The psychology of rolling

[Annagain]

Just wondering if anybody knows anything about the psychology behind horses' rolling patterns?

My boy always fascinates me. If another horse rolls he simply HAS to roll in exactly the same spot. Sometimes he can barely wait for them to get up before going down. I watched him this morning. They all (10) got turned out at roughly the same time and several had a roll (another question - why do they roll when turned out?) and he was leaping up from one spot to run to another, down and then up and a 20m dash to another spot. He rolled 6 times in 6 different places, all immediately after his fieldmates. It was like an equine version of Whack-a-mole

Why?

He's bottom of the pecking order, but not frightened of any of them. He's very non-threatening so they don't need to put him in his place and as a result they all seem to love him and him them. Does this have anything to do with it?

 

[Woolly Hat n Wellies]

Sorry, I don't have any of the answers to your questions, but they are things I've often wondered about myself!

My gelding is boss of the field, he has a companion mare and her 9 month old colt. The colt is definitely bottom of the pecking order, but constantly needs putting back in his place, as he pushes and pushes to see what he can get away with. Despite this, he is allowed to share hay piles, put his nose in feed buckets and drink at the same time as the other two, who absolutely will not countenance sharing with one another. He will always roll on exactly the same spot as my gelding has just rolled. Considering his age, I had wondered whether he was trying to pick up the herd leader's scent, since obviously he isn't the gelding's son, so it's interesting that yours does the same. I presume yours is an adult? Is he the youngest in the group?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

its a scent/dominance thing (although that term isnt really accurate)- like use of the midden areas.

 

[DuckToller]

I had a New Forest pony that used to do this - he would watch another horse roll, and stand there fidgeting and hopping from hoof to hoof, waiting for the first horse to get up. He would then throw himself straight down in the same spot, and roll over and over madly, then leap up to see if any other horse had rolled so he could do it again.

I asked about this behaviour on here, and had a few interesting replies (but sadly can't remember much about what was said!). I think one person felt it was indeed a herd bonding thing, with everyone smelling the same. Also that as he had been born in the New Forest perhaps he was more in tune with his natural instincts which is why not all horses feel the urge to roll in the same spot. Certainly a lot of mine will roll when they see another roll, but they don't make the effort to go in the same place.

Don't suppose yours is a NF is he?

Think I also read that rolling is a good way to get bacteria into the skin, which is good for coat maintenance and skin health - might be another reason why they roll in the same spot - as in he knows something good about that place so I will copy?!

 

[Annagain]

Sorry, I don't have any of the answers to your questions, but they are things I've often wondered about myself!

My gelding is boss of the field, he has a companion mare and her 9 month old colt. The colt is definitely bottom of the pecking order, but constantly needs putting back in his place, as he pushes and pushes to see what he can get away with. Despite this, he is allowed to share hay piles, put his nose in feed buckets and drink at the same time as the other two, who absolutely will not countenance sharing with one another. He will always roll on exactly the same spot as my gelding has just rolled. Considering his age, I had wondered whether he was trying to pick up the herd leader's scent, since obviously he isn't the gelding's son, so it's interesting that yours does the same. I presume yours is an adult? Is he the youngest in the group?

He's 20! I've had him since he was 9 (at the same yard the whole time and a very stable herd - although they're all getting on now - youngest is 15 oldest is 23) and he's always done it. He too is allowed to share anything with anyone both if he approaches them or if they approach him. He won't run away and they won't try to chase him, there'll just be two noses in the bucket. At coming in time it's like the parting of the red sea, they all just stand aside and let him through, whereas getting my share horse through the same crowd is a nightmare. He's 3rd in the pecking order and terrified of the top two but vile to anyone beneath him - except my boy of course - so he's either running through and nearly trampling me or starting a fight!

its a scent/dominance thing (although that term isnt really accurate)- like use of the midden areas.

So is he trying to cover their scent with his own and therefore trying to be more dominant or trying to smell like them and therefore trying to be part of their herd?

 

[Annagain]

I had a New Forest pony that used to do this - he would watch another horse roll, and stand there fidgeting and hopping from hoof to hoof, waiting for the first horse to get up. He would then throw himself straight down in the same spot, and roll over and over madly, then leap up to see if any other horse had rolled so he could do it again.

I asked about this behaviour on here, and had a few interesting replies (but sadly can't remember much about what was said!). I think one person felt it was indeed a herd bonding thing, with everyone smelling the same. Also that as he had been born in the New Forest perhaps he was more in tune with his natural instincts which is why not all horses feel the urge to roll in the same spot. Certainly a lot of mine will roll when they see another roll, but they don't make the effort to go in the same place.

Don't suppose yours is a NF is he?

Think I also read that rolling is a good way to get bacteria into the skin, which is good for coat maintenance and skin health - might be another reason why they roll in the same spot - as in he knows something good about that place so I will copy?!

No he's an IDx hippo! He obviously rolls a lot, but he also rolls sooooo efficiently, there's barely a white bit on him at the moment

Thanks - all the replies make sense. He's always in the middle of everyone and never wanders off grazing on his own like some of the others do.

I think he likes to feel part of the herd, it probably gives him security, especially as he wouldn't have the temperament / skills to look after himself if he had to. He needs his minders!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

So is he trying to cover their scent with his own and therefore trying to be more dominant or trying to smell like them and therefore trying to be part of their herd?

I was taught that he would be putting his scent down. A bit too much is made of who is leader and dominance. If you looked at my old band of geldings for example, the lusitano was the bossy one-very easy to think of his as the leader. Its sometimes best to think of bossiness as socially ambitious or like someone is trying too hard. If you sat and watched my lot grazing, going to water and midden areas you'd see that it was the 21yo 12h gelding that they actually took cues for wrt those activities. He didnt enter into the play/bossiness much because he didn't have to. But these things are rarely that clear cut with horses and not linear.

eta I was taught this stuff a few years ago, may have changed a bit but it was fascinating to learn about their body language when they seemingly weren't doing very much!

 

[Annagain]

It is interesting isn't it. Mine loves to play fight, but if they're having a run around he'll wait for them to finish and then wander up and join them. When a new horse joins the herd, there'll be the usual squealing, squabbling and running around. YO owner will always keep an eye until they settle and A will wait with her at the gate until it goes quiet then wander over and make his gentle introduction. He's often the one the new ones pair up with to start. I think he's just a real diplomat.

 

[fatpiggy]

I've certainly seen horses clearly choosing to roll on top of the spot where another horse has just got up from. I've nothing to add to it though I'm afraid. However, I can tell you that my mare used to roll in sheer devilment and she would watch me before she dropped and squirmed about in the wettest, deepest mud there was to be had. One time I was cleaning out the field trough (aka a bath) and the only way to pour it out was towards myself which meant that the denuded ground in front of it became a nice patch of mud. My mare was pretending to graze nearby but I knew she was watching my work. As soon as the water came out she sidled a bit closer. I could read her perfectly well and warned her what would happen if she dared to come and roll in it. She played the innocent of course and carried on grazing. I finished the job, refilled the trough and as I was leaving through the gate, turned back to see her upside down in the mud patch. She KNEW it was naughty so that is why she did it. Her other favourite trick would be to manage to stay clean in the field in winter, then come to the gate to be caught but first have a roll in the huge mud swamp inside the gate first. She would drop like a stone so there wasn't much I could do to stop her. The look on her face when she got up was one of grinning triumph. I have to say that she got enormous fun out of rolling and it was a way of expressing this and excitement. One time I'd been in hospital for 10 days and she had to stay in her stable throughout. As soon as the consultant released me of course I went straight to the yard. I let her loose in the arena and she raced about like a lunatic, always coming back to me and throwing herself on the floor. This went on for 20 minutes and she was up and down constantly. She used to go flat out gallop and then fling herself down and slide along the ground. Interestingly, my cat goes and uses her scratch block when she is over-excited too, races up and down the stairs, then back to her block. Animals are so interesting!

 

[Annagain]

Oh yes I know that sort of rolling. Mine can occasionally be a git to load. He walks on perfectly happily but the second I leave his head to do the breaching bar up, he shoots off backwards. I quickly learned to load him with a lunge line and never let go as if he got away, the first thing he would do is run to a muddy bit and roll. He'll untie himself while being groomed and leg it for a roll too if I'm not careful.

 

[Pinkvboots]

One of my geldings rolls all the time and one of his favourite things is rolling near the fence where there is another field with geldings in, he always goes there to go to the toilet as well its like his marking his territory, his always done it at every yard I have kept him in he was gelded at 4 so not sure if it's learned behaviour from being entire or if it's just that his always been dominant with other horses never with people though he can be nervous of new people.

my other gelding hardly ever rolls compared to him he always looks lovely and clean and the other one is always filthy, I rode him out today with his mane full of wet mud lovely!

 

[millikins]

I read somewhere that wild horses roll far less than domestic ones, maybe makes them too vulnerable? My connie gelding is a confirmed roller and like others rolls in same places as more dominant companions, he is also one of those who has to pee on the hay. The shettie x very rarely rolls though and she's low in the pecking order too.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I read somewhere that wild horses roll far less than domestic ones, maybe makes them too vulnerable?

or maybe its because noone mucks around with their natural coats and weatherproofing

 

[LCH611]

I had a (grey ) horse that was an avid roller. If he saw someone else rolling he would drop to the floor where he was stood and do the same, and then he would go and roll on their patch once they had finished. He was quite a dominant riggy horse. We now have a mini Shetland colt that has just been weaned. His dad's party piece is rolling everywhere and on everything - especially on feed buckets. Hustle has inherited the same characteristics - he is allowed to free range round the barn whilst we are turning out/mucking out in the mornings and his first job once he has finished polishing buckets and feed scoops is to drop and roll outside everyone's stable. I can't see what is so appealing about rolling on concrete, but he applies himself to the task with great enthusiasm. He then "helps" muck out by going in and out of everyone's stables and rolling in a couple of places in each one. He may only be less than 8hh and a baby, but he is definitely all hair and attitude

 

[LCH611]

or maybe its because noone mucks around with their natural coats and weatherproofing

Our new mini has an incredible coat (I have already made it quite clear that I am playing no part in removing it in the Spring when he moults) and he is the rolliest onme of the lot - and I have 4 greys that are fairly committed to the cause!

 

[WelshD]

very interesting. I've always wondered why they dash outside to roll when they have huge, clean and well bedded stables!

One of mine is a princess and you can see him wrestling with his reluctance to roll when the first bit of skin hits wet mud, he kind of straightens back up in horror but I suppose the urge to roll is so great and he soon goes down for a roll

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Our new mini has an incredible coat (I have already made it quite clear that I am playing no part in removing it in the Spring when he moults) and he is the rolliest onme of the lot - and I have 4 greys that are fairly committed to the cause!

I have two Exmoors who love to roll too and they are left pretty much left coat-wise. I think the natives get pretty itchy tbh in anything but the coldest weather. Both of mine will opt to roll on hardstanding on occasion! They'll not roll in heavy rain and I expect that's because they are shaped for water to run off them and their coats are designed for that too. Any other weather is fair game though and they need it for fly protection, getting coat out, behaviour etc etc. Neither of my lusitanos will/would roll (and the last one was a grey) when it was cold and wet, although they both loved proper snow.

 

[Annagain]

Arch won't roll in very dry weather. I got really worried about him last summer, thinking he was starting to feel his age and was worried about getting up. Then the rain came and I wished it was really dry again. It's obviously not worth it if it's not going to get you filthy. My farrier has a theory that greys like to roll in mud in as they're trying to camouflage themselves as otherwise they'd be more vulnerable to predators. I'm not sure they have that much self-awareness? Although if that is the case I think he's safe.

 

[laura_nash]

One of my geldings rolls all the time and one of his favourite things is rolling near the fence where there is another field with geldings in, he always goes there to go to the toilet as well its like his marking his territory, his always done it at every yard I have kept him in he was gelded at 4 so not sure if it's learned behaviour from being entire or if it's just that his always been dominant with other horses never with people though he can be nervous of new people.

My daughters pony was entire until 2 years ago (at aged 12+) and he always rolls in the same designated spot or spots in the field. Even if he has been out of that field for 6 months plus its always the first thing he will do, go roll in his rolling spot. He also does all his poos in one or two piles (very handy that one). He's not dominant at all with people or horses. His "spots" aren't usually near the boundary, but the only ever neighbours are a broodmare or a couple of old donkeys.

 

[supsup]

Do you think it could have something to do with insecurity? In the sense that rolling makes a horse vulnerable, and maybe rolling where another horse has rolled before means that place is "safe"? Not sure why the horse would continue to roll in every single spot that the other ones have used though.

On a ride through Iceland, I once saw that the horses almost cued up to get in line for "the" roll spot. They'd been put into a grassy paddock for a break, and there was just one hollow spot with bare dirt, and clearly they were all after a nice dust bath to dry their sweat. In that case, I think it was simply the dusty surface being preferable to grass.

 

[ycbm]

What's going on with my two year old mini then? She seems to have a fetish about rolling in hay piles. She stands in it and pulls it around with her front feet and then goes down only at the front and rubs herself in it like my female cat does with a fur throw. There's definitely something a bit kinky and very compulsive about it. She's clipped out, so it's not a coat thing.

 

[Cortez]

I have a theory about rolling which may explain why stabled horses tend to do it more than field kept ones: rolling helps horses to keep their guts sorted out and in the right place in their abdomen. This would explain why colicy horses want to roll so much, and may in fact be them trying to untwist their intestines, not the cause of torsions.

The psychological bit, I haven't a clue!

 

[_HP_]

What's going on with my two year old mini then? She seems to have a fetish about rolling in hay piles. She stands in it and pulls it around with her front feet and then goes down only at the front and rubs herself in it like my female cat does with a fur throw. There's definitely something a bit kinky and very compulsive about it. She's clipped out, so it's not a coat thing.

My Welsh a does this....just cannot help herself. Her knees are buckling before I can shake the haylage out. She also rolls whilst eating out of a bucket.

 

[supsup]

What's going on with my two year old mini then? She seems to have a fetish about rolling in hay piles. She stands in it and pulls it around with her front feet and then goes down only at the front and rubs herself in it like my female cat does with a fur throw. There's definitely something a bit kinky and very compulsive about it. She's clipped out, so it's not a coat thing.

Ha! My old mare used to do that too. Thing is, her teeth were poor, so even though she couldn't actually chew the hay (this was hay put out in the field for the other horses), she'd still paw at it and roll in it. I did wonder if it was a version of saying "this is mine!", or maybe whether she'd been used to being stabled on something like straw, and simply loved the feeling of rolling in the hay when the only other option in the field was dirt/mud.

 

[_HP_]

Horses roll for many reasons....stress is a big one. If you introduce a new horse to a herd, or a herd to a new field they will often start licking and chewing and rolling. I wonder if stabled horses roll becuase they are anxious about finding their place in the herd each time.
My Welsh a will use any excuse to roll...she'll roll on a new bed, an old bed, a concrete yard, a puddle, a feed bowl, a pileof hay, anyone that gets in her way anything...
She particularly partial to sheep poo....

 

[ycbm]

My Welsh a does this....just cannot help herself. Her knees are buckling before I can shake the haylage out. She also rolls whilst eating out of a bucket.

Mine's given that up lately, but last year she was doing that too. It's a bit weird, isn't it? She looks like a junkie desperate for a fix.

 

[Holzdweaver]

My boy is a dedicated roller too, thankfully he is not a grey! He has his own mud patch to roll on, none of the other horses use his patch either and he isnt top of the pecking order, the two mares are above him, they seem to roll where ever but Darcy has his patch and uses it on every roll that i see. In each field he makes his own patch haha! Its a pain really as the other horses will roll and come up clean and mine rolls and comes up filthy even in summer.

New field and the start of his patch

Later on in the season and he has it well established!

He doesnt roll in the school even when loose but in snow he will roll wherever

 

[Annagain]

The more I read of this thread the more I think they're all weirdos! Much like us no doubt.

 

[Pinkvboots]

My daughters pony was entire until 2 years ago (at aged 12+) and he always rolls in the same designated spot or spots in the field. Even if he has been out of that field for 6 months plus its always the first thing he will do, go roll in his rolling spot. He also does all his poos in one or two piles (very handy that one). He's not dominant at all with people or horses. His "spots" aren't usually near the boundary, but the only ever neighbours are a broodmare or a couple of old donkeys.

maybe it is learned behaviour from being entire someone once told me it's common for stallions to poo along the fence line I have no idea if it's true as I have only ever owned him.

 

[Brightbay]

First of all, domesticated horses that we manage aren't the best to study in terms of working out horse behaviour. So what they do and don't do isn't really helpful in terms of working out the original functions of some behaviour.

Feral horse groups have specific rolling spots. They all roll in these spots - possibly originally chosen for the type of surface. The surface will help with coat care, reduce parasite load and probably scratch itchy bits and help with coat shedding. However, as the spots get used, they turn into little hollows with coat grease, shed hair and scents.

Feral groups are family units, and by using the same rolling spot, they develop a distinctive signature scent that's a combination of the whole group. Horses recognise each other very much more than we do using scent - because a lot of their interactions happen in the dark and they don't vocalise much. When meeting new horses, they extend their noses forward and smell each other.

Some aspects of the behaviour may be related to dominance - with dominance, you always have to ask which specific resource is being contested? In the case of rolling spots, you would want to roll first if you wanted to make sure the rest of the group had your scent. You would roll later if you wanted to make sure your scent carried as much of the rest of the group's as possible. If you were younger and more defenceless, it would probably make sense to cover yourself with everybody else's smell.

In domesticated situations, we do not have stable groups. The horses have been removed, very young, from any family grouping, and are frequently moved at our whim from group to group. Each time, they have to try to fit in with a new group of unfamiliar horses (and none of the horses in the group know each other very well). In addition, we separate them once a day, so any attempts they make to form a cohesive group are constantly interrupted. We also get worried when they actually manage to form a stable group and show us that they don't like being separated, so we shuttle them around again. Or stick them on individual turnout. And then we rug them, so all the coat grease and loose hair build up on the inside of the rug, meaning they can't transfer it to a rolling spot, and any rolling spot will do since none of them have a "family group" smell. And the act of rolling doesn't satisfy, since they're doing it with a rug on, and the sandy soil isn't getting worked into the coat.

Taking all that into account, rolling in domesticated horses is probably driven by quite strong and slightly frustrated urges to form stable groups with horses they don't know or trust much, and similarly frustrated urges to care for their own coat and skin.

A final thing I've noticed is that with unrugged horses, rolling has a weatherproofing function - they roll in mud when it gets windy, because the mud has a "hairspray" effect by sticking all the coat hairs together, making them more windproof

My group (live out, group is fairly stable with few coming and going and several long term "friends", and mostly unrugged) do share a few favourite rolling spots, and when the big one rolls, the others will usually follow, either in the same spot or adjacent.