The truth about the Horse Hoarder

Horrendous images, and anyone guilty of that kind of cruelty should be hung drawn & quartered, but there's nothing linking those pictures to any person. Absolutely not questioning you, just saying what the pro Clwyd may.

I have no time for the RSPCA, and given what we saw in the documentary I felt they dealt shoddily with the situation. But that kind of neglect is abhorrent.
 
oh my lord!! that is awful, i wish i didn't look at that!!!
now makes sense, usually the RSPCA need constant pestering to do anything so i couldn't understand why they were so hell bent on bringing this guy down. Now i know why!
 
Horrific. :(

His reaction when the proceeds of the sale of one horse had to be spent on wormers etc and his reaction to the dead foal said it all for me.:(
 
I have just seen it too. I refrained from commenting about what a great man he was as I felt the programme didn't ring true but unfortunately he seems to be quite a cruel man. Those poor poor ponies!
 
A woman called Heather Williams posted this on the Facebook page:

Firstly it is good but well over due that this man is receiving professional help. I am writing on behalf of my cousin whose land it is Clwyd is SQUATTING on! We have been told about this page and I purposely have had my Granddaughter open this account so I can comment. I find it hard to understand how people can comment in so much detail about this situation when they do not know the bigger picture or the other side to a story.... I see no questions or support for the frail 80year old man who has been bullied over the past 4 years while Clwyd has been on his land? My cousin and his family farmed for over 60 years at the farm/land. 8 years ago he moved out as he could no longer keep up with daily work/tasks. With no sons/ family to hand farm down to the farm it was quickly robbed and set alight by local teenagers/ thugs when he was not there. 4 years ago Clwyd and his people moved onto land taking all silage and machinery. My cousin to date has spent thousands on trying to remove this man but as you can image as an 80yearold man he is losing the strength/money and power to carry on. There is no question this man loves his horses but helping and supporting him to keep them is like feeding a drug addict. He has a proven track record of ill-treating horses – from Mostyn estates where horses were found dead and not wormed and to Wrexham where dead fouls and condition horses were found. Clwyd does not live in the wild????? He travel around in his tractor and uses my cousin’s plant and machinery without his permission. I have read comments on here about people bring food for him etc…???? You will find him shopping at local supermarkets. There are two sides to every story and people appear on hear only appear to hear one.
I hope this situation is resolved over coming months and Clwyd receives the help he needs and moves on.
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I was totally taken in, annoyed with myself now :(

Those pictures are horrendous. I've just been browsing the facebook page and I've seen some comments that do seem ''off''. Two people asked to be able to see where the money was being spent, questioned the selling of the horses rather than signing them over to a charity, and asked if breeding had stopped, they were met with pretty short shrift although eventually answered.

There was also a comment 'on behalf of the owner of the land' he is squatting on, saying it is an 80 year old man who has spent thousands trying to evict him, and that Clwyd has helped himself to farm machinery and drives around in a tractor etc. It had a ring of the truth to it. :mad::mad::mad:
 
This was posted by Michelle on the Wrexham rescue horses page


Regarding the horrible photographs posted on some forums -

I will not defend anybody's right to allow horses to live and die in these conditions.

Without speaking to Clwyd I cannot confirm whether or not they were Clwyd's horses. However I doubt it because there would have been evidence of a prosecution at this time and there is none. That the RSPCA were called and ignored such cruelty seems most unlikely.

The photographs and posts have been copied and sent to Clwyd's solicitor. It seems likely that they are evidence of a smear campaign.

However, I met Clwyd in June 2009 and have never seen conditions like that in the time I have known him. In Feb/March 2011 some of his horses were in very poor condition and needed some intervention. One problem was inadequate worming because Clwyd did not understand the different types of worms and how to treat them properly. We addressed this as quickly as possible and the condition of the horses improved. A further problem was the number of colts. We targeted these and brought them to the rescue centre for taming, worming, microchipping, passporting etc. In total 30 beautiful, healthy, useful horses and ponies were rehomed. Currently Clwyd has 22 horses which are in beautiful condition. We still have approximately 12 to catch and rehome, leaving Clwyd hopefully with less than 10 older mares and no stallion.

My remit has been at all times to help Clwyd to help his horses which he does indeed love.
 
Shettie said:
This was posted by Michelle on the Wrexham rescue horses page


Regarding the horrible photographs posted on some forums -

I will not defend anybody's right to allow horses to live and die in these conditions.

Without speaking to Clwyd I cannot confirm whether or not they were Clwyd's horses. However I doubt it because there would have been evidence of a prosecution at this time and there is none. That the RSPCA were called and ignored such cruelty seems most unlikely.

The photographs and posts have been copied and sent to Clwyd's solicitor. It seems likely that they are evidence of a smear campaign.

However, I met Clwyd in June 2009 and have never seen conditions like that in the time I have known him. In Feb/March 2011 some of his horses were in very poor condition and needed some intervention. One problem was inadequate worming because Clwyd did not understand the different types of worms and how to treat them properly. We addressed this as quickly as possible and the condition of the horses improved. A further problem was the number of colts. We targeted these and brought them to the rescue centre for taming, worming, microchipping, passporting etc. In total 30 beautiful, healthy, useful horses and ponies were rehomed. Currently Clwyd has 22 horses which are in beautiful condition. We still have approximately 12 to catch and rehome, leaving Clwyd hopefully with less than 10 older mares and no stallion.

My remit has been at all times to help Clwyd to help his horses which he does indeed love.
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Sadly, people will accept that without looking into it further. They want to believe in Clwyd the "Welsh hero" (quoted form the FB page). I suspect those poor ponies are his, personally.

We just have to hope the law takes adequate action in sentencing.
 
I'm interested that Michelle says

One problem was inadequate worming because Clwyd did not understand the different types of worms and how to treat them properly.
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Yet he's been a reputable breeder in the past? Odd.
 
FionaM12 said:
I'm interested that Michelle says



Yet he's been a reputable breeder in the past? Odd.
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Worming is a basic husbandry when you own a horse...its a must know.....tis odd.

If he has money to retain the services of a solicitor he should use it on his ponies...perhaps the donations will pay any ensuing court cases LOL. :rolleyes:
 
Could anyone contact the RSPCA to confirm the photos of the horses or as a query ask to here the specifics of the charges he was found guilty of? The court report would sure make for interesting reading. I presume the RSPCA also have to have written reports of visits so presumably can confirm of these were his horses?
 
I totally agree.

Yes, surely there is no excuse not to know the different worms and wormers to do them. Any feed shop if you go in will ask you what you are worming for and even tell you what you should be doing/using. It is no excuse.

Sadly there will be alot of maybe youngsters and inexperienced people who will see the program and go onto these facebook groups and think there is nothing wrong. Michelle has been shown as an experienced horse woman (No doubt saying she is or isn't, I don't know enough about her) but will then think these things are acceptable.

A lady who is commenting on the group and most of Michelles posts and theres talking between them had her horses taken off her recently for neglect. If she is backing up his horses were in no way neglected etc it just makes me think even more they are.
 
I am in no way defending him in my post btw incase that is how it is read. I just like cold hard fact to rely on, plus although I wished no horse suffered in this way it would stop the 'welsh hero' nonesense if we had evidence it was him.
 
FionaM12 said:
I'm interested that Michelle says

One problem was inadequate worming because Clwyd did not understand the different types of worms and how to treat them properly.
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Yet he's been a reputable breeder in the past? Odd.
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I'm not as used to ride pass the property of a once respected GSD breeder and judge............The RSPCA had to intervene there too as the conditions were truly horrific.

I do believe hoarding is a form of mental illness and as such all logic and sense seems to go out the window.

I feel desperately sorry for the land owner he is squatting on and the horses who are caught up in the mess. All horses need to be removed from his 'care' as he has NO WHERE to legally keep them!:mad:
 
piebaldsparkle said:
I'm not as used to ride pass the property of a once respected GSD breeder and judge............The RSPCA had to intervene there too as the conditions were truly horrific.

I do believe hoarding is a form of mental illness and as such all logic and sense seems to go out the window.

I feel desperately sorry for the land owner he is squatting on and the horses who are caught up in the mess. All horses need to be removed from his 'care' as he has NO WHERE to legally keep them!:mad:
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I'm not disputing that once respected breeders can't be cruel, just that his defence is he doesn't know about worming. Surely anyone who's bred horses must know that?

If those photos are his animals, I hope the law forbids him from keeping horses, but I won't hold my breath.
 
FionaM12 said:
If those photos are his animals, I hope the law forbids him from keeping horses, but I won't hold my breath.
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Even if they aren't he should be banned. Have just watched the program online and what kind of numpty chucks 10 horses including colt out with a herd that also includes colts.................:( No wonder there was a casualty (dead filly).
 
piebaldsparkle said:
Even if they aren't he should be banned. Have just watched the program online and what kind of numpty chucks 10 horses including colt out with a herd that also includes colts.................:( No wonder there was a casualty (dead filly).
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Michelle Crowther states the aim is to leave him with "less than 10 mares and no stallion". So unless the law's firm here, I expect he will end up with some.

It amazes me that on the FB group people came in and asked were those horrific photos Clwyd's ponies, and could this please be verified. The response was a statement by Michelle (hardly unbiased) who said she would ask Clwyd! And the Fb people are more than happy to accept that as an answer. :rolleyes:
 
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Part of the problem here is that

1) we don't know who posted the photos and if they are honestly taken on the land that Clywd currently has his horses on. How many times on here have the words 'Troll' been used??

2) we don't actually know they were his ponies in the photos - we may never know.

3) The property he obviously has access to was not discussed in the program beyond its obvious state of disrepair which was shown. The only thing it mentioned was that he had been a resident there for 8 years. Surely ownership could be easily found by a quick check on the land registry?? Removal of a person who is evicted from a property does not normally take 8 years however if he is squatting illegally then it is fair to assume it is not a simple or easy procedure. In which case I feel for the people who do own the land and property it must be devastating to see it in a state of such disrepair. A lack of sons is one thing when it comes to working the land but renting the land out to someone who is looking to farm the land... such a shame with so many young farmers desperate to own or lease their own place.

4) yes you could hear dogs in the back ground but you also saw people walking their dogs whilst he was in the bath so you could rightly assume locals use it and therefore the dog/s may not actually be his but reacting as mine would do.

I prefer fact to fiction and it is very difficult when reading or viewing based on the internet what is true and what is false. What I do know from the program is that the RSPCA stepped in but their behaviour was not above reproach. The horses that they took were in need of assistance and that the cases brought were we assume as a result of the animals removed from his care. Some of those cases were not upheld. If the photos were accurate and in the possession of the RSPCA at the time of the prosecution then surely any judge in their right mind would have stopped him from owning any animals in future and the rest of the herd would have been removed.

If the RSPCA are still in the process of taking a person to court to stop them owning animals in future perhaps this is why there has been no statement from them.

If Clywd still has 22 horses and 10 are going to be caught, dealt with and sold on leaving a more manageable herd minus any stallions (forgetting the fact that a dedicated breeder will still be able to bring in a stallion if they want to breed) then I for one would support the further reduction in the herd. Having seen photos of some of the horses he has produced I wouldn't mind one myself.

Regarding the donations transparency in any action is always how any charity or organisation should behave. Even if it is just to show a little respect for the donors and the tax man who will always want his share of any proceeds.

It is worth questioning and taking with a little pinch of salt everything that we read. Most things are easily proved with a little dedicated research. I don't have the time or the inclination for that but I am sure someone will. What I do find difficult to believe is that based on a thread on a forum so many are prepared to either donate or condemn with very little evidence.
 
Star_Chaser said:
3) The property he obviously has access to was not discussed in the program beyond its obvious state of disrepair which was shown. The only thing it mentioned was that he had been a resident there for 8 years. Surely ownership could be easily found by a quick check on the land registry?? Removal of a person who is evicted from a property does not normally take 8 years however if he is squatting illegally then it is fair to assume it is not a simple or easy procedure. In which case I feel for the people who do own the land and property it must be devastating to see it in a state of such disrepair. A lack of sons is one thing when it comes to working the land but renting the land out to someone who is looking to farm the land... such a shame with so many young farmers desperate to own or lease their own place.
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Are you sure it said 8 years? He was evicted from the Mostyn Estate in 2009.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/WALES...+me+off+farm;+Tenant,+65,+vows+to...-a0192611
 
Anyone who at this point is assuming that those horses are Clwyd is potentially making an ass out of themselves (you see what i did there?). Now would be exactly the right time for this kind of troll to rear its head. The show was clear about cinvictions and charges, if there had been earlier involvement and neglect to a far greater extent than shown in the programme then I seriously doubt any programme maker would have dared to put any hint of a positive spin on Clwyd.
 
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