The Value of Potential

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icestationzebra

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Looking through the ads in H&H over recent weeks there seems to be a lot of expensive horses being sold for their potential. Just interested in others thoughts on how potential is valued? In some cases it seems that potential appears to be worth more than actual ability with those horses being more expensive than those actually out doing the job. What do you think? How do people decide on what potential a horse has? Is it breeding? Movement? Mental attitude, Intelligence, athleticism, conformation?.......
Discuss please! It fascinates me......
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It is a marketing ploy!

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No, I don't believe it is in the majority of cases.

Some horses are very, very carefully bred - with both parents being proven from whichever discipline they excelled at.

Let's face it - anything that Amy had would never have been a world beater, or have the potential to be anything other than a nice little allrounder.

However, some foals as they hit the ground are worth more than we would every consider paying for our bog standard little horses.

At the end of the day it's all down to the breeding.
 
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Some horses are very, very carefully bred - with both parents being proven from whichever discipline they excelled at.



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But lets be honest that only increases the chances of success a bit, it does not guarantee anything look at racehorses!

Also look at the millions of horses europe churn out each year, most are very well bred and most achieve nothing and are then sold to us brits for vastly inflated sums of money
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I personally would only ever consider paying out for proven potential, and would only pay for a horse what I could get back if it did only turn out to be average and a good allrounder. But maybe thats just because Ive never had money to splash out. Even a horse with the most amazing breeding may never do anything spectacular IMO.

There are also far to many talented horses out there with owners that will never need their "potential" yet paid silly money for it....
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Sometimes the ones that have the competition 'form' have already been physically ruined (or are well on the road to ruin) thru over production and pressure too young - or their results are with an 'expert' rider 'cos they are completely nuts and you need to be an expert even to stay on them

Those with 'potential' should be young horses with correct - really correct - conformation that will indicate a chance of staying sound when under competitive pressure; a good and willing temprament with a kind eye and showing 'potential' in hand should mean that they are handled, willing and not trying to kick/bite/rear in hand - if you've got something like that in hand what the heck is it going to be like under saddle.

Potential also may well take into account the bloodlines - but here 'famous' doesn't necessarily mean that the progeny will be good - it should be a pedigree that has graded sports horses in the pedigree (i.e. where independent vets/experts have looked at conformation and soundness) and horses that have been out and remained sound and successful

I particularly like to use graded stallions that are still out competing successfully at 14 or 15

So a young horse that has potential is worth a bit more as it shouldn't have been spoilt or had anything done to it to cause long term potential for lameness

Age - well some horses (I've got a mare only just coming out this year at 6) can have reasons why they are still 'potential' at say 6 for a very genuine reason or reasons - in my case the mare had a foal at 4 and was only ridden away late last summer as I had no rider. I wanted her to have a foal, then go out competing and be able to return to foaling again later, rather than get her going and then stop for foaling and lose competition years.
 
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Sometimes the ones that have the competition 'form' have already been physically ruined (or are well on the road to ruin) thru over production and pressure too young - or their results are with an 'expert' rider 'cos they are completely nuts and you need to be an expert even to stay on them


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I completely agree Airedale, I wouldnt pay out silly moneyfor something that had been pro produced either, I would only pay out money for a horse produced carefully with proven results, suitable for its age. But if I was paying silly money, i would want proof it could do the job. There are a few beautiful young horses going for 20k as potential eventers that have never seen a XC fence. To me, that wouldnt be a sound purchase, as the horse may not even begin to consider the job it has "potential" for.
 
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It is a marketing ploy!

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No, I don't believe it is in the majority of cases.


At the end of the day it's all down to the breeding.

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I agree. You wouldn't expect a Donnerhall baby to go for the same as an unregistered horse. Such a baby would probably be worth more than most of us would spend on a produced horse.
 
Breeding is important, if you breed to quality horses with proven ability and good conformation and temperments, the chances are you are going to have a good foal.

I have nothing against buying a horse with 'potential' , our bay was advertised as a 'potential dressage horse.'
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agreeed - if it is a youngster for eventing you'd expect to see it move loose and free in a school with paces to do well in the dressage phase and to be enthusiastic about jumping - wanting to go and loose jump that fence rather than doing it 'cos it's a lane that is fenced it and people are chasing it round into a situation it cannot avoid

we have an old jumping pony in the yard - if you loose school him and there are jumps in the arena he'll jump them himself - take himself over a figure 8 course all on his own - 'cos he loves it

I'd expect to see a young horse not jump these stupid 4ft jumps but to want to pop a little fence with enthusiasm

when a couple of mine were graded and hadn't loose jumped before what was said was that they aren't looking at how high the horse can jump but were looking at it's attitude to doing something new and how it took to the experience and learnt from any mistakes.

for a potential eventer I'd expect it to learn and have that 'wanna jump' attitude. Might not mean it's seen a XC fence but in the right hands that can be taught - after all XC horses have to learn about ditches, corners, water, banks - they aren't born knowing how to tackle them - comes from the combination of horse and the right rider

potential can also mean - potential to do well for an average to good rider - or potential to be brilliant - but only if produced by an expert
 
I'd say "potential" should be based on a number of factors. Breeding and conformation for a start, however some very well bred or very correct horses never do anything.

Assuming the horse in question had been lightly worked under saddle, I'd expect a horse with "potential" to be showing a really good attitude to work, very willing, good paces, showing enthusiasm for jumping and demonstrating power and ability.

I wouldn't pay a lot for a horse on breeding alone, but if it was a youngster showing all the signs of talent and a great attitude, to me that is far more important than perfect conformation or great bloodlines.
 
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Breeding is important, if you breed to quality horses with proven ability and good conformation and temperments, the chances are you are going to have a good foal

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Not necessarily. Attutude is 90% IMO, and that is difficult to breed. Comes down to the nature vs nurture debate.

Also have no probs buying a horse with potential, after all we wouldnt buy anything unless we thought it could potentially do the job we brought it for, therefore have potential... just object to having to pay ridiculous over-inflated amounts for it!
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Does it just have to be youngsters that are advertised with "potential". My 16.3 tb x id gelding could surely be advertised as a "potential eventer", well he is 10, and prob wouldnt be any good, but he has the height, and the right mix of breeding, in fact he just looks like a stocky tb.
 
with the right attitude and soundness a horse can have potential to go on and do different things

you could sell something at 18 as a 'potential schoolmaster' if it is an easy ride for an average rider and is being taken out of e.g. grand prix dressage

or what about a 'potential dressage horse' when a 3 or 4* eventer is retired from the jumping phases ........

potential isn't always ridiculous to be assigned to a horse over 4 or 5 - it depends on the reason(s) and the 'potential' being claimed

what about a 'potential' eventer for something that has just done county WH ?

also I don't think 'nature' is 90% - leaving only 10% for conformation - out of balance to me - I think more like 50% conformation, 40% temp. and 10 % pure breeding (i.e. to a 'name') as the temp and the soundness will determine the long term return on the investment in keeping and training the horse

no conformation indicates future soundness problems. bad attitude indicates training problems and both together mean likely expensive bad tempered horse on box rest that is only suitable to be ridden by a pro
 
This is really interesting cos I have just gone out and bought a young horse despite being told I should not - as I am old and get a bit nervous. i.e. buying potential rather than buyng the safe option - something thats been out and seen it all.

( Will let you know how it goes - if things go well! )

However - Why did I buy a young horse then. I found that I was only looking at youngsters partly because I went to studs where there were a) lots of horses to see in one place and b) I felt that they had a name to protect and would want to sell you something that you got on with.

I did the private sale thing before and it used to take all day to see 2 maybe 3 horses - and often they were nothing like advertised.

I think as well that the thought is there that if it has done well it will be really expensive - and if it has not then you dont want it - or it is more of an unknown than a horse from a breeder.

I think the pipe dream is there too. I LOVED riding all those horses and I am not a great rider so often struggled to get the horse to circle and then they helped me - a free riding lesson. It was great.

Sue
 
Excellent thread! Whilst "potential" seems to feature in every ad going, and as such makes me wince, there have been some very good definitions on it through this thread.

On the question of breeding, I believe attitude is VERY dependant on the parents, particularly the mare. One other feature that I would look for in a "potential" competition horse, in addition to those listed above, is very good natural balance. A horse who is comfortable with his body and its balance will find everything so much easier.

However, having said what would be the perfect "potential" horse, I think it's worth remembering an awful lot of misfits have been champions in all disciplines. They may not have been the easiest, or found the work the easiest, but thanks to one or another redeeming quality they have overcome perceived disadvantages.
 
I was pondering the very same thought the other day as a friend is looking for an allrounder, safe, sane, etc etc.

However, most of the ads we looked at were for unproven in breeding as well as ability and just the usual "great potential" which any horse has in a good home. I think most of it is balls if I am honest, at the cheaper end of the market....

I think horse prices have gone stupidly high and potential without proven ability or breeding is the potential to make it what you think it will become.

I dont want to pay for potential, I want to pay for proven ability, even for an allrounder I expect some local wins and form!
 
I personally don't buy based on "potential" as some of the best horses Ive had have been those that don't initially look like they'll get very far in life!

I think attitude is the biggest factor. I had one horse who was sold with "masses of potential" which it had, except it didnt have the attitude for it and was a complete bas*ard most days!
 
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