The 'unbreakable' Spotty horse no longer exists!

JanetGeorge

JanetGeorge

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 June 2001
Messages
7,006
Location
Shropshire/Worcs. borders
www.horseandhound.co.uk
Before lindsayh has heart failure, Clyde is FINE!! :D

He's been hacking out for a week now, with one quiet companion, usually Thornton who is rising 4 and been backed for 5 months! :rolleyes:

Today we upped the ante and he went out with TWO friends - and led all the way! Keeping him out of the school for a while as he'll walk, trot and canter on both reins there but he finds canter a bit hard - he still needs to develop more balance and self-carriage and hacking is best for that!

No new video I'm afraid (you're not going to catch ME running down the road with a camera!) - this was when he was JUST starting to trot under the rider - about 2 weeks ago!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqDHqpLUJ5g
 
YAY. Go spotty horse Go.
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Well done he's looking so good. :D :D
 
God, I'm so predictable. For a moment my brain imagined him poofing into obscurity or disappearing over the horizon! It may be time to admit I'm a worrier...

I think I finally have to admit he's backed. Gosh. I can't wait to come and see him, just got to get through my mad weekend at Herts County. Still rather nervous about actually getting on though. What if I break him!? Oh dear, I'm worrying again. I really must get a grip.

Me riding Clyde. Me riding Clyde. Me riding Clyde. I may have to say it a few times before I get used to the idea!

Much love and thanks to all the team!
 
lindsayH said:
God, I'm so predictable. For a moment my brain imagined him poofing into obscurity or disappearing over the horizon! It may be time to admit I'm a worrier...
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You are - and you'll have to stop!! Clyde can worry enough for you both - but he's getting less worried and if he can, you can!! :D

and further proof if needed that things need doing correctly
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You're not wrong! The thing that really pi**es me off - re Clyde and several others like him we've had in - is that some so-called 'trainers' (and some with GOOD reputations and a 'name'!!) will happily take a client's money, fail to back the horse, and claim it's 'unbreakable'!! :mad:

IMHO, there are NO horses that are 'unbreakable' - (although obviously some are easier than others) - just cr*p trainers, and trainers who want to rush the job for 'easy' money!! It's not fair on the owners and it's sure not fair on the horses!!

I'd love owners to start asking trainers to give a 'guarantee' that they CAN back a horse and turn it into a well-mannered ride within a reasonable amount of time. If trainer fails - no bill!
 
JanetGeorge said:
You're not wrong! The thing that really pi**es me off - re Clyde and several others like him we've had in - is that some so-called 'trainers' (and some with GOOD reputations and a 'name'!!) will happily take a client's money, fail to back the horse, and claim it's 'unbreakable'!! :mad:

IMHO, there are NO horses that are 'unbreakable' - (although obviously some are easier than others) - just cr*p trainers, and trainers who want to rush the job for 'easy' money!! It's not fair on the owners and it's sure not fair on the horses!!

I'd love owners to start asking trainers to give a 'guarantee' that they CAN back a horse and turn it into a well-mannered ride within a reasonable amount of time. If trainer fails - no bill!
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JanetGeorge - I wished I had met you when my youngster was meant to be broken. I paid a huge amount to a lady who was meant to break my youngster - only, she was terrified of her, and somehow my youngster also got p*ssed off with her. This despite me having been able to sit on her and trot her for a while - and I am not a professional. I agree my mare at 16.2hh is immensely powerful, but the lady shoulld have known her limits.

The end result is that my youngster is "broken" now - she suffered an injury at the lady's yard, and I don't know whether I'll ever be able to ride her again. She's now probably going off on broodmare loan for a year, and we'll see what happens after. Hopefully, she'll still come sound...
 
JanetGeorge said:
I'd love owners to start asking trainers to give a 'guarantee' that they CAN back a horse and turn it into a well-mannered ride within a reasonable amount of time. If trainer fails - no bill!
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Do people usually pay up front here, then? When I took horses in I always just charged basic livery (or did them where they already lived), we agreed on a goal and a time frame, then the owners paid the balance when the horse was "done" to whatever standard we'd agreed on. The only problem was that people often kept saying "just one more thing" and the horses didn't go when originally planned. :)
 
TarrSteps said:
Do people usually pay up front here, then? When I took horses in I always just charged basic livery (or did them where they already lived), we agreed on a goal and a time frame, then the owners paid the balance when the horse was "done" to whatever standard we'd agreed on. The only problem was that people often kept saying "just one more thing" and the horses didn't go when originally planned. :)
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Nope - most places we knew of only charged a monthly "breaking livery". No guarantees whatsoever.
 
Asking a breaking yard to break a horse in a certain amount off time is un realisic. Each horse is different and will take what ever amount off time that horse needs. I get horse come to me who are deemed as dangerous and most have been up and down the country from yard to yard with so success. Not only can they not break them but the horses become very un settled and stressed. I was given a welsh cob as a gift who was a dangerous nightmare and no yard could break him. 5 months later he is broken and hacking out quitely with me round the roads. He has a very nervous character with no self confidence. He wasn't easy because off his temperment but I had the time to work to let him first settle in. If he was a horse who was sent to me for breaking he properly would have been send away as un broken as no owner would have paid for the time he needed due to his temperment and charater.
So don't blame the breaking yards, a time limit is un fair and they can only do what time the owners are perpaired to pay for. Or if they rush your horse could end up messed up. Maybe more owners should learn how to break their own horses in.
 
He's looking great :) You've done such a good job with him :)

LindsayH - you'll be fine! Just think, you'll be riding the hunkiest gelding around for miles :D
 
Monsters said:
So don't blame the breaking yards, a time limit is un fair and they can only do what time the owners are perpaired to pay for. Or if they rush your horse could end up messed up. Maybe more owners should learn how to break their own horses in.
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I wasn't suggesting a time limit - you're correct in that some horses need more time than others. What I object to is trainers who keep a horse for a couple of weeks - or in some cases, a couple of months - screwing it up totally in the process but still expect to be paid!!

When I first discussed Clyde comingto me with Lindsay I said that we would make a start, assess the damage that had been done by previous trainer, and determine whether we thought he WAS backable. If we'd made no progress at the end of a fortnight, I'd have told her that I thought the horse was a lost cause - OR that he would take 6 months - OR .... Then her decision.

If a horse has been screwed about with, then obviously it's harder and will take longer. But for a 'normal' backer - who had been well handled but otherwise not mucked around with - if I couldn't get it riding reasonably quietly in 4 - 6 weeks then I wouldn't have the nerve to charge for a poorly done job!
 
Bless you all, thank you for your lovely comments!

I couldn't agree more about the problems involved when trying to find someone to break in your youngster. One of the reasons Clyde was left so long was that I found it IMPOSSIBLE to know who to trust after the first time.

I chose Janet (despite her being bl**dy miles away and therefore adding £400 in transport costs!) for two reasons:

1. Personal recommendation. I will never send a horse anywhere without this again. When I did my original 'what shall I do with this horse' thread, 3 people independantly suggested her.

2. She was the only person I'd spoken to about breaking him that gave me any sort of guarantee/timescale. She promised that in 2-3 weeks, I would get a definate answer as to whether they could back him or not. No one else would even give me that! Some even said it would be weeks before they knew for sure (in other words, they would keep plugging away at it even if they weren't getting anywhere with the approach they were taking).

I did also very much like the approach she described they would take with him when I spoke with her.

It's very easy to get this decision wrong, even if you're determined to do the very best for your horse and spending a lot of money it can still go wrong.

Hopefully Clyde's story will help people make better decisions than I did ( until I sent him to Janet :D ).
 
Sessle said:
He's looking great :) You've done such a good job with him :)

LindsayH - you'll be fine! Just think, you'll be riding the hunkiest gelding around for miles :D
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That's a lovely thing to say, thank you! Although I think there are some hunky geldings on Janet's yard who may disagree!

Also wanted to add, in case I sounded hopelessly jaded, that of course there are many very competent professionals out there doing a fabulous job of breaking youngsters. The problem is that it is sometimes hard to tell the difference between them and the less competent!
 
Monsters said:
Maybe more owners should learn how to break their own horses in.
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Just taking this one sentence, I would like to say that a great many owners are indeed quite capable of breaking youngsters themselves, but they may not have either the facilities (yes, yes, I know, a paddock is fine, but a roundpen or arena is better) or the experienced help. The reason many people don't do horses themselves is good old common sense and consideration.

I can do all the basics with my horses, they are comfortable with tack, ground work is established blah, blah, blah.

I actually enjoy being able to walk around, and think that to risk one little accident trying to back a horse alone and spend maybe 6 hours on the ground with broken limbs is foolhardy in the extreme. That is why I pay someone to come and help me, not because I cannot do it, but because I have a family and don't want them to have to find me mangled in a stable or paddock, and either have to bury me or push me about in a chair.
 
I agree with you entirely Enfys. In fact, I used to work on a breaking yard and bought 3 or 4 youngsters a year to back and sell on myself. The reason I didn't want do Clyde myself was that I knew he wouldn't be straightforward due to his character and history. I was prepared to pay for a professional for their greater range of experience and expertise. Soon after, I moved to a private yard and had neither the facilities nor help. Breaking a trickier horse requires at least 2 and preferably 3 competent people, which not everyone has!
 
lindsayH said:
That's a lovely thing to say, thank you! Although I think there are some hunky geldings on Janet's yard who may disagree!

Also wanted to add, in case I sounded hopelessly jaded, that of course there are many very competent professionals out there doing a fabulous job of breaking youngsters. The problem is that it is sometimes hard to tell the difference between them and the less competent!
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There are certainly some hunky colts - one of whom will quickly become a gelding if the bu**er tries kicking me again .....:rolleyes:

Upped the ante today and drove past him in the tractor honking the horn - he looked!! Nothing else!

And Lindsay is right - there are plenty of good trainers who do as good a job as we do - it's sorting the wheat from the chaff that's the problem.

Some guidelines:

1. Personal recommendation (from someone who has actually USED the trainer and is still riding the horse concerned and isn't in a wheelchair) is a good start.

2. Ask to see them working with a youngster - see how they go about it and how the youngster is responding to them. If it doesn't LOOK 'right', run a mile.

3. Ask if you can visit occasionally to see 'work in progress' - if they say no - or try to put you off - run a mile!

4. Ask what gadgets (if any) they use! Before coming to me, a client visited a large yard to enquire about backing. She saw half-a-dozen youngsters standing in their stables in rollers and tight side reins! When she enquired, she was told they were being 'mouthed' :eek: - SHE ran a mile (or in fact drove 100 miles further to bring her youngster to me!)

5. Ask about the 'process' - and the time scale. Obviously it varies depending on how the horse responds, but if they say they should be riding it in 3 days - or 8 weeks - run a mile!

6. Look around the yard - and listen!! If there's lots of screaming and yelling and sounds of horses being 'sorted' - run 10 miles!

6. Ask for references - from happy owners of horses they have backed!! If they can't provide them, run a mile!
 
lindsayH said:
Breaking a trickier horse requires at least 2 and preferably 3 competent people, which not everyone has!
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Backing ANY horse requires at least 2 - and preferably 3 competent people.

1 to ground handle
1 to sit on

and the 3rd with a mobile phone to call the air ambulance if it all goes horribly wrong - and to video progress when it's going well!

Even when a horse is past requiring the ground handling person, I NEVER leave the rider alone in the manege on a barely backed horse. Things can go wrong and the rider may need help - so there's always a sensible 'observer' there.

Hang on, THAT'S A NEW VIDEO!!! I thought Janet had just reposted an old one!!!
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Just checking to see if you were keeping up! :D
 
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