The truth about the Horse Hoarder

I don't think we will ever know the full story of Clwyd. The programme was a snapshot basically of his life and horses. 30 minutes of his life really only showed us the tip of the iceberg. It was poorly edited and appeared to take his side.
We were shown him feeding his horses ( throwing food into the mud) but it was clearly not enough.
He seemed to be attracted to Michelle at the start of the programme and then later on seemed to be "coached" into seeing her as a daughter.
We saw him in the bath and he certainly was not a thin man so appeared to be eating well himself.
Hoarding is an illness and he perhaps has other unresolved mental issues.
But the the fact remains this man has dozens of neglected horses under his ownership. As usual the RSPCA have done a monumentally poor job and leave dozens of horses in his care. The 30 mins of documentary did show us how poor many these animals were.
Michelle appears to have a "sanctuary" but am I being rotten when I say her grazing was weed-ridden, over grazed and needed poo picked?! Her horses looked in decent condition 'tho.
God knows what the answer is for these poor horses as the RSPCA seem unwilling to help until it becomes a Spindle Farm type scenario.
They need to grow a set and take the lot from him. It sounds dreadful but perhaps the whole lot of poor horses should be pts. They will have long term problems from worm damage and poorly balanced feet. Many could be inter-bred. Rescues are full to bursting and we are only halfway thru the winter. Goodness knows what state the horses are in now.....they filmed in the spring/summer.
Giving him money will just perpetrate the situation and encourage him to hoard more horses.
I saw the alleged photo's of his horses from a few years ago. But why would the horses in the photos not be his?! It certainly seems to be the way he operates.
And if he is squatting in someone's house/land the law needs to address this firmly.
Channel 4 have plenty cash and perhaps need to follow through after giving us a tiny peek into the dreadful world these poor animals live in.
The over riding concern is certainly for the horses, nor Clwyd.
 
I didn't watch the problem and don't intend to but if those photos are his horses then he shouldn't have been left with any horses. Regardless of any mental illness. That is an entirely different issue which should be dealt with if he is mentally ill.
As he's plead guilty to the neglect why are any left with him or will they be removed?
They would be better off pts as brigadoon says than left in a field with carcasses and if the first photos are his.. broken/severely damaged legs :(
 
glesni said:
Also I wouldnt be taking any notice of a woman who had a crazy idea to breed top race horses and failed miserably so turned her hand to gypsy cobs!!
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Regardless of my opinion on the whole Michelle, clywd, horses, RSPCA thing, what the hell does the above statement have to do with anything???!
 
Just so people are aware, if horses are seized a vet would have been on site to say which are suffering, only those the vet deems need removing can be removed. The RSPCA can only remove with police these. And Billie I'm not aware of what pictures of the RSPCA horses you've seen. We've only seen one (flickr picture) and you (or someone else now) keep saying 'he wouldn't have got off so lightly, they'd have banned him' when was he sentenced and what sentence. The only sentencing I'm aware of is posted on the RSPCA blog link that was posted on here saying sentencing is in April.
 
horsesatemychristmasmoney said:
With the Rileyboy thread, didn't somebody find the picture that he posted, on google? Could somebody not check this picture the same way- to see if it's not a random google picture- I don't know how to do it, but at least that might try and show if it is/is not genuine?
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This has been done by one of the Horse Gossip Moderators and the phots were all taken in May 2008 at the same time.

Apparently this is easy enough to see on photobucket - so they do not appear to be just random photos taken from google.

The girl who took the photos has comeout of anonymous status on HG and is standing by the photos.

Her friend that was with her had the time has also posted.

I think there is a good chance these photos are genuine - it also needs to be remembered that the girl that took the photos was only 14 at the time
 
Just watched programme on the computer and can't feel any sympathy for this man.

Anyone who would allow one of their 'much loved' horses to be chased around, stressed and frightened, and eventually darted by the RSPCA when he could have quietly caught it for them, is no horse lover IMO.

And to then sit there laughing about it??? :mad:

Says to me just how he feels about his horses.
 
CompetitionDiva - my point exactly. If the photos that are being claimed to have been taken at Clywds yard (dead carcasses) were part of a previous investigation as suggested by the original poster then he would have received a lifetime ban for keeping animals. As he received no such ban and has never been subject to a ban then how can the pictures be part of a legitimate previous case against him?
 
Queenbee said:
Regardless of my opinion on the whole Michelle, clywd, horses, RSPCA thing, what the hell does the above statement have to do with anything???!
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I take it to mean that prior to becoming the Angel Gabriel, Michelle was a failed racehorse-breeder who changed direction into breeding or dealing in gypsy cobs, and entirely easier animal to produce to a useful and saleable standard.

BillieBlitzen So what if it's a regular member on here- if this is the inside track, are we not allowed to hear it?
 
brighteyes said:
I take it to mean that prior to becoming the Angel Gabriel, Michelle was a failed racehorse-breeder who changed direction into breeding or dealing in gypsy cobs, and entirely easier animal to produce to a useful and saleable standard.

BillieBlitzen So what if it's a regular member on here- if this is the inside track, are we not allowed to hear it?
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I haven't heard anything new from Glesni except something about another breeder who has nothing to do with Clwyd. I have only heard judgemental, biased opinion.... Which is fine too obviously :)
 
Agree glesni if the grey was pts before rspca and the carcasses were beyond autopsy. There may have been insufficient evidence at the time for a prosecution. Of course it's all speculation as no one knows the facts here.
 
glesni said:
What I have no time for is cyber bullies who throw nasty remarks whilst hiding behind their computer screen.I am a friendly honest person but find a certain member of this forum to be acid tongued . Most comments on forums are biased or personal opinion. I am not on these sites often as can be seen by the amount of post I have submitted. I am too busy looking after five horses and an in foal mare to be here all day posting comments in their thousands. I only came to see if anyone had commented on the programme as I found it quite sickening and false. I cant post details but it really is not what channel 4 have made out.
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What on earth are you ranting on about? No body on here has bullied you, nor is anyone defending this Man and his side kick. I haven't even seen the film so I couldn't possibly comment but if you have evidence/inside knowledge that could maybe be used to convict and maybe even prevent another Spindles Farm, then perhaps your efforts might be better spent speaking to the RSPCA/POLICE rather than picking rows on an anonymous forum.
 
If the grey mare had been destroyed before the RSPCA pitched up, they can prosecute him for it as there's no proof. The picture wouldn't be sufficient evidence.
He also can't be prosecuted for the carcasses as they were too badly decomposed to see how they died.
Even if you COULD prove that malnutrition or similar caused the deaths, you couldn't prove that it was HIS fault.
(I'm NOT saying I think it wasn't his fault - just saying how it stands from a legal viewpoint)

All he could be prosecuted for is what's alive and there as proof.
The dead ones, he can only be prosecuted for failing to correctly dispose of the carcasses.

If the photos were from his place (which I suspect they were) then I can see how he would have slipped out of a ban. :(
 
BillieBlitzen said:
Really? Are they? Comparable to a horse left with a broken leg and rotting carcasses? Hardly.....
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Broken leg? That looks like an angular limb deformity that wasn't corrected to me. Probably should have been put down as a foal, but you can also splint these type of congenital defects.
 
lastchancer said:
What on earth are you ranting on about? No body on here has bullied you, nor is anyone defending this Man and his side kick. I haven't even seen the film so I couldn't possibly comment but if you have evidence/inside knowledge that could maybe be used to convict and maybe even prevent another Spindles Farm, then perhaps your efforts might be better spent speaking to the RSPCA/POLICE rather than picking rows on an anonymous forum.
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Not this thread, true :rolleyes: BB has taken an unnecessarily high tone, though, I feel. *suss* ??? Uncalled for. This forum uses a generic platform and UI is found on many other forums using a similar one.
 
glesni said:
Im not registered to Facebook but his support page can be seen by all. There are lots of people pledging feed, rugs, buckets etc and even cheques. Comments such as "Thank gooodness there are still men like him around" its shocking. As I stated earlier if I left my horses to irrisponsibly inbreed into spiraling unmanageable numbers would the same be said about me.
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Nope. Thank you for posting :)
 
Cortez said:
Broken leg? That looks like an angular limb deformity that wasn't corrected to me. Probably should have been put down as a foal, but you can also splint these type of congenital defects.
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Isn't this common in inbreeding? If my memory serves me right a vet doing a talk at an ISPCA centre I went to was talking about this and counselling against inbreeding/letting horses run wild in mixed herds. He sees a lot of genetic deformity apparently over here in Ireland.

Letting horses run wild cannot be called breeding anyway imo. :confused:
 
I also thought it looked like a limb deformity, not a broken leg.

regardless: I watched the programme. I thought it was very strange. Most of the horses looked ok, although NOT remotely ideal.

I would never send any money, but a fool and their money are easily parted as they say- the power of tv.

What needs to happen probably never will- as much as he likes to think he cares for his horses, he is unable to do so properly. He needs to help himself before he can help horses. Even if the rspca managed to take every single horse away from him, he would have more in the blink of an eye.

Not supporting or condoning- just stating my opinion.
 
amandap said:
Isn't this common in inbreeding? If my memory serves me right a vet doing a talk at an ISPCA centre I went to was talking about this and counselling against inbreeding/letting horses run wild in mixed herds. He sees a lot of genetic deformity apparently over here in Ireland.

Letting horses run wild cannot be called breeding anyway imo. :confused:
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We have plenty of wild herds in the UK. A good proportion of our native breeds
 
Good grief! It was a TV programme and this is an internet forum - neither have any basis in fact - useless speculation all round. Only people directly involved know the truth.
 
Star_Chaser said:
so the only difference is that one is in a smaller area than the other.... ;) :D :p
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Lol, not quite. Horses living in a very large area do appear to have ways of controlling inbreeding themselves through their behaviour and in native herds the colts, fillys and older mares and stallions are sorted/sold off and the herds are generally managed in various ways. Leaving a mixed herd in a field for years and letting them get on with it isn't the same imo but I admit I'm no authority! lol
 
Wait, so we think the pictures are bogus and the TV show were just facts given in an unbiased manner? It's very hard to follow. But I get the distinct impression that even if the pictures turn out to be real it's still not good enough. It will be explained away.

You know sometimes people who make waves, whistleblowers, do in fact get it right. And yet we're all so busy denouncing them and playing the troll card, more horses suffer. Again I will allude to the case going on in California. Because 4 years ago people were reporting on a public BB that things weren't adding up. That 2.5 acres was not an ideal spot to run a breeding farm from. But you know what those people that raised concerns were bashed and ridiculed. The only reason they'd say anything negative was because those people were jealous. So now after 4 years it looks like things are going to change. 4 horses have been siezed and more likely. But to do it right, to shut this person down, it takes time and nothing can be done wrong or the law will side with the person that created the mess.

I can't for the life of me understand how anyone thinks this man should keep 10 horses. How any horse lover thinks this is ok because this man has had a tough life. This will sound crass but many parents lose children. He is not the only one. It's sad, it really is but it doesn't excuse the 52 horses that are suffering. And the ones who have suffered and died previous. At any time any of us can be delt a lousy hand in life. It may mean we lose the animals we love. But at the end of the day we have choices when we choose to be animal guardians. Our needs come second to doing the right thing by them as they can't make the choices for themselves. So you either can handle getting on what life has thrown at you with the animals or you get them safe and then deal with yourself.

Terri
 
Brighteyes... I seem to have taken an 'unecessarily' high tone with Gelnsi because I received some odd PMs from them last night. The first one was wishing to know my location - odd.....
 
When I made reference to 'a broken leg' in the pictures it was because this is how is was referred to in the original post by the person who supposedly took those photos. That person stated that the leg was broken :eek:

But yes, unlikely and more likely deformed.
 
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