The perfect contact - how?

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BBP

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Does anyone have any tips/mental images/exercises on or off the horse that can help me to achieve the 'elastic contact' we all ideally want? I have a habit of dropping my hands, turning my hands so thumbs are facing and straightening my arms and opening my fingers instead of being soft through my elbows biceps and shoulders - in effect I am locking my arms. I know i do these things, but I just can't seem to fix it. My young horse is coming along beautifully and I don't want to spoil his training by either giving too little contact or too much of a backwards contact for him to work into. (See picture for what i mean - im also working on tucking my pelvis under more so I don't tip and throw my weight onto his forehand like in picture)
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Also, he is a very quick horse and only 14hh, I sometimes get hurried along my his quick trot and find it hard to channel his energy - my instructor is telling me to slow my rising and sit for longer...but I don't seem to get that concept either! Any other mental images I can think of that will help me to do as Im told?!

(I am having lessons, but she hasn't yet found that mental key that helps me to understand how to achieve the right feel).

Thanks!
 
I know when I was younger it used to be that you had 'a baby bird' in each hand. (The rein is the 'bird') You don't want to hold it too tight or too loose (it would fly away ;) )and equally you wouldn't want to turn it sideways either! (when you lock your hand sideways).

Try half halts if he rushes around so you can think about how your riding etc.

I used to lock my elbows alot but I found if you improve your posture, your elbows immediatley snap back to sides. You want to make sure you dont have them pressed against your sides either, just relaxed. (Easier said than done!) Perhaps try some streches/pilates. I found they really improved how aware I was of my posture and how I rode.

Good luck. :)
 
From looking at the picture you have posted you need to work on your overall posture in the saddle and that would help your hands. You need to sit taller and try not to let your shoulders tip forward. As you have said, tucking your pelvis under will help this.
If you have ideal shoulder/hip/heel alignment you will find it easier to control the trot and stop your horse rushing, as he won't be able to tip onto the forehand as easily.

Imagine you are holding two jugs of water - that will help you keep your hands level. Also aim for a straight line through your lower arm and reins down to the bit - as you can see in the pic you break the line at your hands. Raise your hands slightly and you will pick the whole picture up.

Another thing to help with the trot - if he starts bowling on in the trot, bring him back to walk for a few strides (not too long) and then go back into trot again but at the pace you want. Every time he tries to set the pace, change it yourself so he knows you are in control.

Have a look on youtube for Carl Hester demos (and other dressage riders), I have learnt a lot just looking at them ride and listening to what they say!! Watch their position in every pace and how they ride their transitions.
 
You are definitely right about the posture, my chest and bicep muscles are very strong and tight, so I do need to stretch them more and strengthen my upper back (am qualified in postural correction so you would think I had got mine sorted!). I will try the little bird idea tonight, and try stretching before I ride to relax my chest muscles. Thanks for the reply.
 
Thanks Roody - the tipping and arm locking are age old problems, and I seem to slip into them when he rushes, which is the worst time to do it! I think Im not helping him at all! Sometimes i think he almost rushes to 'catch' me as my weight is too far forwards. I think my tight hip flexors keep drawing my knee and pelvis into the wrong position, so i will work on stretching those as well. I need to engage my abs on him more to hold my pelvis in position.

What i need is some mental images, like the bird thing, to think of as I find this helps me more than just knowing what my problems are. I will definitely start working on transitions more when I lose control of the pace.
 
Alternatively, can you have a lesson on a schoolmaster - this could give you the opportunity to just work on you without having to worry about what the horse is doing. It would be more balanced than your youngster and probably help you a lot even in just one ride.

Also, you can hold a whip in both thumbs over the top of the reins so you can't turn your hands in!!
 
Not really a mental image and a bit of an old riding school trick but have you tried carrying a short stick (whip) under your thumbs so it's balanced across the top. Will keep your thumbs on top and in turn means you will be less able to brace your arms down. :)
 
That's not a bad idea, I can't seem to find a nice place near me though - I was thinking about trying one of those equi-simulators that has sensors on the bit as well as the saddle and gives you computer feedback as the instructor adjusts your position.
 
Do you remember the kids song 'Wheels on the bus go round and round'? (Please say you do otherwise I'll sound REALLY stupid lol). Well, to go with that song, you have to use your arms to imitate the 'wheels on the bus'. Whenever I feel my elbows straightening whilst riding, I think of this action and my elbows loosen up and come back to above my hips where they should be.

Hope this helps, and if you don't know the song, erm well I just look like an idiot :-)
 
Hmm, I know the song, not sure i get the image though! It might make sense when on board. I rode him tonight using a lot of these suggestions and there is so much to think about! It's definitely the tipping forwards I have to sort out first I think - once I was right posturally the rest fell into place...it's just maintaining it! But when I got it right he did start to drop onto the contact and it felt fab!

I think Ive got used to being a lazy passenger not a rider, and you can't do that on a baby!
 
I have to soften my elbows and lift my hands.

Do you find your horse is leaning on your hands? Wouldn't be surprised since he is young and it would explain your position. If this is the case there are a number of ways of working on this.

Lunge lessons would probably help you too.
 
KatPT said:
It's definitely the tipping forwards I have to sort out first I think
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One of my old instructors, retired sadly, used to say imagine having a big smile painted across your chest - keep your shoulders up and slightly back and open up your chest, you kinda have to stick your boobies out a bit - this way the smile is there for all too see. If you tip forward or the shoulders roll down/forward the smile will crumple and not been seen! As my new instructor says when going down the centre line at tests "tits & teeth" towards the judge:o!!

I think lunge lessons will be good idea -I keep thinking I ought to do the same myself, but never quite get round to sorting it out in my lessons
 
First off. And sorry to say this ,but I think your saddle is wrong for you. The usual reason for adopting that position in trot is too forward a stirrup bar.If your ballance is impaired your hands will be also.You cannot win if the saddle doesnt fit YOU as well as the horse.Mike now steps off his soapbox and runs for cover.:D:D
 
I'm sorry to say but I think your saddles tips you forward is it a velvet saddle !! also it
dosn't look a good fit on your horse so if his withers are pushing he saddle backwards into the middle of his back he will not work through his back which you need to get onto the bit properly. Run your hands over his back and if he flinches then he needs a physio person and then she can look at your saddle for you at the same time,I'm sorry to be saying this but there is a reason for your horse doing this although a lot of people cannot get on the bit its a feel through your body and horse it should feel like butter !! have you had anyone sit on your horse to just see if its you I would get an instructor to do this and sit on your boy first see if any different then you sit on him anyway hope some of these pointers help let us know what you decide to do and keep us all in touch, also why do you want to go onto the bit !! is it for shows !! good luck .
 
just re read your post you do say everything ive said to you, has your instructor sat on your horse !! but I would still get your back and saddle checked.try changing the bit to help you a little till you achieve and help you out, I also agree slow your rising down .
 
Hi there everyone, just logged back in thanks for the replies, some very useful ones and everything I have been thinking myself. I am waiting for the saddle fitter now - he got this one as an unbroken 3yo and has had it checked and adjusted several times since, but it is definitely due to be done again as he is changing really fast at the moment. I have through the last couple of times i have taken it off that the sweat marks underneath don't look even so there must be a difference in pressure somewhere. Interesting about the stirrup bar though, hadn't thought of that, thanks (no need to run for cover - I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want help!)

He does have regular back checks/massage sessions, his next is due next week. he doesn't have any obvious sore spots as I run my hands over his back every time i tack up, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything once my fat backside is sat on him! He doesn't lean at all, and I want it to stay that way but fixing everything that isn't 100%.

I absolutely agree, there is a reason (or lots) as to why he and I do the things we do.

So: my action plan!
- back check next week (or this one if I can speed it up!)
- saddle check in next couple of weeks
- lunge lesson on sisters horse with instructor
- simulator lesson
- chiropracter check myself (back neck and biceps all tight, not quite straight in pelvis)
- thorough stretching routine for me each day
- get another job to finance the above if new saddle is required!

I will keep you all posted!
 
hunteress said:
also why do you want to go onto the bit !! is it for shows !! good luck .
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Ah, I never said anything about going on the bit! Just that I wanted to perfect my contact (and position) so it is light, elastic and pleasant for him to work into instead of inconsistent and unclear. Thanks for the help!
 
I'd say the secret is to get everything but your hands right and the hands follow... Seriously if you have your horse working thru from the back end and really sitting into its transitions you find the contact just comes. If you worry about the contact, you'll never get it.... NEVER let a horse lean on your hands - just don't tolerate it... you can always drop the contact if necessary..

B
 
Hi, I have not read all the replies but I would definitely read the ''ride with your mind'' book by Mary Wanless... And then also get some lessons from one of her instructors.

I have one of those instructers and they are fab. Cannot recommend enough really. Could change and secure/strenghen your position in no time.


x
 
Funny you should say that, I have one of her instructors! She is brilliant too, and I am saving to have more regular lessons, just wanted to see if you guys had any extra ideas. Ive never read Marys book though, i'll look it up.
 
Just another one to add to the mix:

To keep thumbs up, imagine smiley faces painted on your thumb nails, you have to always be able to see them smiling. If it gets really bad, do actually paint smiley faces on your nails, although you may get a few odd looks about town!

The elastic contact: imagine a piece of elastic from one hand attached to your tummy button, and then back out to the other hand, keeps the hands up and moving witht he horse.

Both of these have worked for me but I'm still woriking on the posture!
 
KatPT said:
Funny you should say that, I have one of her instructors! She is brilliant too, and I am saving to have more regular lessons, just wanted to see if you guys had any extra ideas. Ive never read Marys book though, i'll look it up.
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Oh that is funny! My instructor is fab and i am lucky enough to have a few lessons a week, so I have made imense improvement on my position in this time and thus in my horses way of going, as I am riding with her more and not against her due to my change in position.

RE position. Think to yourself (and do a mental check ALL the time whilst riding) bend and drop my elbows.... Bend and drop my elbows.. bend and drop my elbows.

Doesn't matter if you have the softest hand, if you have tight elbows and straight arms that's where the tension is coming from. So you have to think the rein is from the bit to your elbow, get that in your head as opposed to the bit to your hand (as then you concrentrate on the rein more and foget about the arm which is where your issue lies anyway)

Also the slowing of the rise down, this will be a bit of a lightbulb moment when you get it... When your ned trots along and quickens up the pace, do not play catch up with him. You trot to your own rise, so say it out aloud. One - Two - One - Two - One - Two etc if you are saying, one,two,one,two you know your catching him up. It has to be to your pace and not his, he will adjust to you. Just keep practicing it, over and over again.

Have many lessons have you had with your instuctor? If you not getting anywhere might be worth trying someone else then. Not that your instructor is bad (I am not implying that) but at the end of the day, we are all different and take information in and learn differently. No point being taught by someone if they are unable to relay this information back to you and for you to learn from it. So maybe someone else can put the same information down better for you.

Goodluck.xxx
 
I do exactly the same as you and I know I'm doing it when it happens, but I can't seem to help myself! Its so frustrating, isn't it? You've been given some geat advice which I can't really add much to but you were talking about helpful mental images - what has been really helping me is imagining I am underwater and the surface is about six inches above my head. I breath in and fill my lungs as if I am trying to rise to the surface and I find that pops me into place, which improves my shouders and then I find it easier to spot when I am about to lock my elbows. My instructor says that my posture is not out much just it just needs tweaking but its a bad habit and its hard to correct. My daughter also rides with straight elbows, I wonder if it is heriditary?! :) When I am looking for the right pace in trot I recite the days of the week.
 
Lots of helpful advice here already! I haven't seen anyone mention wrists, though. I've found that a locked wrist can have a knock on effect and cause your elbows, shoulders and back to lock as well. Next time you ride, spend a bit of time on your wrists - make sure your thumbs are on top, and your knuckles pointing in (not forwards), so there's a straight line from your arm all the way up your hand. Or even have your hands pointing in slightly at first, as this will make it very difficult for you to lock your wrists.
 
Thanks so much everyone, all really helpful advice. Regarding lessons, I have to admit that I have struggled financially the last few months so I have only had a couple. Starting next week I am going to prioritise lessons over food and try to have one every week, as she really helped me last year.

Like you say, it's frustrating, as i know exactly whats happening but can't seem to co-ordinate everything at once. I get really upset with myself as he deserves to have a great rider, he's such a super horse.
 
Plenty of Yoga or Alexandra technique and then some lounge lessons. The angle between your stomach and thigh is too closed and your shoulders need to go back and down. It is a long process but if you keep correcting your posture both on and off the horse, things will start to improve. It also helps to keep thinking of heavy pointy elbows which are just hanging out of the shoulder joints by gravity, your head resting on the top of your spine, chin tucked in a little so the back of the neck is against the collar, raise your ribcage and just think proud/elegance. Also let your legs flow out of the hip joints like running water and drapped around the horse like a wet blanket. hope this helps
 
Humble said:
Also let your legs flow out of the hip joints like running water and drapped around the horse like a wet blanket.
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That's a great metaphor and describes it perfectly!

hunteress - whoever told you that 'being on the bit is for shows' needs their head looking at... please don't listen to another word they tell you ;)

OP - I would agree that the saddle isn't helping you here. It looks like you may be slightly vertically challenged (like myself!) and may find it easier to ride in a saddle with the blocks set further back, or straighter cut one for schooling to allow you the support but also the length of leg.

I would also add that it helps me to think of my arm from the elbow downwards of being an extention of the rein, belonging to the horse, and from the elbow up as part of my body, belonging to me. This discourages fixing the elbow or wrist, and encourages just the right amount of feel through the fingers. This way of thinking also encourages you to use your seat and balance to steady your horse's pace. You cannot increase rein contact without shifting your bodyweight back. The horse then follows to balance himself under your weight and as a result, slows.

My babies are lunged in elastic sidereins, which are loose enough so that they can stretch them to the ground if they try. This gives them the elastic feel, without them being "strapped in." After they've loosened up without the reins on, I attach them, then do a little transition work. It's interesting to watch how, at first, their neck will be straight, but as you ask them to walk, trot, walk, halt, walk, trot etc, they shift their weight back to balance themselves for the transitions and bring their hocks underneath them. Their forehand becomes lighter, the shoulder lifts, the head drops to balance themselves. It gives you a very good idea of what it is you're actually trying to achieve from the saddle and more importantly, why.

Can I just say how refreshing it is to hear someone ask how to establish the correct feel, rather than how to force or fiddle their horse into a false outline. I wish you the best of luck with your pony - he is lovely!
 
You've had some great advice lots of which I shall take on board myself.

The only thing I can add that helped me hugely came from one of Chris Irwin's books - Imagine that you are riding a narrow boat with an outboard motor (at the back end of course ;)). Open your hands a little and think of the reins as the riverbanks. The riverbanks aren't there to direct you but to give you guidelines to sail between and you have to sail your boat (horse's bottom) right down the centre.

I have found that it stops me thinking of my reins as anything to pull, just things to hold steady, and enables me to relax and then the contact follows.

Hope it makes sense and helps :)
 
Munchkin said:
Can I just say how refreshing it is to hear someone ask how to establish the correct feel, rather than how to force or fiddle their horse into a false outline. I wish you the best of luck with your pony - he is lovely!
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Thanks. I just want to be the best rider I can be for him. My legs are definitely vertically challenged, but I am long in the back, so any changes in my balance really affect him. He is ultra sensitive - I love it as he is highlighting all my faults as a rider and making me want to be better and better for him. He tries so hard to do everything I ask him, so I want to make sure I ask him the right questions consistently. The hardest part is not beating myself up for not being good enough for him!

I will keep you all posted (I'll give myself a few weeks to let all the above points kick in and then try to get some more photos).

Thanks guys, you are an awesome resource!
 
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