The worst decision

Chippers1

Chippers1

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I haven't posted much but I was looking for recommendations or people's experiences with PTS as I think I'm going to have to be making this decision soon :(.

My elderly pony has been on off lame for a long time with low grade laminitis, however he doesn't go out on grass - is turned out during the day into a sand pen and is in at night - so I can't work out how he is getting it and he's been in the same routine (lami free) for the past 7 years so you can see why it is getting confusing! Up until last summer he had no laminitis then he came down with it and since then he has not really been right. He's also got quite a few melanomas.

My sticking point is that he is still so cheery, he's bright and alert and greets me every time I step on the yard, he never looks miserable and defeated and for selfish reasons I can't bear to have him not around but I know I should be responsible and do what's right for him as his quality of life is decresing.

So my question is, what is the best method? I've seen online that there are cremation services that use the free bullet pistol system then cremate for you or is the injection better? Does anyone have any recommendations for cremation services? I'm in Nottinghamshire.

This is the hardest decision I've ever had to make and I'd just like some options to start planning :(
 
I've had numerous PTS by injection over the years and never had an adverse reaction, but I do know they happen. Not sure what the stats show as the likelihood, your vet might know. For me, captive bolt or even shooting is just too violent but that's personal preference. I suspect you will get advocates of both on here which won't help with your decision, but for me it is injection every time - that does mean you have to cremate. When they are shot the carcase can be used for hounds, which is a lot cheaper, I don't know if cost is a factor. YOur vet will know someone who cremates, or there are people licensed to destroy and remove, again, ask your vet
 
I am so sorry you are having to go through this, and in my experience when you suspect it is time, then it is time.

Both methods are usually successful, but sadly with either method occasionally there are problems. I always ensure an experienced person for mine, and ensure they have all the equipment they would need to PTS 6 horses, never mind one.

Anecdotally my belief is that for a fit and otherwise healthy horse (such as one with a leg injury) an injection *may* be best. For a failing, aged horse with a reduced circulation then the gun *may* be the best as the circulatory system may not be able to get the drug round efficiently if you inject.

I would contact the vet or hunt and discuss the options.
 
Thank you for the replies, I forgot to mention he's arthritic too so I'm stuck between getting him moving for that and not moving for laminitis.

I will give my vet a call too. Cost isn't a factor, I just am undecided as I've heard horror stories from both methods and it's such a difficult decision in the first place. Poor old pony.
 
Have you tested for both Cushings and ems? This time last year I was in a similar position with my Shetland, he was taken off grass completely but still sore and not improving, though still his cheeky self, I decided to have all the tests just for peace of mind as I honestly though it was the end.. he came back negative for cushings but on his ems test he came back with >0.5 adiponectin levels! He’s been on metformin since last year, he’s been able to turn out every day and I’ve even purchased him a new driving harness as we’re doing so much now.
 
Yes he's been tested for both and has EMS, this has been managed with diet and keeping off the grass for the last 7 years which suited him perfectly. Metformin didn't have much of an effect on him (plus he didn't like eating them!)
The cushings test came back negative and he's never had any cushings symptoms either. He's got the most enormous melanoma on his tail head and I can't help thinking that maybe that might be having an effect (who knows?!) As it's grown considerably over the last few years.
 
Do whatever you feel comfortable with. It's the logistics more than the actual deed which is difficult to sort. So, "removal" - if using a vet this needs to be considered. If collected for cremation, do you want the ashes back (and this is always a big box) or not. Tying up 2 different professionals needs to be considered. Your vet might not give you an option either so think of that. I had one PTS by injection and that was peaceful and 2 others were shot. These 3 were my horses of a lifetime ( I have had horses from a very very long time!) so there was a whole mourning and grieving process to address as well - and I haven't really come to terms with last one.

Best advice, work out practicalities (how, removal, where, and who wil be with the horse). Do it, plan it, and then see how you can enjoy the last days with your boy before he has to go.
 
BHS offer a "friends at the end" service which might help. Volunteers are local so may know more about the options available to you. And it is someone to talk things through with who has experience.
 
I've heard horror stories from both types of Euthanasia.

For the injection, there are two methods that I know of. First option is with a very young, very sick or very old horse they usually use one injection and they just drop. Second option is if you have a horse that is quite fit and healthy they use two injections, first one to get the horse to lie down, second one is the overdose used to euthenise.

My last mare was done by injection, as she was young and fit she had the two injection method. It was still over and done with in less than a minute.

I've held a few older horses for the injection and again it has always been very quick, one injection and they just drop.

But, you need to go with what you feel comfortable with.

One piece of advice I will give you is that when whoever you have arranged to come and take your horse away arrives, walk away, be no where in sight and turn the radio up loud or just leave the yard. It isn't an elegant process.

I feel for you, it was one of the hardest decisions I had to make *huge hugs*
 
I really feel for you.
Last year I made the same decision for my 20yo favourite horse. He had cushings and was mildly arthritic and mildly dust allergic. He had reached the point where the cushings wasn't controlled and he was on/off sub laminitis and abcessing. He stiffened up and coughed up gunk when in, lost weight when kept off grass. It had reached the point when despite him still having his cheeky sparkle, his quality of life was going downhill and would never improve. I was obviously very upset but I haven't once regretted the decision.

As for method that is very personal. You will hear bad examples of both, but truth is they are rare and either method usually goes without complication. I'd say go with your gut and don't read the internet stories.
 
Ihatework your horse sounds similar, he's also just got over an abscess which I've never had to deal with before.

I'm struggling with the guilt too, even though he doesn't know. That's a good idea about the BHS I'll contact them. Thank you for all your replies.

Yes I've seen the van that our yard normally uses and it's not pleasant so I wouldn't be hanging around :(
 
It is a difficult time, even when it seems clear that there is no alternative. IMO quality of life has to take precedence over quantity.
I prefer to have my horses shot, it is instant and the horse knows absolutely nothing about it, goig down with a mouthful of food.. I have had two pts by injection as the vet was there after an illness but although nothing went catastrophically wrong, it certainly wasn't instant.
Whichever method you choose, as someone else said, DO NOT stay for the removal, the body has to be winched onto the vehicle and you really don't want that to be your last memory of your horse.
 
Chippers1 said:
I haven't posted much but I was looking for recommendations or people's experiences with PTS as I think I'm going to have to be making this decision soon :(.

My elderly pony has been on off lame for a long time with low grade laminitis, however he doesn't go out on grass - is turned out during the day into a sand pen and is in at night - so I can't work out how he is getting it and he's been in the same routine (lami free) for the past 7 years so you can see why it is getting confusing! Up until last summer he had no laminitis then he came down with it and since then he has not really been right. He's also got quite a few melanomas.

My sticking point is that he is still so cheery, he's bright and alert and greets me every time I step on the yard, he never looks miserable and defeated and for selfish reasons I can't bear to have him not around but I know I should be responsible and do what's right for him as his quality of life is decresing.

So my question is, what is the best method? I've seen online that there are cremation services that use the free bullet pistol system then cremate for you or is the injection better? Does anyone have any recommendations for cremation services? I'm in Nottinghamshire.

This is the hardest decision I've ever had to make and I'd just like some options to start planning :(
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have a look on the http://appcc.org.uk/website - I prefer the injection.
 
I had my horse pts 5 months ago by injection. He was injected with sedative then the injection that stops the heart. He went very quickly and peacefully. I had kind of known it was coming for about a month so had planned how and where he would go. There was patch of grass near his field that he always tried pulling me towards so that was where he went. On the day both the vet and the disposal company were brilliant. As others have said, say your goodbyes and walk away.
 
Whichever way youj go for, please don't be there yourself. Both are horrible to watch simply that it is a large animal going from standing to not.
I hold my friends horses to be done and my husbands hold mine. TBH the professional may well be better off on their own if he is a good, well behaved pony.
I would have him shot, and get a very experienced knackerman to do it - not a vet or a new huntsman.
If you are in Essex - unlikely I know - Martins are very professional or if you prefer cremation and ashes back there is a pet crem place down near Moreton.
 
I had to make this decision twice last year, both were bright and cheery as you describe yours, but both had ongoing chronic lameness issues and it would have been selfish for me to have kept them going. They both went with injection, and both went without issue.

I'm not sure where you are located, but North East Fallen Stock Company are more affordable than some others for collection, they process to biofuels rather than cremate. This is where Jazz went, it was organised by my vet, it was a Saturday so we didn't have much choice in the matter, we had to go with who was close by so I and other liveries on the yard wouldn't have to keep walking past him. There wagons are clean (I had to go past it on my way off the yard), and the livery who passed on payment said the driver was really courteous.

So sorry you're having to make this decision, a year on and I'm still tearing up writing this. It really is the worst decision.
 
Don't have any personal experience of this sorry but sure there are horror stories for every possible thing you'll ever need to agonise whether it's for a horse, dog or human. When I've had dogs PTS my sole concern is with them being as relaxed, comfortable and knowing as little as possible about what's going on. Had my Springer PTS very suddenly after rushing her to vets and first thing I asked was for her to be given a sedative cos I knew she was knackered. Wanted her nice and drowsy and half asleep when they gave her the final shot. Vet nurse looked at me funny and said “It's an overdose of sedative we give there's no point paying for two lots” and I fired back it was my money and I wanted her calm and relaxed when it happened instead of her stressing over being in the vets to start with and knowing an injection was going into her leg then dropping in a heap.

Few days later a friend that lives in Bulgaria needed to have her dog put to sleep but they don't have vets do it by injection it's a shotgun job :( I cannot even begin to imagine what that must have been like and if truth be told don't think I'd have had it in me to be there when it happened which would equally break my heart because it'd feel like I'd skipped out on doing the right thing and seeing him through to the end.

Vet once told me that despite it looking and seeming horrific, the bolt / shooting method remains the quickest, most effective and most humane method but again – seeing that must be horrific.

I'd talk to the vet and look into having the horse sedated and nicely relaxed or preferably asleep before whatever final method takes place. That way you can at least be with him whilst he drops off to sleep and then go if you can't bring yourself to be there when it happens.
 
for me I stay till they past, cuddling them and spending my last moments smelling them to remember them. The only one I wasn't there for was at RVC and they would not let me. I will NEVER watch them being pulled into the trailer to go off to the crem though that would be a NONO for me.
 
ILuvCowparsely said:
for me I stay till they past, cuddling them and spending my last moments smelling them to remember them. The only one I wasn't there for was at RVC and they would not let me. I will NEVER watch them being pulled into the trailer to go off to the crem though that would be a NONO for me.
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No I couldn't handle that either. Do vets not discourage owners from staying and seeing their horse being moved afterwards like that? God in Heaven that would be brutal :(
 
vmac66 said:
I had my horse pts 5 months ago by injection. He was injected with sedative then the injection that stops the heart. He went very quickly and peacefully. I had kind of known it was coming for about a month so had planned how and where he would go. There was patch of grass near his field that he always tried pulling me towards so that was where he went. On the day both the vet and the disposal company were brilliant. As others have said, say your goodbyes and walk away.
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That genuinely made my eyes fill up and I'm a hard-faced soulless witch as a rule :( How nice that he went to sleep in his favourite spot with you though. That's the way to do things if you have the option I think :)
 
Just to be clear, seeing the horse shot is not horrific. The knackerman (or whoever) knows exactly what he is doing, our local Equine Crem brings a bucket of sugary feed, although we always have a bucket ready. He (sometimes it is a woman) talks to the horse, giving a scratch along with the bucket, when the horse is nice and relaxed, eating the food, the gun is placed in the right position, touching the horse's forehead and the job is done. Yes, there is a bang but it isn't that loud. The horse drops instantly. As with the injection, there can be reflex movement after the heart has stopped.

It isn't a pleasant experience because it is a decision that horse-owners don't want to have to make but it is one that has to be made if , like us and OP, you keep your horses for life.

Thinking of you at this difficult time, OP.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Just to be clear, seeing the horse shot is not horrific. The knackerman (or whoever) knows exactly what he is doing, our local Equine Crem brings a bucket of sugary feed, although we always have a bucket ready. He (sometimes it is a woman) talks to the horse, giving a scratch along with the bucket, when the horse is nice and relaxed, eating the food, the gun is placed in the right position, touching the horse's forehead and the job is done. Yes, there is a bang but it isn't that loud. The horse drops instantly. As with the injection, there can be reflex movement after the heart has stopped.

It isn't a pleasant experience because it is a decision that horse-owners don't want to have to make but it is one that has to be made if , like us and OP, you keep your horses for life.

Thinking of you at this difficult time, OP.
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That's good to know actually. Sure the guys (or gals) that do it are very good with the horses and know exactly what they're doing and even knowing it's a quick painless job I'd find it too much seeing it with my own I think. Would offer to be there with a friend's horse or dog for them and it wouldn't bother me at all but with my own I'd struggle.

When my friend told me about her dog being put to sleep with the farmer's shotgun it broke my heart. She described a very similar scenario in that he was lovely and friendly and spent time stroking and petting and talking to the dog then just did it quick as a flash without him having any idea but I just kept trying to imagine what it must have been like to stand back and see. Incredibly brave.

The worst thing about owning animals is this bit :(
 
I had my mare pts by injection in March due to Cushings induced laminitis. It was very quick and humane. The vet was brilliant and sorted it all out for me. I stayed with her until the end and then for a bit afterwards. It was all very calm. I didn't watch her getting loaded to be cremated.
 
Parly said:
That's good to know actually. Sure the guys (or gals) that do it are very good with the horses and know exactly what they're doing and even knowing it's a quick painless job I'd find it too much seeing it with my own I think. Would offer to be there with a friend's horse or dog for them and it wouldn't bother me at all but with my own I'd struggle.

When my friend told me about her dog being put to sleep with the farmer's shotgun it broke my heart. She described a very similar scenario in that he was lovely and friendly and spent time stroking and petting and talking to the dog then just did it quick as a flash without him having any idea but I just kept trying to imagine what it must have been like to stand back and see. Incredibly brave.

The worst thing about owning animals is this bit :(
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Indeed it is and even if you don't keep them into old age,it is something you may have to face. I have had to pts 3 younger horses and lost a foal.
I think part of the problem with imagining pts by gun is that we think of Wild West films, where rifles are used from a distance and there is a great deal of red paint/tomato sauce used for effect.
Fortunately pts by gun is nothing like that.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Indeed it is and even if you don't keep them into old age,it is something you may have to face. I have had to pts 3 younger horses and lost a foal.
I think part of the problem with imagining pts by gun is that we think of Wild West films, where rifles are used from a distance and there is a great deal of red paint/tomato sauce used for effect.
Fortunately pts by gun is nothing like that.
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Do you know what I imagine would be the worst? The sound. I have in my mind the sound a shotgun being fired and it echoing and scaring birds which I'm sure doesn't happen with horses but with my friend's dog it would have been.

It's always worse for us because we're left with it but I really hope OP is able to see her friend drop off peacefully and know it's all OK.
 
And it's rarely as we scare ourselves to death imagining isn't it? When I had my Springer PTS I was braced for her letting out gasps and all the stuff that happens afterwards and dreading it the whole time. Thinking "Please don't struggle Cass... just go to sleep please don't twitch and gasp and leave that with me just go to sleep" and she literally made one tiny little puff sound from her cheeks and that was it :)
 
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