The Taming of Totilas

All the way through their commentary the 2 men kept saying "ignoring the training methods used" when refering to Gal. But surely the training method is important in the outcome. It is sad so many top horses (not just dressage horses) have what seems to me, to be unnatural and harsh lives and training - but we all enjoy the results so maybe we need to not go and watch these riders? Just a thought....

I do feel sorry for Rath but at the same time these people must all have thick skins and their aim is not for the likes of us to "like" them - they are ambitious and want results and recognition - and they want it badly. Otherwise they would not be in the position they are in.
 
I quite agree and I HATA Rollacur
Goldenstar said:
Well they are pretty uniformed if they don't know that.
For the horse at his best with EG was the happy athlete we are looking for but some of the performances with Rath have looked well I cant think of the right word but they saddened me , seeing the horse who moved so easily between movements look so tense and unhappy yes I found that sad.
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termonlady said:
He was a happy horse with Gal; he is tense and looks strained now; that cannot be either kind or sportsmanlike.

Rollkur or not: reunite Gal with Totillas
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But there's the rub, isn't it? If rolkur is the devil's work and makes all horses unhappy, why did the horse "look" happier before . . ?

Could it be not that simple?

This is my issue with people supporting PETA because they agree on one small point. They are not a welfare organisation, they are an animal RIGHTS organisation. Their ultimate agenda is to address any incident of animals being used for "entertainment", which pretty much includes all horses these days . . .
 
Regardless of how each rider trains and so on the fact of the matter is with Edward Gal Totilas was a champion, looking relaxed, calm, happy and like he enjoyed performing. Now, he has lost all his sparkle and just looks miserable. So what Gal was doing before and lets face it, we don't actually know, clearly suited Totilas better than Rath.
 
NinjaPony said:
Regardless of how each rider trains and so on the fact of the matter is with Edward Gal Totilas was a champion, looking relaxed, calm, happy and like he enjoyed performing. Now, he has lost all his sparkle and just looks miserable. So what Gal was doing before and lets face it, we don't actually know, clearly suited Totilas better than Rath.
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They just sit so differently if you watch the two riders whatever they ride there a huge difference in the way they use the back and seat.
Just an aside from my lowly place can you imagine going to try Totilas yulp scary thought.
 
Goldenstar said:
They just sit so differently if you watch the two riders whatever they ride there a huge difference in the way they use the back and seat.
Just an aside from my lowly place can you imagine going to try Totilas yulp scary thought.
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Yes, Edward sits very quietly which Totilas seem to prefer. I think this whole sad tale just proves how much of a partnership it really is, Totilas was a champon with Edward, simply having the horse is not enough.
I would be scared I'd break him!
 
Perhaps Totilas is stale and would benefit from a change of work.? Hacking out, pottering over a few xc practice jumps, chilling in the fields, going hunting for half a day? I wonder if he has ever done more than school and compete and travel and be fussed over, forever spotless, by himself in a stable?
 
NinjaPony said:
Regardless of how each rider trains and so on the fact of the matter is with Edward Gal Totilas was a champion, looking relaxed, calm, happy and like he enjoyed performing. Now, he has lost all his sparkle and just looks miserable. So what Gal was doing before and lets face it, we don't actually know, clearly suited Totilas better than Rath.
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Well, we do know he used rolkur. Before the media got hold of it, it was hardly a dirty secret. ;)

I don't disagree - although such a change is not all that uncommon with top horses changing riders. How do we know the horse doesn't miss his groom or the horse that lived next to him?

I'm not trying to be difficult. How can people say in one breath "this training system is demonstrably damaging and 'anti-horse'" and in the next, "but this horse looked happier when he trained that way". The horse has now been returned to working under the supervision of a trainer who is possibly as closed to demonised as anyone working in the industry today. It is VERY unlikely, at this point, the horse will return to his previous form as too much time has passed, but it will be interesting to see.

Btw, I'm not sure I'd want to be ANY top dressage horse. But is seems odd to hate the sinner and the sin but love the product.
 
TarrSteps said:
Well, we do know he used rolkur. Before the media got hold of it, it was hardly a dirty secret. ;)

I don't disagree - although such a change is not all that uncommon with top horses changing riders. How do we know the horse doesn't miss his groom or the horse that lived next to him?

I'm not trying to be difficult. How can people say in one breath "this training system is demonstrably damaging and 'anti-horse'" and in the next, "but this horse looked happier when he trained that way". The horse has now been returned to working under the supervision of a trainer who is possibly as closed to demonised as anyone working in the industry today. It is VERY unlikely, at this point, the horse will return to his previous form as too much time has passed, but it will be interesting to see.

Btw, I'm not sure I'd want to be ANY top dressage horse. But is seems odd to hate the sinner and the sin but love the product.
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I'm not condemning or condoning either method, but there is no denying that the partnership was a good one, and like I said, it highlights the issue that you cannot take a "wonder horse" and expect it to perform the same with a different training method, technique, groom, set up etc. Success can be a combination of factors.
I didn't watch the whole video, too long, but I do feel sad for Totilas that he is in isolation especially, he doesn't know his own worth.
 
TarrSteps said:
Well, we do know he used rolkur. Before the media got hold of it, it was hardly a dirty secret. ;)

I don't disagree - although such a change is not all that uncommon with top horses changing riders. How do we know the horse doesn't miss his groom or the horse that lived next to him?

I'm not trying to be difficult. How can people say in one breath "this training system is demonstrably damaging and 'anti-horse'" and in the next, "but this horse looked happier when he trained that way". The horse has now been returned to working under the supervision of a trainer who is possibly as closed to demonised as anyone working in the industry today. It is VERY unlikely, at this point, the horse will return to his previous form as too much time has passed, but it will be interesting to see.

Btw, I'm not sure I'd want to be ANY top dressage horse. But is seems odd to hate the sinner and the sin but love the product.
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I think the role of the groom is often underestimated with horses a good groom can pull a horse though difficult times relax them after difficult training be on his side when times are hard yes Totilas needs a good groom he can trust .I hope he has one.
 
Yes, thats such a good point.

A horse can do dressage very well AND ENJOY IT without using force, e.g rollkur, to ram them into an artificial outline. Our horse and ponies have GRADUALLY learned to take a contact and in particular, our horse loves doing dressage. She works in a Baucher and has achieved success without having her neck pulled down. She seems to enjoy herself, as her tail swings and her ears are in the relaxed position
TarrSteps said:
But there's the rub, isn't it? If rolkur is the devil's work and makes all horses unhappy, why did the horse "look" happier before . . ?

Could it be not that simple?

This is my issue with people supporting PETA because they agree on one small point. They are not a welfare organisation, they are an animal RIGHTS organisation. Their ultimate agenda is to address any incident of animals being used for "entertainment", which pretty much includes all horses these days . . .
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