The tenants with the springer

Kaylum said:
Sorry your wrong. Youth Training Scheme is exactly the same as the apprenticeship scheme today. Place given within the work environment and a college place. It helped a lot of young people get into the work environment and get extra qualifications. Its ok to do an apprenticeship today and not stay on at 6th form well it was the same then. Please remember that.
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well, that's me told! sorry, but it did have a terrible reputation in its day and was the butt of many jokes but as with all these things, obviously not justified across the board. My post was meant somewhat tongue in cheek as I left school at 16 myself. I went to work as a working pupil for no wages, just room and board.

I am a big fan of apprenticeships and hope to be able to provide one myself but I am not a big fan of paying people ridiculously low wages just because they are training.

Its seems to not be the norm these days for people to leave at 16 which is a shame. In my school, it was weirder to stay on to sixth form back in the 80s, but then, it was a terrible school.

*wonders how far I can push derailment further :p* (sorry Clodagh, I will stop now)
 
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Continuing on the the derailment...

I do get the comment about locums being less the ideal...having been a locum on and off..... its very different to being a GP..as a gp you know and understand the history of the patient..as you have experienced it with the owner and written the notes...you have an idea of where you are planning to go next if x doesnt work and usually have a good rapport with the owner so can explain why you think x would be a good idea...and know what concerns are likely to be raised and the owners experience and understanding level before you even walk into the room....you also are aware of the mulitple other issues and drugs the patients are on now and have had in the past and how easy or difficult x or y will be for the owner to administer....on so its easier to make choices without having to wade through an entire tx...

As a locum you are at the mercy of someones else notes and have a hostile owner who really wishes their vet was there...and they are right... continuity of care is extremly important....and thats one thing vets seem to be doing better then docs at the moment....

derails thread further by mentioning how people now have multiple specialists and departments on their cases when they have multiple health issues...which can lead to issues esp when adding new drugs etc as communicating appropriately with the other medicine departments in some cases seems to be a bit poor in some cases..

.....it is easier when theres one person who knows and understands whats going on...and a locum often isnt going to be that person.....
 
MurphysMinder said:
You can show a neutered dog, just have to write and inform the KC. A judge isn't supposed to penalise but I don't often think a castrated male will be placed above an entire male of equal merit. In bitches of course its not so easy to tell and I think quite a few spayed bitches have won well.
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The reason that castrated males don't get placed at KC shows is because every breed standard states "male animals should have 2 aparantly nirmal testicles fully descended into the scrotum"
IMHO we should have neuter classes at shows and you should be able to make up a neuter champion after all this is what happens at cat shows. Neuters become premiers, entires become champions they then challenge for best in show.
 
Aru said:
Continuing on the the derailment...

I do get the comment about locums being less the ideal...having been a locum on and off..... its very different to being a GP..as a gp you know and understand the history of the patient..as you have experienced it with the owner and written the notes...you have an idea of where you are planning to go next if x doesnt work and usually have a good rapport with the owner so can explain why you think x would be a good idea...and know what concerns are likely to be raised and the owners experience and understanding level before you even walk into the room....you also are aware of the mulitple other issues and drugs the patients are on now and have had in the past and how easy or difficult x or y will be for the owner to administer....on so its easier to make choices without having to wade through an entire tx...

As a locum you are at the mercy of someones else notes and have a hostile owner who really wishes their vet was there...and they are right... continuity of care is extremly important....and thats one thing vets seem to be doing better then docs at the moment....

derails thread further by mentioning how people now have multiple specialists and departments on their cases when they have multiple health issues...which can lead to issues esp when adding new drugs etc as communicating appropriately with the other medicine departments in some cases seems to be a bit poor in some cases..

.....it is easier when theres one person who knows and understands whats going on...and a locum often isnt going to be that person.....
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Whilst you and I have a fundamental and an irreversible stance on the neutering of very young puppies, you've offered a word-perfect synopsis of the problem which both locums and owners face. The locum vet, having no knowledge of the owner, nor being able to properly assess any owner-offered statement, will be in as much of a quandary with the owner, as probably the animal! It's a Catch 22 isn't it?!

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Whilst you and I have a fundamental and an irreversible stance on the neutering of very young puppies, you've offered a word-perfect synopsis of the problem which both locums and owners face. The locum vet, having no knowledge of the owner, nor being able to properly assess any owner-offered statement, will be in as much of a quandary with the owner, as probably the animal! It's a Catch 22 isn't it?!

Alec.
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However, I've sometimes found that the locum, because they don't have previous knowledge of a case, tend to be more open minded and look at things from outside the box.
 
Clodagh said:
I think the thread should just wander whither it will...who knows where we will end up!
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There's a world of difference between 'derailment' and 'moving on'. This thread has moved on from the your batty tenants, thankfully! I'll admit that I'm not too good with idiot owners of horses, dogs OR children! I'm surprised that you've kept quiet! :)

Alec.
 
Kaylum said:
Sorry your wrong. Youth Training Scheme is exactly the same as the apprenticeship scheme today. Place given within the work environment and a college place. It helped a lot of young people get into the work environment and get extra qualifications. Its ok to do an apprenticeship today and not stay on at 6th form well it was the same then. Please remember that.

To the people that say the Locum vets are YTS people why would you even say that? What is the point of saying that? Are you saying YTS people are rubbish? Are you saying the vets are rubbish? One of our senior managers (IT) went on a YTS and worked his say up. Or should we say apprenticeship. Please be careful who you label and what you say about people.
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Nobody said the locum vets were YTS, me and MoC cleared that one up earlier. How on earth could vets be YTS?!

Apprenticeships are brilliant, shame the funding has dropped so drastically. YTS did have a not brilliant reputation, but I think it was an amazing opportunity for kids who weren't interested in pursuing an academically led career and yes, people did very well from it, I don't think anyone's disputing this.
 
Alec Swan said:
Nope. Daffodils.

Alec. :)
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Indeed, I'm heading up that way next week for a big family thing, 17 of us in a massive house. Hopefully we'll see red squirrels! The first night is 'table night' ie bring food for everyone. Any suggestions (not chilli, someone bagged that already)
 
cinnamontoast said:
Indeed, I'm heading up that way next week for a big family thing, 17 of us in a massive house. Hopefully we'll see red squirrels! The first night is 'table night' ie bring food for everyone. Any suggestions (not chilli, someone bagged that already)
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if someone's making chili, then you need corn bread to go along with it of course
 
Just had a chance to wade through this thread - and glad I did.

Firstly, Clodagh - if you could persuade them to part with their dog before he is totally broken, the police are always looking for high energy, ball driven dogs as potential search dogs. Great working home for any dog.

Secondly, thanks Aru for your really informative and interesting posts about your experiences on the other side of the world. I am another one who either does not neuter her male dogs as a matter of course but will do, if necessary, at maturity. I have only had two bitches myself though and I had both spayed at maturity because of the very real risk of a pyo later in life (as neither were to be bred from).

My husband has kept working border collies (as well as the odd huntaway and beardie) throughout his working life and rarely has them neutered or spayed. Last year his older working collie bitch suffered from a pyometra and had to have an emergency spay. Thankfully she came through it okay, but it opened his eyes to the problems of keeping unspayed, non breeding bitches. He only has one bitch currently and is considering having her spayed (by laparoscopic spay on my suggestion) in the near future. Does anyone have any written papers that positively denounces unavoidable weight gain after spay? He is convinced that his bitch will gain weight if she is spayed.

Having read scientific papers (will try to dig them out) about cruciate ligament issues in neutered male dogs (my neutered male show line GSD tore his CL) and also the possibility that HD is linked to early neutering (both issues in my breed - GSD) I will keep my future dogs entire. Having said that, when my OH's bitch comes into season I am often to be heard threatening my male working GSD with two bricks as he turns into the world's worst sex pest! ;)
 
Our bitches have gained no weight at all. They are fed very little though, people are horrified at the thermos lid of kibble they get! I'm sure your husband feeds by eye, not what it says on the bag, so will be fine. Ours put on a bit in the summer (don't we all) then get lean and mean in the shooting season.
 
WorkingGSD said:
Does anyone have any written papers that positively denounces unavoidable weight gain after spay? He is convinced that his bitch will gain weight if she is spayed.
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No papers. But I have the same struggle to keep weight on Mrs Spaniel as I did before she was spayed.
pr9fm.jpg
 
WorkingGSD said:
Having read scientific papers (will try to dig them out) about cruciate ligament issues in neutered male dogs (my neutered male show line GSD tore his CL) and also the possibility that HD is linked to early neutering
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And yet, my entire springer snapped both cruciates and we knew about the HD in my neutered springer before he was neutered.
 
I've had many bitches spayed over the years, never had a problem with them gaining weight. My 2 GSD bitches are both spayed, one 8 years old one 4. Both weigh 30 kg, exactly the same weight as pre spaying .
 
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