The Taming of Totilas

My husband is sitting here with the tv sound as loud as he can possibly have it :( Can someone explain to me what happened to Totilas as I have never followed him.

Thank you x
 
He was sold after his and Edward Gal's spectacular success.
His new owners and riders seem to favour harsh methods of training and from the u=TUBE clips, poor Totilas is scared of being patted now
 
I don't know much about dressage its never been a field I have ventured into although I do like to watch it and I have to say how sad for the horse :(

Just goes to show that a horse is only as good as its rider when it comes to team work.

I wonder how many other horses who although not at this level have great potential that is wasted by the riders lack of ability and pay the price for it.
 
termonlady said:
He was sold after his and Edward Gal's spectacular success.
His new owners and riders seem to favour harsh methods of training and from the u=TUBE clips, poor Totilas is scared of being patted now
Click to expand...

whereas Edwards used Rolkur... which does seem to get forgotten.
 
I am fascinated at the subtle use of language to create a story of the hero and the evil :rolleyes: Gently insinuating that EG has been ''helping'' and ''supporting'' the horse through the hand (;)) and MR is ''forcing'' it through the leg and seat...
Yeah, sort of, right...
 
They are just very very different riders EG is so skilled with hot horses a master .EG and the horse where a team it's sad , mainly for the horse.
If you watch EG ride its a master class In Never blocking the horse with the riders body and seat unless you really really need to when he does he gives to them the moment they respond.
 
If PETA manages to pursue a case it will more likely be on the grounds that the horse is kept isolated and stabled. There are already countries (Scotland?) that have laws against keeping horses without equine company and there is precedent in Germany for more strict welfare laws than in, for instance, the UK. Imagine the fuss if you introduced a law against clipping whiskers here! ;)

Re the training methods the new owners actually moved the horse to a more 'classical'/'correct' regime (although it's not that simple) and have now moved BACK to the his previous training methods, which are in some part the subject of the suit.

We shall see. PETA is known for courting publicity - look, they've got us all talking about them. ;)
 
TarrSteps said:
If PETA manages to pursue a case it will more likely be on the grounds that the horse is kept isolated and stabled. There are already countries (Scotland?) that have laws against keeping horses without equine company and there is precedent in Germany for more strict welfare laws than in, for instance, the UK. Imagine the fuss if you introduced a law against clipping whiskers here! ;)

Re the training methods the new owners actually moved the horse to a more 'classical'/'correct' regime (although it's not that simple) and have now moved BACK to the his previous training methods, which are in some part the subject of the suit.

We shall see. PETA is known for courting publicity - look, they've got us all talking about them. ;)
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Thanks for the information...I chose not to see the video as a real good v bad but really interesting as how the rider impacted the horse. The presenters weren't always saying Totilas as perfect either. I think this is a real illustration of how dressage is changing for the better
as borne out by the Olympic results!!!
 
I totally agree with you. We should mount a campaign to have Edward Gal ride Totilas again
horseloaner said:
I don't know much about dressage its never been a field I have ventured into although I do like to watch it and I have to say how sad for the horse :(

Just goes to show that a horse is only as good as its rider when it comes to team work.

I wonder how many other horses who although not at this level have great potential that is wasted by the riders lack of ability and pay the price for it.
Click to expand...
 
I'm always amazed that when Totilas is mentioned how Edward Gal is portrayed. It was Gal who first used Rollkur to train Totilas, as he does all his horses. Rath is a exponent of a more classical style where hyprflexion isnt used, the problem was that Totilas had been trained this way and Rath has had to change his style to attempt to get the best from the horse to try and live up to the expectations and pressure put upon him.

Those who dislike rollkur but wish for Totilas to be reunited with Gal - why? He was ridden in rollkur and, according to interviews with Gal, recieved no more turnout there than he gets with Rath. Why do you want him to return there? Why is that better? Do you really think Gal cared that much? I think you are sadly mistaken if you expect a pro-rider like Gal to have been crying into his cornflakes over loosing the horse, other than him loosing the chance to win more medals. Pro riders loose and gain horses all the time, they use training methods that some people don't agree with and they often keep horses in ways that us leisure riders don't find acceptable - that's professional horse sport, deal with it and stop singling one poor guy out when what you're complaining about is endemic throughout the sport.

Totilas has, at times, looked improved under Rath, but who knows the damage that has been done by Gals training and riding methods.

A link for the Gal fans, check out this pic...
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...strian-federation-takes-stand-against-rollkur

Also a quote from Raths father and principle trainer regarding using rollkur - When questioned Klaus-Matin Rath (father and coach) said "Totilas has been trained for six years this way, if you take over a horse and try to work only in your own riding method you find out very quickly that it is not an easy work. Overtime you can progressively change".
 
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horseloaner said:
I don't know much about dressage its never been a field I have ventured into although I do like to watch it and I have to say how sad for the horse :(

Just goes to show that a horse is only as good as its rider when it comes to team work.

I wonder how many other horses who although not at this level have great potential that is wasted by the riders lack of ability and pay the price for it.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that Rath doesn't have the ability?
 
That was very interesting, if only to illustrate the difference in riding styles. As for training... Well, the horse looked happier and more relaxed with Gal, and less so with Rath. Rath is braver than I would've been to take Totilas on after his phenomenal success with Gal, BUT then again... results at this point are irrelevant from the POV of his connections; Totilas has achieved pretty much everything he could've and his 'potential' is not in question.
Largely irrelevant ramble above ^
 
I kinda feel sorry for Rath. If he did well with the horse everyone would be saying it was Gal's hard work paying off, if he did badly it would be cos he is not good enough.

I don't for one minute believe that horse had a more natural existance with Gal.
 
Fair comment
Scarlett said:
I'm always amazed that when Totilas is mentioned how Edward Gal is portrayed. It was Gal who first used Rollkur to train Totilas, as he does all his horses. Rath is a exponent of a more classical style where hyprflexion isnt used, the problem was that Totilas had been trained this way and Rath has had to change his style to attempt to get the best from the horse to try and live up to the expectations and pressure put upon him.

Those who dislike rollkur but wish for Totilas to be reunited with Gal - why? He was ridden in rollkur and, according to interviews with Gal, recieved no more turnout there than he gets with Rath. Why do you want him to return there? Why is that better? Do you really think Gal cared that much? I think you are sadly mistaken if you expect a pro-rider like Gal to have been crying into his cornflakes over loosing the horse, other than him loosing the chance to win more medals. Pro riders loose and gain horses all the time, they use training methods that some people don't agree with and they often keep horses in ways that us leisure riders don't find acceptable - that's professional horse sport, deal with it and stop singling one poor guy out when what you're complaining about is endemic throughout the sport.

Totilas has, at times, looked improved under Rath, but who knows the damage that has been done by Gals training and riding methods.

A link for the Gal fans, check out this pic...
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...strian-federation-takes-stand-against-rollkur

Also a quote from Raths father and principle trainer regarding using rollkur - When questioned Klaus-Matin Rath (father and coach) said "Totilas has been trained for six years this way, if you take over a horse and try to work only in your own riding method you find out very quickly that it is not an easy work. Overtime you can progressively change".
Click to expand...
 
ester said:
well said Scarlett, a lot of people don't seem to know that Edward uses rollkur
Click to expand...

Well they are pretty uniformed if they don't know that.
For the horse at his best with EG was the happy athlete we are looking for but some of the performances with Rath have looked well I cant think of the right word but they saddened me , seeing the horse who moved so easily between movements look so tense and unhappy yes I found that sad.
 
I was having a convo on facebook comments the other day re the peta thing and at least 2 people said that it was such a shame he couldn't just go back to Edward and they didn't know until it was pointed out. Leisure riders who perhaps only follow for the 'big events' and not overall. I'm not sure I would know if I didn't spend so much time here/on the net. I thin
 
When EG first got the horse he wouldn't get on it, it took years for the partnership to come right. Rath hasn't had the horse that long and was thrown in at the deep end. Initially he didn't use Rollkur to train Totilas but has improved since he went back to the originally methods EG used.

I hate to say it... The reason is so many people want Totilas to go back to EG is because Rath is German.
 
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