The UAE (and the FEI) want shooting - PLEASE help

[madlady]

Signed.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I don't see how this is any worse than some flat/NH racing over here?

Have you watched the video Ester linked to? When do they chase exhausted horses with vehicles and/or grooms on the racetrack at flat or NH races?
Have you read this? http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2...isturbing-photographs-contained-in-this-blog/
Have you read this? http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/shocking-leg-amputation-in-horses-videos-graphic-content-515453

 

[DuckToller]

Signed.

 

[Steerpike]

The winning horse had an accident when it was younger in France which is why it's tail is like that.

 

[laura_nash]

I don't see how this is any worse than some flat/NH racing over here?

I agree, as regards this video.

I had already signed the petition though, take a look at the link ester has posted and the figures (publicly available) on speeds and injury / death percentages.

 

[FlaxenPony05]

Have you watched the video Ester linked to? When do they chase exhausted horses with vehicles and/or grooms on the racetrack at flat or NH races?
Have you read this? http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2...isturbing-photographs-contained-in-this-blog/
Have you read this? http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/shocking-leg-amputation-in-horses-videos-graphic-content-515453

TBH I'd rather see a horse being chased by cars/people splashing water on it than being consistently beaten with a crop, which is what happens in the majority of races over here? I'm not saying it's any better, nor do I condone it, but I'm just curious to know why there's such outrage directed at this particular group of people when a similar thing is happening in the UK. Have those who have signed this petition also signed similar ones to ban racing in the UK?

'These horses seem to be nothing more than disposable non-sentient racing machines to the riders competing in the UAE.' (From the article you linked). You could say the same for many NH jockeys imo. Why the double standards? Genuinely interested.

 

[teapot]

TBH I'd rather see a horse being chased by cars/people splashing water on it than being consistently kicked and beaten with a crop, which is what happens in the majority of races over here? I'm not saying it's any better, nor do I condone it, but I'm just curious to know why there's such outrage directed at this particular group of people when a similar thing is happening in the UK. Have those who have signed this petition also signed similar ones to ban racing in the UK?

'These horses seem to be nothing more than disposable non-sentient racing machines to the riders competing in the UAE.' (From the article you linked). You could say the same for many NH jockeys imo. Why the double standards? Genuinely interested.

You must be watching very different racing in the UK to the stuff I see, epsecially compared to the video Ester linked to. BHA whip rules are maxiumum 7 and 8 times in a race (flat and jump respectively), and think that's a massive sweeping statement re jockeys too.

 

[ycbm]

TBH I'd rather see a horse being chased by cars/people splashing water on it than being consistently beaten with a crop, which is what happens in the majority of races over here? I'm not saying it's any better, nor do I condone it, but I'm just curious to know why there's such outrage directed at this particular group of people when a similar thing is happening in the UK. Have those who have signed this petition also signed similar ones to ban racing in the UK?

'These horses seem to be nothing more than disposable non-sentient racing machines to the riders competing in the UAE.' (From the article you linked). You could say the same for many NH jockeys imo. Why the double standards? Genuinely interested.

Nothing similar is happening in the UK. No horse is consistently beaten. Jockeys ride so short that they can get no strength into a kick, either, and most are simply riding the race rhythm. When a horse breaks a leg it is shot immediately. It does not have the leg amputated and wait for god to decide when it should die. When a horse breaks both legs (Google Splitters Creek Bundy if you have a very strong stomach) the rider does not get off and walk away leaving the horse on its knees in the sand waiting twenty minutes for a vet to put it out of its misery.

So no, I have not signed a petition to ban racing, but I have signed this one.

 

[HashRouge]

Have you watched the video Ester linked to? When do they chase exhausted horses with vehicles and/or grooms on the racetrack at flat or NH races?
Have you read this? http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2...isturbing-photographs-contained-in-this-blog/
Have you read this? http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/shocking-leg-amputation-in-horses-videos-graphic-content-515453

I don't think anyone is disputing that there are major problems in the sport. There is a wealth of information out there about it, including the video that Ester posted. But I assume the poster in question was referring to the video in the OP, which mainly focuses on a well ridden horse who finishes well and certainly doesn't look to be struggling, considering the heat and the length of the race. Unless, as I said, the focus is on the second placed horse, but obviously the video shows far less of him that the winning horse.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

'These horses seem to be nothing more than disposable non-sentient racing machines to the riders competing in the UAE.' (From the article you linked). You could say the same for many NH jockeys imo. Why the double standards? Genuinely interested.

You're wrong, the way racehorses are treated over here is not the same as these endurance horses. I think you need to do some more research as I have to go and pick my jaw off the floor at the suggestion that NH jockeys are 'just as bad' as those who amputate a horse's leg, and then turn it out in the desert to die.

 

[FlaxenPony05]

You must be watching very different racing in the UK to the stuff I see, epsecially compared to the video Ester linked to. BHA whip rules are maxiumum 7 and 8 times in a race (flat and jump respectively), and think that's a massive sweeping statement re jockeys too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbwHOTKhyTQ < I'm still struggling see how the last minute or so of this video is any different from the ones linked above? At all? Re whip rules, if 7/8 is the rule then why does jockey in the blue/pink silks whip his horse 14 times in the home stretch? Curious to know whether he faced punitive action and/or a follow-up by the appropriate people?

And if that is a massive sweeping statement regarding jockeys, then what is this whole thread? Has anyone here actually been involved with UAE endurance on the ground or are you are all just happy to blindly assign stereotypes to whoever you feel deserves it the most?
It disturbs me how whenever something remotely abusive or detrimental to horse welfare from non-Western countries appears on the internet we feel that we can rip it to shreds and blame culture/tradition/religion (oh AND propose to shoot them all? Because that's ok now?) yet we turn a blind eye to the numerous practices that are AS abusive if not more so that happen in the UK/US every single day?

 

[FlaxenPony05]

You're wrong, the way racehorses are treated over here is not the same as these endurance horses. I think you need to do some more research as I have to go and pick my jaw off the floor at the suggestion that NH jockeys are 'just as bad' as those who amputate a horse's leg, and then turn it out in the desert to die.

So evidence from two videos has turned into every single UAE jockey actively supporting amputation and turning horses out in the desert to die? Can we please stop generalising?

For perspective, we don't all believe that every single Dutch dressage rider condones hyperflexion/rolkur just because of Anky van Grunsven. So why do the same for the UAE riders?

 

[ycbm]

Dupe

 

[ycbm]

So evidence from two videos has turned into every single UAE jockey actively supporting amputation and turning horses out in the desert to die? Can we please stop generalising?

For perspective, we don't all believe that every single Dutch dressage rider condones hyperflexion/rolkur just because of Anky van Grunsven. So why do the same for the UAE riders?

Can you do some research before you post? This isn't one or two incidents. The UAE have already been banned from all equestrian international sport by the FEI on the last year and recently let back in. The abuses in long distance racing in the UAE are appalling.

In the incidents shown in the video before this one five jockeys were disqualified and multiple stables disciplined. The FEI reports suggested only one of many long distance racing venues in the UAE was meeting acceptable welfare standards.

You cannot compare a national hunt jockey waving an air cushioned whip at a horse in Britain, with the disgusting stuff going on in long distance racing in the UAE. Nor can you compare use of rollkur by some riders in dressage with the culture of an entire country that it should be God's will when an animal should die.

Well, ok, you can if you want, but it makes no sense.

 

[teapot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbwHOTKhyTQ < I'm still struggling see how the last minute or so of this video is any different from the ones linked above? At all? Re whip rules, if 7/8 is the rule then why does jockey in the blue/pink silks whip his horse 14 times in the home stretch? Curious to know whether he faced punitive action and/or a follow-up by the appropriate people?

He got an eleven day ban for that and a fine, Ruby Walsh in second also received a ban I believe.

I think the difference between the King George at Sandown and the videos of Endurance in UAE, is that the latter involve flogging practically dead on their feet horses, regularly, with little or no regulation.

 

[ester]

I don't think I have ever watched a horse race over here and genuinely thought that a horse might collapse on the run in/die.
In the video I posted that seems a real possibility to me. They are essentially doing racing speeds for endurance distances through the desert.

 

[Flame_]

I also feel for the individuals in these regions who would like things to be different, but the video evidence suggests that they are far outnumbered by people who seem to think it acceptable to ride a 100 mile race as if it were a 4 mile! It's worth noting that most of the riders involved in these races are the employees and family members of just the one guy, HH Sheikh Mohammed. It is a localised deviation from endurance as the rest of the world knows it. After all the faked rides and qualifications debacle I have to admit when making my first post about how the horse in this video looks good, the cynic in me wanted to question whether it had actually run the whole race

 

[Meowy Catkin]

FlaxenPony, you are wrong again. It's not just one or two videos. It's the well documented, endemic corruption and welfare issues that are the issue. As mentioned the FEI has already temporarily banned group 7 countries, they didn't do that over one tired horse, or one unfortunate fatality.

There is a glimmer of hope in the form of Sheikh Sultan Al Nahyan who has achieved high completion rates and zero catastrophic injuries by awarding 70% of the prizes to horses meeting his strict &#8220;best condition&#8221; criteria at Bou Thib. I can only hope that this spreads throughout the competitions in the region.

 

[rachk89]

I don't think I have ever watched a horse race over here and genuinely thought that a horse might collapse on the run in/die.
In the video I posted that seems a real possibility to me. They are essentially doing racing speeds for endurance distances through the desert.

Never seen it happen here either, but a lot of racehorses in America break their legs, or do collapse and die after/during a race, and thats just flat races. But thats bad breeding really more than anything else, and I think they are starting to see the error of their ways and are including British blood into the mix now.

 

[ester]

and dirt tracks, dirt tracks cause legs to break down.

 

[laura_nash]

It's worth noting that most of the riders involved in these races are the employees and family members of just the one guy, HH Sheikh Mohammed. It is a localised deviation from endurance as the rest of the world knows it.

There is a glimmer of hope in the form of Sheikh Sultan Al Nahyan who has achieved high completion rates and zero catastrophic injuries by awarding 70% of the prizes to horses meeting his strict &#8220;best condition&#8221; criteria at Bou Thib. I can only hope that this spreads throughout the competitions in the region.

Both important points ^^. The "culture" is spread from above, and traditions can change (quickly) if the people in charge want them to.

[It disturbs me how whenever something remotely abusive or detrimental to horse welfare from non-Western countries appears on the internet we feel that we can rip it to shreds and blame culture/tradition/religion (oh AND propose to shoot them all? Because that's ok now?) yet we turn a blind eye to the numerous practices that are AS abusive if not more so that happen in the UK/US every single day?

I hope I don't turn a blind eye to any abusive practices, but I'm not aware of numerous practices in the UK that are as abusive (let alone more so) - obviously individuals may well be so but that is different. As to the US, I have been equally appalled and am equally vocal on the "big lick" soring practices and have actively participated on campaigns against that.

I do agree that the title of the thread is in bad taste, but then it got a lot more hits and replies than the earlier one about the (IMO) much more shocking video.

 

[Clodagh]

I don't think I have ever watched a horse race over here and genuinely thought that a horse might collapse on the run in/die.
In the video I posted that seems a real possibility to me. They are essentially doing racing speeds for endurance distances through the desert.

Really not? I am huge fan of racing and love it, but The Grand National, did you not worry than Many Clouds would collapse last year? Ballabriggs was beaten repeatedly in his running.
Yesterday at Exeter there was a decent class veterans chase, and even the commentator said 'This is not a good advertisement for our sport' one horse finished while two collapsed, not to die I grant you.

That aside Endurance is not a sport it is despicable, the methods they use to get the horses heart rates down make me feel sick, let alone any other facets.

 

[Steerpike]

Clodagh, have you ever been to an endurance ride in this country? You should not tar everyone in endurance with the same brush.

 

[Clodagh]

No, sorry SP, I mean in the Middle East, it would not be tolerated here, I hope.

 

[Steerpike]

It's a completely different sport here for the better

 

[tiga71]

As a grassroots endurance rider over here, this makes me sick to my stomach. Nothing they are doing is in the spirit of Endurance as I have to come to understand it. There is nothing about the partnership between the rider and the horse, nothing about respect for the horse, nothing about the wellbeing of the horse.

I will never be a proper endurance rider, I don't have Arabs and will only ever do up to 45km rides. But the more I see of this Middle Eastern Endurance and the silence/lip service/inaction of the EGB on the matter, the less I want to participate in it and support the EGB by my membership. I have rejoined this year, but I thought long and hard about it. I'm not sure I will rejoin next year unless something changes.

 

[ester]

Really not? I am huge fan of racing and love it, but The Grand National, did you not worry than Many Clouds would collapse last year? Ballabriggs was beaten repeatedly in his running.
Yesterday at Exeter there was a decent class veterans chase, and even the commentator said 'This is not a good advertisement for our sport' one horse finished while two collapsed, not to die I grant you.

That aside Endurance is not a sport it is despicable, the methods they use to get the horses heart rates down make me feel sick, let alone any other facets.

No, but I potentially don't watch as much as you . I do just think the speeds and distances are incomparable.

 

[Clodagh]

No, but I potentially don't watch as much as you . I do just think the speeds and distances are incomparable.

I do watch rather too much! Agree about the distances.

 

[Follysmum]

Disgusting and amazing that this is happening. They treat their horses like machines. No way are these people animal lovers, they need banning from the sport. Such a shame that Endurance in our country is having a hard time and being tarred with the same brush.

 

[palo1]

As a grassroots endurance rider over here, this makes me sick to my stomach. Nothing they are doing is in the spirit of Endurance as I have to come to understand it. There is nothing about the partnership between the rider and the horse, nothing about respect for the horse, nothing about the wellbeing of the horse.

I will never be a proper endurance rider, I don't have Arabs and will only ever do up to 45km rides. But the more I see of this Middle Eastern Endurance and the silence/lip service/inaction of the EGB on the matter, the less I want to participate in it and support the EGB by my membership. I have rejoined this year, but I thought long and hard about it. I'm not sure I will rejoin next year unless something changes.

I have a very similar viewpoint but I have not 're-joined EGB this year. I hope things show some sign of positive change so that I can, at some point continue with the sport I love.