The Virgin Daughters

I am !!
I didn't quite no what I was expecting when I switched over , its is quite odd though
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Its a terrible sort of religious indoctrination. I (personally) can not see how they can teach their children to be like this, I can understand the black single father was trying to say he just wants to protect his kids from things but how can they realistically think keeping them in this bubble will protect them from harm or hurt?
 
I tried to keep an open mind but the way the parents were really 'staring' at their kids as they were being asked questions said it all to me - very strange. But I must say the kids seemed like model children - really polite and articulate (not like my grunting thugs !) So they must be doing something right perhaps?
I noticed too that none of the fathers were on their first relationships nor had they 'saved themselves' in the past as being preached??
One thing though (before I run and hide) . . the fathers all seemed a bit too 'touchy feely / whispering sweet nothings' with those little girls and it made me feel uncomfortable . . . or perhaps I'm too cynical ???
 
What that is supposed to mean is that the minute someone does something countercultural, the whole flock of sheep goes 'weird' and that's pretty much it.
The fact that they may save themselves a lot of heartbreak, not to mention disease, passes you by, and because they don't hold to the current view that promiscuity is normal, they are 'weird'.
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sorry my computer has taken to sending things off its own bat!

How can protecting people save them from harm? Erm ..that's what protecting means!

I don't say that every family in this movement is A1 perfect, but I know a fair few, and they are by and large very happy, contented people with a real faith, and true conviction.

It always makes me smile when people jump up and down and say 'oh they're being indoctrinated'! Wake up and smell the coffee! You're ALL being indoctrinated !!! State schools turn out nice little units of production, spouting the government line.

What I did think was very twisted (and typical of that style of documentary) was that the one nay-sayer they featured was a bit of a fake, really wasn't she? Her parents had paid lip service to the purity movement, but had no way given her the support and encouragement of the other families featured, otherwise, she wouldn't have been in a position to get pregnant.

Lesson I think is, whatever path you choose with your family, stick to it and do it properly - counter cultural lifestyles require absolute commitment. Half measures are a bit disastrous.
 
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I tried to keep an open mind but the way the parents were really 'staring' at their kids as they were being asked questions said it all to me - very strange. But I must say the kids seemed like model children - really polite and articulate (not like my grunting thugs !) So they must be doing something right perhaps?
I noticed too that none of the fathers were on their first relationships nor had they 'saved themselves' in the past as being preached??
One thing though (before I run and hide) . . the fathers all seemed a bit too 'touchy feely / whispering sweet nothings' with those little girls and it made me feel uncomfortable . . . or perhaps I'm too cynical ???

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wonkey ( I hope you don't mind my calling you wonkey??!!) - you may be right in the odd case. The families I know personally, no there is definitely nothing odd going on - what it is is the belief that if the fathers treat their daughters like treasure, then they will settle for nothing less as a husband.
If you think about it, children of violent parents, often choose violent partners, and so on. So one way of ensuring your daughter will end up valued, loved and adored, is to make sure that's what she comes to expect.
In such families, patriarchy is an important concept - it's a dirty word in the 21st century, but I tend to agree with them. A strong family with a strong leader, setting a good example, is a good thing.
 
No, wonkey is just fine skewbald !!
I agree with you in part but you are comparing one extream to another ie violent parents and promiscuious behaviour (sp) . I think most people (not sheep may I add) would prefer somewhere in the middle and to give our children good guidance BUT choices too .
IMO this will also ensure our daughters grow up 'valued, loved and adored'.
 
Didn't really mean to compare extremes, just meaning it's more obvious in an extreme case, that children tend to replicate what they have known, and that is the basis for this ideology.
Completely agree that nearly all parents do what ever they believe is best for their children, and I'm sure most want their daughters to grow up that way.
However, the popular way is far from infallible, not that I'm suggesting this way isn't - I can just see it as a valid option. And I do think the immediate bleating of 'weird' (not by you) *is* sheep like.
Most girls I know in these families do have choices, but they choose the security of a loving family and the guidance of their father over the alternative. Just as you are suggesting in your model. They choose the way their family recommends over an alternative which their parents believe is less good - isn't that what we'd all like? They make that commitment just as they make their commitment of faith, voluntarily, but with the huge encouragement and support of their families. It may be countercultural, but it isn't harmful.
I think this country is currently in the grip of a wave of anti religious feeling which is not in the least open minded. It boils down to 'I believe in freedom of thought as long as you feel free to think the same as me.'
If they'd decided to remain pure because it would get them on tv, earn them a million bucks and make them celebrities, I suspect they would get more admiration.
 
As someone who grew up without a father and with other caregivers that had no interest in me whatsoever, I would have given anything to have a close and loving relationship with a father like these girls have. I didn't think it was pervy or particularly domineering - the just had fathers that loved them. They have the choice to have sex whenever they want once they are old enough, and although I don't necessarily think waiting is correct for everyone it will be correct for some. Each to their own really but I think there is not enough love in this world, not too much.
 
I have been very busy over that past few days and wanted to take the time to construct an appropriate response to your replies, so here goes...

"What that is supposed to mean is that the minute someone does something countercultural, the whole flock of sheep goes 'weird' and that's pretty much it."

Firstly, you do not know my background, education, religious upbringing or beliefs etc. therefore I do not feel it is justified to refer to me or my posts as sheep like. (if this was not directed at me then disregard)

"The fact that they may save themselves a lot of heartbreak, not to mention disease, passes you by, and because they don't hold to the current view that promiscuity is normal, they are 'weird'."

Again I must highlight that you know nothing of my views on such topics, so please do not assume that I would rather teenage girls were going about being promiscous. The only way they can be saved from heartbreak is to live in a small padded room all your live. As horrid and unpleasant as it maybe, heartbreak is something we all experience at some point in our lives, and personally I'm am in the school of thought, whereby we learn and grow from both the good and the bad...that is how we become well rounded individuals.

Also, it would help if I had data to hand but I don't, my point is the rates of STI are higher in the bible belt of American particularly within the states where promise rings and purity movements are prominent. So no I do not think this protects them from disease, only correct education about sex can do that!

"How can protecting people save them from harm? Erm ..that's what protecting means!"

We shall have to agree to disagree here, I do not think that was protection.

"It always makes me smile when people jump up and down and say 'oh they're being indoctrinated'! Wake up and smell the coffee! You're ALL being indoctrinated !!! State schools turn out nice little units of production, spouting the government line."

As far as I am aware I spout no such government lines, thank you. If you wish to know where my opinions come from then I shall gladly say that it is not a place of ignorance, I am not merely jumping on any bandwagon that shouts "they are different, they must be wrong"! Though I'm glad I made you smile. For the record, to indocrinate means "teach to accept a particular belief uncritically" which I (personally) think was the case in the documentary, children in most religions are indoctrinated at that age because they simply do not have the capacity to question.

"What I did think was very twisted (and typical of that style of documentary) was that the one nay-sayer they featured was a bit of a fake, really wasn't she? Her parents had paid lip service to the purity movement, but had no way given her the support and encouragement of the other families featured, otherwise, she wouldn't have been in a position to get pregnant."

Yes as you say when watching any documentary you should take heed and remember who the creators are, as they are inevietably trying to distort the full picture. But I do not think there was any evidence for the bases of the claim that her parents did not offer sufficient support and encouragement to their daughter. She herself said she had a wonderful childhood, so how can one assume that her parents were any less supporting than those featured in the documentary?

"I do think the immediate bleating of 'weird' (not by you) *is* sheep like.
"

I admit I was hoping for a little more depth in the discussion, rather than one word retorts. Which is why I'm glad your good self has appeared! But it's not fair to label people as sheep based on their one word response, after all we do not know the background responsible for the reply. For all we know the people that posted "weird" could be ex-members of such communities and be speaking from a wealth of knowledge!

"Most girls I know in these families do have choices, but they choose the security of a loving family and the guidance of their father over the alternative... They choose the way their family recommends over an alternative which their parents believe is less good."

Its good to hear the ones you know have the choice, but some of the girls in the programme were under 10, are you telling me that at the age of ten you had the knowledge and understanding to choose a path that differed from the one shown by your parents?

"I think this country is currently in the grip of a wave of anti religious feeling which is not in the least open minded. It boils down to 'I believe in freedom of thought as long as you feel free to think the same as me.'"

Sadly, I must agree with you there. In the light of recent years religion is getting ever more critical press, and perhaps unfairly in most cases. We should be able to celebrate diversity and embrace different ideals.

I have very much enjoyed reading your posts and I'm sad that it has taken me so long to get around to replying as I think I have now lost the point somewhat, I know I wanted to say so much more but have forgotten half of it!!

SERIOUSLY BIG COOKIES IF YOU READ ALL OF THE ABOVE!
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