The vet visit that didn't go as expected...

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Sophstar

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Had my 2 ponies checked over today. My little one is a confirmed cushings pony and the vet has very kindly snuck me onto pergolide rather than cost of prascend:D Bad news but manageable. Second pony my 19 year old cob was checked a couple of weeks ago for hind limb lameness and the vet suggested arthritis. His trot up today was awful and is now 4/10ths lame and now compensating for his soreness by twisting through his back and pelvis. The vet now thinks it's bone spavin and was pushing for me to go for joint injections as he's too old to be put on the operating table to fuse them, but I am really not keen on injecting. The vet also said he faces a future of living on bute. With the injections at £150 a go (he's not insured) and no certainty they will help, the bleak expression on the vet's face almost said a thousand words.

I know deep down that to put a pony through a predicted cold winter with constant pain and then to hit spring where he suffers awful pollen allergies and becomes unrideable for most of the summer, is not a future I want to give him. The vet visit really didn't end on a positive note.
 
Am really sorry. Even if you were insured, only one years treatment would be paid for. You sound like a caring owner and I know you will do your best for your horse. Best wishes fir happier horse times in the future.
 
So sorry to hear your news. Terribly sad when these times come. But just wanted to say, should you decide to PTS as the kindest option, please do not beat yourself up about it. With kindess and love, it doesn't have to be at all unpleasant for the horse. I had to do it last year and mine was having a cuddle and eating her favourite food, and I know she didn't suffer in the slightest. It's tough on the humans left behind but as time's past I feel so much happier knowing I did all I could to make the end as wonderful as it could be and that she's not suffering any longer.

(((((((( Massive hugs )))))))))
 
So sorry to hear about your vet's visit.

I had the vet up last week for one of my horses and had a discussion about my old retired boy and we came to the decision to have him PTS this Friday. He has Cushings, had had two major laminitis attacks and ruptured his tendon which has resulted in damage to his knee.

I really didn't feel that he would do well in the winter when the ground freezes so we have dosed him up on bute and are letting him eat nearly as much as he wants. He looks happier already and does not know what is going to happen.

It was a hard decision to make but one which I think - and hope - is best for him.
 
I thought pergolide (human form) had been withdrawn due to severe side effects??
As for the spavins, if they can be managed with bute, then I don't see it as a death sentence to be honest. My mare was diagnosed at 17, and I continued to ride her till she was 23, no injections, no bute, just a joint suppliment (mobifor).Spavins will fuse on their own in most cases, and the key is to keep riding them, making them confortable with painkillers if they need it. Vets are keen to push expensive treatments these days.
So please don't be too down in the dumps, it can be managed.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your news.

However, my mare was diagnosed with bone spavin at the age of 12. Vet said there was little point in injections since she was already fairly advanced with it, so we put her on bute for 12 months and let it fuse up on its own. We could then take her off the bute and, as long as I was careful with her (warmed up carefully, didn't jump huge and loads, and kept her in work) she was absolutely sound as a pound and still has a very full life.

It is not an 'end of the world' diagnosis, and many horses can and do continue to lead productive lives with bone spavin.

Has the vet x-rayed and confirmed the diagnosis this way yet?
 
The spavins will probally do well on Danilon it is affordable for long term use but if you can get him comfortable you will have to be brave and focus on how lucky he is to have someone caring for him and he's not ignored in a field in the wet and cold
Thinking of you lots of hugs
 
lhotse said:
I thought pergolide (human form) had been withdrawn due to severe side effects??
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What are the severe side effects?
My mare has been on pergolide several years now with no side effects, I was warned about the 'pergolide veil' where they sometimes lose appetite and appear depressed for a few days (this never happened with my mare)?
Given the cost difference between Pergolide (£66.90) and Prascend (£160) I can imagine the equine version not wanting the human version prescribed.
 
Pergolide was withdrawn from human use, there is still some out there but I imagine supplies will be dwindling. It is now sold as Prascend especially for horses, exactly the same drug but more expensive sadly.

Eta, sorry to hear about your horse op, although I'd take each day as it comes and wait and see, some horses manage fine with spavins and some pain relief, just as an aside mine was 'diagnosed' as having spavins by the vet without x-rays and he wanted her in to inject the joint. Good job we didn't as she'd strained her deep digital tendon instead, so without x-rays there are no guarantees that it is spavin to start with. At that age though I'd put quality of life over quantity.x
 
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Naryafluffy said:
What are the severe side effects?
My mare has been on pergolide several years now with no side effects, I was warned about the 'pergolide veil' where they sometimes lose appetite and appear depressed for a few days (this never happened with my mare)?
Given the cost difference between Pergolide (£66.90) and Prascend (£160) I can imagine the equine version not wanting the human version prescribed.
Click to expand...

The vet did say that they are no longer able to give out pergolide but then said I could get my pony onto it by him prescribing an initial 30 day dose of the lowest strength. Then once he's on it, he is allowed to continue prescribing it. He contradicted himself many times within 5 mins but our vet is very understanding in facing the financial burden and thought of a way he could prescribe me pergolide rather than prascend. He's also happy to provide a prescription so I can buy it elsewhere.
 
Just to say that my cob had a bone spavin at 12, had a small op then the fusing injections and we have never looked back - he is now 22! Of course, every horse is different and you have the hard job of a decision, but just to let you know that the spavin could have a good result.
 
Sophstar said:
I know deep down that to put a pony through a predicted cold winter with constant pain and then to hit spring where he suffers awful pollen allergies and becomes unrideable for most of the summer, is not a future I want to give him.
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It sounds as if your cob is already very uncomfortable, & with your vets help you have assessed his situation in a realistic & compassionate manner. Each horse is different, & while there are some lovely sucess stories in this thread, it sounds to me as if you know your horse & that in your heart you know what to do in his best interests.
 
lhotse said:
As for the spavins, if they can be managed with bute, then I don't see it as a death sentence to be honest. My mare was diagnosed at 17, and I continued to ride her till she was 23, no injections, no bute, just a joint suppliment (mobifor).Spavins will fuse on their own in most cases, and the key is to keep riding them, making them confortable with painkillers if they need it. Vets are keen to push expensive treatments these days.
So please don't be too down in the dumps, it can be managed.
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ditto this - my sisters horse was diagnosed aged 5 - he's 18 now and has been managed with low dose bute on his bad days, and consistently good shoeing.

He competed SJ up to 1m30, eventing to 1m, hunting etc until 3 years ago (my sister went to uni) and now he hacks out, has a bit of fun doing the odd schooling day, beach ride, hunter trial etc and generally enjoys life.

He had injections in April to help with some residual stiffness/soreness that was not being helped by his bute, and actually he's better now than he was this time last year. who knows how long it will last, but it's allowing him to be ridden out without bute again in the mean time.

please don't give up if you feel he's not ready to. But equally, if he is ready to, don't beat yourself up for making a decision that is right for him, and that is, ultimately, the last kindness you can do a much loved companion.
 
I had a similar vet visit last November. I had a pre winter MOT done on my older boy and discovered he has a heart murmur. As you can imagine I was devastated and cried for several days however at this point I had only had him on loan since the previous May so it was obvious this was something that had been with him for a while. The vet said that if I was only hacking him lightly- which I do- then he was ok to still be ridden. I know how you feel and I am sending you big hugs. My husband was away last year when I got this devastating news and I had no one to talk to. Sending you big hugs.xx
 
My gelding had serious arthritis. He lived happily on bute for the last few months. In fact in June I was still hacking him out. Around the beginning of September he got far worse, to the point where the bute wasn't doing a thing. I would have had to give him an elephant dose to make him comfortable. On Friday night three weeks ago, I phoned the vet to come out - the only vet I trust, knowing what she would say. He was PTS there and then, and I knew without doubt that it was the best decision I could make for him. As the vet said, he was telling me that it was his time and he was tired. Devastating for me, but no more pain for him. I suppose what I'm trying to say, is give him the bute for as long as it works, but one day you will look at him and you will know that he's had enough. Only you will know that because you know him so well, but he will tell you in his own way. If you can keep him comfortable then do it with the bute for as long as it works. x
 
Hey there sorry to hear your bad news. Arthritis does not have to be a death sentence and long term bute / danilon for pain relief does not have to be something to be scared of IF it works and keeps a horse comfortable. My boy was diagnosed with hock arthritis aged 12 and after trying tildren, which didn't work he spent several years on a low dose of bute which allowed him to still be ridden and at one time he was doing pretty much everything (hacking, schooling , popping small jumps) that he'd been doing before very happily. Last year he came off the bute as a trial (well ok he decided he was going to turn his nose up at hard feed for a few weeks!) and apart from the odd day and for a few injuries he's been managing fine just with a joint supplement. Obviously you do need to take his other issues into account and each horse is an individual and I'm sure that you will think things through from all angles and come to the decision that is going to be best for him, whatever that may be.

With regards to the peroglide / prascend thing; as prascend is the version that is licensed for horses the law states that's what should be prescribed. I'm guessing the way your vet is trying to get around it is by starting on a smaller dose than would be able to be achieved with prascend, thus technically not breaking the law as the dose he is prescribing would not be achievable with the licensed medication. http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Compendium/Overview/-45043.html - for anyone interested to know WHY they are paying a small fortune for animal specific medication.
 
Don't write your horse off yet. I kept my old girl going very happily on (in the early stages) Rhus tox (Homeopathic) and then 5 years on Danilon. She did really well, was kept out 24/7 so she could move around, warmly rugged and loads of linseed. In the end she died of a totally unrelated cause.

I'm so sorry you've been faced with this stark diagnosis. But sleep on it and think in the clear light of tomorrow morning. You may be able to do things which won't break the bank and keep your poppet going.
 
Boulty said:
Hey there sorry to hear your bad news. Arthritis does not have to be a death sentence and long term bute / danilon for pain relief does not have to be something to be scared of IF it works and keeps a horse comfortable. My boy was diagnosed with hock arthritis aged 12 and after trying tildren, which didn't work he spent several years on a low dose of bute which allowed him to still be ridden and at one time he was doing pretty much everything (hacking, schooling , popping small jumps) that he'd been doing before very happily. Last year he came off the bute as a trial (well ok he decided he was going to turn his nose up at hard feed for a few weeks!) and apart from the odd day and for a few injuries he's been managing fine just with a joint supplement. Obviously you do need to take his other issues into account and each horse is an individual and I'm sure that you will think things through from all angles and come to the decision that is going to be best for him, whatever that may be.

With regards to the peroglide / prascend thing; as prascend is the version that is licensed for horses the law states that's what should be prescribed. I'm guessing the way your vet is trying to get around it is by starting on a smaller dose than would be able to be achieved with prascend, thus technically not breaking the law as the dose he is prescribing would not be achievable with the licensed medication. http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Compendium/Overview/-45043.html - for anyone interested to know WHY they are paying a small fortune for animal specific medication.
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That's how he got me onto pergolide then! We both agreed that the 250mg tablet of pergolide will probably not put his levels back to normal and he is having another blood test in 2 weeks to assess but once he has got me onto it, he can continue prescribing it and adjust levels accordingly:) My cob has gone out in his new bioflow boots to see if these help with his discomfort as he's currently not a happy bunny:( Not helped by the fact that he can smell bute despite being covered in every tasty topping possible! He is now lame in walk and I know when he's sore when he won't move towards his feed bucket as it involves moving his sore leg and expects you to bring it to him.
 
Sorry to hear that. I see nothing wrong with giving some Danilon to make them comfy. My mare has spavins and now has back problems, I refuse to have her hocks medicated again and in winter she has a sachet of Danilon each day and manages perfectly well living out. It's really not the end of the world, Danilon is affordable - in fact it works out cheaper than cortaflex and does a better job regarding pain relief! Just like me popping Ibuprofen for my aches and pains!
 
i just wanted to throw another option in the midst if you aren't keen on the injections, accupuncture. a horse on the same yard as mine had the injections (arthritis) and the owner was told he would need the injections again probably about 6 months down the line, she looked into accupuncture and went with that as well and basically her horse was fine for 8 months longer than expected.

i know for some it might not work but it may also be worth a try or asking about it.
 
I have not read any of the replies - but you know youself what to do - take no notice of any pressure from any source, be it here, or in the real world.

You and you alone will know what to do, and if your heart and mind is open your horse will tell you what to do.

good luck and god bless in whatever you decied

gw
x
 
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