancykitt said:
Yes, it was interesting to see Ozzy with OH today. Although Ozzy was definitely in a better mood, there was clear evidence of respect towards the human.

Like yours, our horses do very little during the winter compared to the rest of the year. They are out 24/7 with natural shelter and continuous access to forage. At least once a day they will take themselves down the field and have a bit of fooling around - not entirely great as they've been known to hurt each other when playing! Snoopy and AJ have been fine with this for the six and a half years we've been up here. When we were building the house, there was once a period of around 5 months where we didn't ride once; we took the two of them out and it was like they were in regular work, they were so well behaved.
Ozzy is different to Snoopy and AJ though and we'll have to work around that.

Re. feeding times - I almost wish I'd made a video recording of today's breakfast. Three horses standing right up against each other near the fence, ears forward, looking at us while we mix the feeds. When we picked up the bucket, Ozzy moves to his own feeding station, the other two move a little way in the opposite direction. Absolutely zero evidence of any negative feeling. They then each ate their meals and went to the haybell. This has been pretty standard for months now and didn't really go wrong until last night. When OH was working away from home I could happily feed all three, they followed the routine and were never any trouble whatsoever. But we're going to stick to OH dealing with Ozzy for a little while now. It's best for Ozzy and it's best for me.
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I agree, would be a shame to put him down (and might not be easy to convince the vet) altho worse futures do exist for horses.
Winters can be rough, and no one should deliberately risk themselves / horse / other road users in horizontal sleet or Biblical storms.
However, it would be unprecedented not to have any lulls in the wind, including NE Scotland - even if still raining, cold and generally miserable - and Ozzy’s behaviour would be well served by taking full advantage of every opportunity, if hoping to progress him.
Yes, it’s a bind, unnecessary with your others, but makes a significant psychological and physiological difference to the horse, as any hunt groom will attest:
Tack on, straight out for a couple hours round the roads, walking, trotting, transitions, insisting he keeps busy whenever you want him - not when he might feel like it. Maybe one could accompany on a bicycle? He really would benefit from putting to some solid employment!
 
NK, I'm not going to offer advice as to how to handle him as I think plenty has already been said on here! You and your OH are to be commended on your efforts to do the "right thing" by Ozzy and have clearly made progress with him overall. I'm sure yesterday gave you a huge fright and was painful however, personally I wouldn't jump to the PTS decision some posters would after one incident, especially as he behaved this morning. Everyone, including horses can have an off day, you may never know what caused it - was he testing the boundaries, feeling sore or uncomfortable, hungry.... who knows? Your plan to monitor him and take precautions going forward is eminently sensible and hopefully there won't be another incident like it. If there is then it's a bridge to cross at that time. I really think a lot of posters don't realise the reality of keeping horses in places like where you live - professional practitioners are few and far between and you generally have to wait for them to be visiting an area so appointments may only be available months ahead. The weather is vastly different to most of the rest of the UK so winters can be hugely challenging. Crofting regulations are totally different to anywhere else - I pull my hair out with our planners in the central belt but know you deal with even more complexity. Whatever you decide in the long run I'm sure it will be made for the right reasons after careful consideration.
 
EventingMum said:
NK, I'm not going to offer advice as to how to handle him as I think plenty has already been said on here! You and your OH are to be commended on your efforts to do the "right thing" by Ozzy and have clearly made progress with him overall. I'm sure yesterday gave you a huge fright and was painful however, personally I wouldn't jump to the PTS decision some posters would after one incident, especially as he behaved this morning. Everyone, including horses can have an off day, you may never know what caused it - was he testing the boundaries, feeling sore or uncomfortable, hungry.... who knows? Your plan to monitor him and take precautions going forward is eminently sensible and hopefully there won't be another incident like it. If there is then it's a bridge to cross at that time. I really think a lot of posters don't realise the reality of keeping horses in places like where you live - professional practitioners are few and far between and you generally have to wait for them to be visiting an area so appointments may only be available months ahead. The weather is vastly different to most of the rest of the UK so winters can be hugely challenging. Crofting regulations are totally different to anywhere else - I pull my hair out with our planners in the central belt but know you deal with even more complexity. Whatever you decide in the long run I'm sure it will be made for the right reasons after careful consideration.
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This isn’t the first incident though. He’s shown aggression before and badly decked OPs OH for no real reason.
 
Ceifer said:
This isn’t the first incident though. He’s shown aggression before and badly decked OPs OH for no real reason.
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He's certainly been very bad tempered in the past but just wanted to clarify - he didn't deck OH, he just had a massive bucking fit out of the blue. OH has incredible stickability and managed to stay on.
It wasn't pleasant but we then found that he may have been carrying an injury from 'play fighting' with AJ. Again, not an excuse but a possible reason.
He threw a half-hearted bump the next time OH got on him, but nothing major - after that he's been very well behaved when ridden.

Tonight's feed was interesting. OH fed Ozzy and he was absolutely fine. And then he knocked his bucket over, spilling some feed. Normally we'd go over and put the feed bucket the right way up, but as soon as OH moved towards the fence Ozzy's body language changed; he was obviously worried that OH was going to remove his feed. We just left him alone then. He ate it and was calm again.
Last night's incident is obviously still fresh in his mind. We're just going to do the minimum at feed times now (well, OH is, I'm not doing anything at the moment).
Apart from feed times he seems perfectly OK.
 
dorsetladette said:
It there anyway you can put up a penned off area that Ozzy goes into for his feed? It doesn't need to be huge but big enough for his feed to go in and then he is allowed into it. I think someone commented above suggesting that Ozzy is taken to the food rather than the food taken to Ozzy. This may give him some security from thinking that anyone will steal his dinner, which may change the attitude and subsequent behavior. I did something similar by a gate to feed a resource guarder so everyone else could eat in peace. Set up a coral type area round the inside of the gate so I could walk in with the feed pop it down and them open a gate to allow him in. This horse wasn't aggressive to people only other horses so the situation is a little different - but food for thought no the less.
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This. I understand where people are coming from with the whole pipe/stick thing but this is a horse who clearly holds a lot of stress and frustration around food. Picking a fight with him is only going to make that worse.
 
The blue pipe/stick are not intended to pick a fight, they are to give the handler a chance to chase him off and protect themselves if he comes in to attack again. And he will.

When you’ve known of a very experienced horse handler who persevered with an unpredictable tricky horse, and who laughed at her farrier when he told her to shoot it and teased him for getting old, who was found unconscious in the stable after it got her.

No witnesses, she never regained consciousness.
 
The thing about the 'feeding pen'...it's not possible for us to construct anything anywhere that would be any further away from the other horses than he is now. With the current arrangement, he can't see AJ at all and generally stands with his back to Snoopy, so it wouldn't achieve anything in terms of being able to see the others.
But worse than that, it would involve going into the field at feedtimes, catching Ozzy, leading him into a fenced-off space and then getting out of there, which would involve a lot more contact with Ozzy than we have now. There is no way I would feel safe going in to the field at field times - I'd be at increased risk from Snoopy kicking out too if there was any sort of altercation.
They know it's feed time, they stand calmly and watch us mixing the feed before getting into their feeding positions at the fence. There's been no food-related aggression between the horses themselves for months now.
Ozzy's feedtime problems at the moment seem to be down to humans. We don't know why because up until yesterday there wasn't a problem. But after tonight we're going to wait for him to walk to his feeding station, put the bucket over the fence and just walk away. He's fine with that and so are we. OH will carry the schooling whip but we won't be asking for the step back from now; the stick is really just in case anything goes wrong. We just want the minimum of fuss.

The lady who sold Snoopy to us said, as she dropped him off at the yard, 'One thing I meant to mention was that he can be a bit grumpy with his feeds.'
One day later we'd learnt that what this really meant was that he would kick holes in stable walls while eating and trash feed buckets. Worse thing was that he would lift his head very quickly and powerfully - he never caught us but it wouldn't have been pleasant. We dropped the bucket and moved away. That was it. Over the years he improved massively but such deeply ingrained behaviours don't die easily. Thing with Snoopy was that he wasn't nasty at any other time. Daft, maybe, but not nasty.

So we can deal with a food-aggressive horse; the big question is whether this very aggressive behaviour of Ozzy's is restricted to feed times or will now become a feature of his day-to-day behaviour.
If it's the former, we can cope; if it's the latter, I'm not sure anyone can.
But it's too early to decide.
 
Apologies if this has already been suggested upthread as it's a lot to catch up on, but food aggression and resource guarding in horses is often linked to ulcers. Ulcers can be caused by stress but also by underlying pain. I'm wondering if it might be worth trialling him on ulcer meds and see if there's any difference? I know that it can be 'behavioural' too, maybe a learned behaviour from not having enough forage in the past, but worth exploring.
 
Miss_Millie said:
Apologies if this has already been suggested upthread as it's a lot to catch up on, but food aggression and resource guarding in horses is often linked to ulcers. Ulcers can be caused by stress but also by underlying pain. I'm wondering if it might be worth trialling him on ulcer meds and see if there's any difference? I know that it can be 'behavioural' too, maybe a learned behaviour from not having enough forage in the past, but worth exploring.
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Given that the stress of scoping, we decided to try Ozzy on ulcer meds in the late summer. It made a little bit of a difference at the time. We treated Snoopy at the same time and I'd say it made more of a difference to him. Not ruling it out, but it's a tricky one as the scoping would be very, very problematic.
 
Not adding advice, you have had plenty and have your own experience to draw on. So just offering empathy really. I'm experiencing my first 'aggressive' horse with my current mare. I have had her for 18 months and a lot of that has been really tough. Really tough. But as LadyG says above, I know the reasons behind it, so I can work with it. She came to me as a very sweet but very badly socialised young horse with no personal boundaries (because she was so sweet I think she was always in peoples pockets and trying to live in their skin, and it wasn't a problem at that point because she was lovely).

She then really struggled with a change of homes. She didn't speak horse properly so didn't blend with the other horses, wouldn't eat or sleep properly and despite me doing everything I could she developed severe ulcers that sadly healed once and then came back. The aggression has come as a result of feeling incredibly insecure with no support network, sleep deprived, and in a huge amount of pain. Even after the ulcers resolve I anticipate it taking months for the behaviour to fully settle. I can easily see how if I don’t manage it well she could end up like Ozzy and actually making contact one day (not saying you aren’t managing well, Ozzy has had years of changes that could have caused ulcers and similar impacts to my mare). This isn't a mean horse, she is an incredibly intelligent one who craves connection so wants to crowd you, but then her nervous system can’t bare to be touched so would go on the attack. So far it has been all posturing and she has never once truly attempted to make contact, but I can imagine how easy it would be to lose my nerve with her if she did.

She kicked me in the head a couple of months ago which was a bit of a close call and I'll be honest, it has knocked my confidence with handling her hind legs. BUT, she had had a field incident with a gate a while prior to that and after the kick I had a vet revisit the x-rays and it turned out she had actually damaged the bone surface on her hind cannon bones, so I had probably put pressure on the damaged bone and really hurt her. So again I can rationalise her response and put in place measures to help rebuild my confidence in her. She has just attempted to kick again today whilst doing her feet so I am planning to get them xrayed again to see where we are with the bone damage.

I have the benefit of having seen her behaviours at her previous home and know she is the loveliest horse under it all, which is what is keeping me going.
 
BBP2 said:
She came to me as a very sweet but very badly socialised young horse with no personal boundaries (because she was so sweet I think she was always in peoples pockets and trying to live in their skin, and it wasn't a problem at that point because she was lovely).
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Thanks for this - I actually think that Ozzy may have been very spoilt in his early years. Don't know for certain, but there are photos of him as a 'cute foal' on the yard where he was born (and it looks like he was an unexpected arrival). He seemed to be an escapologist, as well as being generally 'naughty' (stealing his mum's food, etc).
When he moved to his next home he was almost 6 and unbroken. He was backed and ridden by his owner - there are videos showing a very compliant horse. But then he was turned away for a long time. So lots of question marks. I still wonder why he wasn't started at 4/5 - or maybe he was and it didn't go according to plan?
The trauma of the auction, his time with the dealer and the subsequent moves really impacted his behaviour. But perhaps a lack of boundaries as a youngster could be at the root of this issue?
 
Food aggression I'm my experience comes from them having to fend others away. Made worse when the weather's bad and not only do they get less from the grass, but they are generally cold and wet.

One thing that may be worth changing is the mixing up of the food where they can see you. As that will be the start of any of the stresses and ears back at each other.

Is it worth trialing?
 
jhoward said:
Food aggression I'm my experience comes from them having to fend others away. Made worse when the weather's bad and not only do they get less from the grass, but they are generally cold and wet.

One thing that may be worth changing is the mixing up of the food where they can see you. As that will be the start of any of the stresses and ears back at each other.

Is it worth trialing?
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There's honestly no sign of them being aggressive towards each other when they are waiting for their feeds. We had a bit of fuss in the early days but it's been very settled for months now.
They don't put their ears back at all. They stand close together, side by side, with no aggression and ears forward. They then start to move to their allocated places when they see us carrying the buckets. I'll try to get a photograph tomorrow. It's all very calm.
They can't actually see the physical mixing of the food of there's a storage bunker in the way, but they know what we're doing as we always emerge with the buckets.

Ozzy is the only problem horse and up until last night there hadn't been a problem at all. His problem seems to be with us, not the other horses.
The feed bins are outside near the bunker - there isn't really anywhere else we can mix feeds (and it's tough in bad weather!)
OH is planning to build an actual feed shed next to the bunker, but this is more for our comfort. The horses will soon learn that we go in there and emerge a short time later with feed buckets!
 
paddy555 said:
he didn't show "that much aggression" he simply behaved as a horse.
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NK described him launching at her, so much so that he half reared and then knocked her off her feet with the bite and almost threw her.

I don't know what else to describe that as but seriously aggressive - I don't think that is behaving as a horse at all!
 
LadyGascoyne said:
NK described him launching at her, so much so that he half reared and then knocked her off her feet with the bite and almost threw her.

I don't know what else to describe that as but seriously aggressive - I don't think that is behaving as a horse at all!
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it's bad, but he did exactly the same thing with AJ in the early days. Poor AJ didn't have the benefit of a coat and a gilet.

It's really not good that he saw me as another horse and did this.

After feeling a bit more positive today I'm back to feeling that this probably isn't going to end well at all and it's pretty depressing.
 
Nancykitt said:
Apologies, I hadn't made things clear in my original post.
I think dropping the feed and moving away will solve the problem.
I'm just really scared because I've never been bitten this badly by a horse.
I've been kicked, but the horse doing the kicking was actually aiming for another horse, not for me. This is different.
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I once got bitten by the safest horse on the yard! I was leading him out to the field and he turned and bit my arm hard enough to break the skin! I could see no warning and no explanation!

You say this is your first winter with ozzy... it's his first winter with you too!

I understand that he was handled by young people previously, and it could be that he feels you are softer and smaller than OH therefore he can menace you and try to shake you down for treats/ food.

I think you should make sure that OH is with you when you feed, just until you are more comfortable with him.
Any signs of ears going flat, verbal reprimand with OH coming in to back you up.

I agree with give food and go, and I agree with either back up every time or not at all.


I think it would be tragic to put ozzy to sleep, at this stage, and I see no reason you couldn't sell on in the future if you needed to, with full disclosure.

I'd also think about maybe watching him in the field for a few hours, as you have one haybell between 3 (?) are you sure he is getting his fair share?
 
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What you said above, chuck in the food then walk away

That is what I always do since forever, I have always fed quickly and left. Feeding out of bucket is their treat, Their time, space, their food

The way horses paw the ground, chew doors, whinny and get generally aroused at feeding time should put us on alert to behave with caution and respect when feeding

Also I feed at the same time morning and evening and allow time for bucket licking etc and rest time to digest and generally relish the noshing experience in total peace
 
Nancykitt said:
it's bad, but he did exactly the same thing with AJ in the early days. Poor AJ didn't have the benefit of a coat and a gilet.

It's really not good that he saw me as another horse and did this.

After feeling a bit more positive today I'm back to feeling that this probably isn't going to end well at all and it's pretty depressing.
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Behaving that way to AJ isnt healthy herd dynamics either. But it does happen, especially when trying to work out their place in the world.
Just for a little positivity if you need it…You could think, he did the same thing with AJ in the early days, but he does not do it now. He has figured out how to exist in the group in a way that does not make him feel he needs to escalate to aggression, even when waiting for feeds to come out. So it is perfectly possible for him to become less aggressive to you.

I think one disadvantage we humans have over horses is how inconsistent we are. And I don’t mean in the routine we have, more that one day we are bubbly and happy and lots of energy, the next time they see us we have had a long day at work and are stressed and agitated, or upset, or frustrated about a relationship issue, or feeling sick. Our level of eye contact varies, our posture varies, the energy we give off varies, some days we are very upright, direct and in a hurry, other days we faff and dawdle. For some horses, especially those who aren’t truly relaxed in their environment, that can be unsettling. That’s what I have found with mine anyway. Those changes really matter to her. The other horses in the herd are generally more consistent in their responses, unless they are unwell. So the more mindful and present I can be around her, the happier she is being around me.
 
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