The UKs first Painted TB mare has Painted TB foal

angrovestud

angrovestud

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We are so Thriled to announce that Whatabaze has foaled a fantastic purpose bred sabino/splash/ possible dominant white carrier colt foal this morning hes just great so glad hes arrived safely.
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Thanks we love him yes hes by Ricco, we are pleased hes not tobiano, as we wanted to prove our breeding theory and hes done what I thought he woud do, which is random white patches in more an overo patten as Ricco line is nureyev he is a carrier of a newly identifed gene called dominant white as its in Ricco family and Angrove Dance girl.
 
That's interesting I always thought that that line had the Sabino white which although dominant can hide as it has incomplete penetrance? Have some of Nureyev's descendants tested W ?

The extreme Sabinos mainly trace back to Selene the Dam of Derby Winner Hyperion. Selene appears top and bottom in Nureyev as he is inbred 4x4 on Hyperion himself. I had thought that judging by Selene's involvement in this that she was homozygos for Sabino White, but that cannot be the case if this is Dominant White as it is lethal in double dose?

The NZ bred white mare The Opera House (2006) has Selene in her pedigree -Top line 7 x 6 x 8 x 8 & Bottom line 8 x 6 x 8 x 8 x 9 x 7

Arctic White (1999) in the US has her in the top lin 9 x 8 x 9 and in the bottom 8 x 8, He also has Selene's 1/2 brother Bosworth x6. Atctic White's dam the aptly named Not Quite White only has Selene in her top ine 7x9 But has Selens's grandsire Cyllene 9 x 9 x 8 top and 9 x 9 in the bottom line.

Interestingly Cyllene is a grandson of Bend Or, he of the white spots fame, was that an indicatior that he carried a lot of white factors?


I was looking for a ref the other day in some 80's TB breeder mags and was suprised at the lack of white markings in UK TB's at that time, but with the modern influence of some sires with quite a few sabino markings I think that this type of marking will become widespread and it will not be long before we see the likes of Pancake in some very illustrious winners enclosures, such is the nature of Sabino.
 
Thanks Karynk
I will go back to a paper and read more about which families were studied i dont know if The decendants of Nureyev tested positive for W but there seems to be about several mutations of the gene and include Incompete dominants

The artical below gives ref to the newly I.D eed gene and the mutations a bit above my head but Tosca is the same family as Puchilingui in that Native dancer is in both pedigrees.

http://www.duncentralstation.com/PDF/KITGeneMutations-Castle.pdf
native dancer seems to be appearing in a lot of the pedigrees
 
Thanks V much for that had a quick scan read and looking like W2 for all whites in TB's as W5 solid relatives tested negative, and could also be available in homozygos in theory. Will have a proper look over the weekend.

Native Dancer is a GG son of Selene's son Sickle and is linebred on Cyllene 6 x 7 x 5x 8 on his sire line.

Puchilingui has Selene x7 on his sire side and 6x7 on the dams and Cyllene 9 x 8 x 8 x 6 on the sire and 9 x 9 x 9 x 8 x 9 x 9 on the dam!! So there definately looks to be a link, certainly with the mare Patchen Beauty they are sticking to a formula where Selene and Cyllene are linebred in the stallions they are choosing, but it did not work with Skip Away in 2007!

So maybe Bend Or was the original mutation????
 
Does make you think doesn't it that the white is comming from him?

Patchen Beauty is a bit different as she is from a line of whites. but it's the total crop outs from conservative parents that interests me as what is making this happen, it must be more than just one gene????

Thanks for the clips I will have a good look on mobile broadband ATM and that's useless for watching them!!

Here is a link to a picci of Bend Or here and you can see white blobs on him! http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bend+or
 
Oh Thank you for this, I see what you mean I think there is and must be a connection between the Birdcatcher Waxy and whalebone.
 
Back at the puter now had a full day scanning/ covering bad evil mare playing buckaroo with the stallion after telling him all day she was ready.
ready to start procceding tomorrow.
the tetrarch seems to be very mixed up with this and also lord Derby had a sabino arab big white socks right past the hocks and sabino spotting on body, that stubbs painted 1700's so the introduction of birdcatcher tickings /and clyde spash correct if I am wrong they have not tested positive for SB1 they must be in the TB from good old hunter mares along with norfolk trotters, so there must be a fair old mix going on black Tomey seems to crop up so many times and Reliance is in whatablaze pedigree.I think you are spot on pardon the Pun that we will see a lot more like this in the future I also bred from a mare years ago a half bred cobxTB to a well known coloured stallion and the progeny was then bred to a sports horse and then went on to have a lethal white and this was Tobiano carring the LWO gene in the TB but of course it was hidden.
Sorry I am dyslexic by the way so I do ramble and spell really badly.
you just never stop learning and I love that.
 
Just looked back on Yukichan and sure enough Selene both sides! 9S x 8S x 7D x 8D x 9D x 8D
Dad Kurofune line bred on Hyperion 7s x 8D x 6d
White Mum Shirayukihime has Selene 6S x 7S x 8S x 7D x 9D x 9D x 9D x 9D and Cyllene 9s x 8S x 9S x 9D x 9D.
She has real ability too, hopefully she will have a son at stud and that would show us a bit more of how it works! Looked at anther picture of her and she has pigmentation around the eye! My sister has long held that snowcap appaloosas are not part of the leopard complex but a form of sabino (now probably dominant whites) and I agree, am tempted to contact the research project and see if I can get my extended snowcap tested!




Bend or is really inbred and some of them show white on the coat but you can't really tell if it's odd markings or rubbing of tack! Besides around that time who knows what the parents were and like you say there was a real mix at the start of the breed including Hackneys. BTW they have been around since the 1300's and were the horses that went to America with the common horses of Spain and also formed the Spanish PRE and Lusitano so it's all a bit incestuous!

Certainly looks interesting. Thing is chrome became unfashionable a few 100 years ago, ergo the likes of the Cleveland bay and the Suffolk punch, as it was linked with weak feet and certainly twenty years ago in the UK there were few white markings. But the Yanks never really worried about that sort of thing, a horse was a horse to them and often the difference between life and death so in their culture white did not matter.

There was an old rhyme if you have a horse with 4 white legs keep him not a day, 3 white legs send him far away, 2 white legs – give him to a friend and 1 white leg keep him till the end, so that was probably a result of the prejudice!


There were some problems round sabino 1 testing, probably because they couldn’t explain why theorised sabinos like clydes and arabs were not testing positive. They did withdraw the test at first.

I used to work with hackneys; my old hackney who died a few years back had a mother with a white front leg and huge body patch, my boy had sabino white lower legs and the tiniest of white patches under his belly around his mid section. She never threw her white on her foals, she was bred to a bay sabino stallion along with another mare, with no white. “White leg” had a foal with 4 white legs the other mare threw one with a belly patch!! (her owner was not best pleased!)

But certainly I have been saying for a while Coolmore in particular are about to get a shock birth! Took a picture of a youngster by a Coolmore stallion at the National Stud a few weeks ago Mum a fairly conservative bay and foal white to knees and hocks. It seems that the sabino builds in power then mutates into something else, maybe that’s what happened with the LWO gene? It’s quite an exciting time at the moment with all this research we can finally start to really understand what is going on!!

Don’t worry I can’t spell either and I don’t have an excuse!!!

Used to help out on a stud as a kid and hated mares, always swore I would not have one last count I have 6!!! (Not all bitches but one is and she got the turkey baster!) The TB is a dream to cover she is an old pro and very tolerant but will only have a foal when she has no foal at foot.
 
Thats sound very interesting goings on at the coolmore hope you dont mind me asking which stallion was the foal by?
as I am so keen to find girls that carry a mix of these genes.
very interesting thoughts on snowcaps appys I will go and look at some and do some looking up thanks for that.
 
It was a Holy Roman Emperor! I have some pictures somewhere will load em on my photobucket for you when I find the memory card!

A lot of their mares have quite a bit of white about them, one of their recent Oak winners had a lot of white on her legs and Giants Causeway has also got a lot of white, so breeding them together will be interesting.

He is a little darling isn't he are you going to keep him?
 
very unfortunatley we cant keep him if he had been a girl heaven and earth wouldnt have shifted him!!!we have kept a tobiano colt from last year and we have kept a Homozygous tobiano colt 2 years old so we are colted out hes up for sale or swap for a landrover discovery.
Thanks for the stallion tip!
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The foal is out of a Danehill mare by Dr Fong a fab colt and very correct Angrove RumBaBa.

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as a yearling
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