The worst has happened.

ThePinkPony said:
Oh for gods sake... When will people realise that 99.9% or the time ITS NOT YOUR DOG YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT and even if it isnt A DOG IS STILL UNPREDICTABLE AND HAS THE CAPACITY TO TURN AT ANY MINUTE!!! if i were you bonny i would hope that one day a really annoying little kid doesnt push your dog a bit too far :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

i personally think thats the biggest load of BS going bonny. even in the wild with wolf behavious they only roam because they have to to source food. if you chuck a deer carcass at a pack of wolves every day they will seldon ''roam'' futher than a few hundred yards.
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There are no annoying little kids here ! It's not my farm but there are sheep in all the fields and in 20 years of living here and having many people and dogs coming and going there has never been a problem. Most dogs here are never walked but simply wander around outside, mine included, they all get on ....as I say no one has a secure garden and it's never been a problem.
 
bonny said:
There are no annoying little kids here ! It's not my farm but there are sheep in all the fields and in 20 years of living here and having many people and dogs coming and going there has never been a problem. Most dogs here are never walked but simply wander around outside, mine included, they all get on ....as I say no one has a secure garden and it's never been a problem.
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It only takes a bitch to come into season for all hell to break loose. How many times have you read the phrase ''its never been a problem'' ''hes never bitten anyone before'' when a small child is mauled to death....

Oh of course, because its only rottwielers and pitbulls that bite people..:rolleyes:
 
bonny said:
There are no annoying little kids here ! It's not my farm but there are sheep in all the fields and in 20 years of living here and having many people and dogs coming and going there has never been a problem. Most dogs here are never walked but simply wander around outside, mine included, they all get on ....as I say no one has a secure garden and it's never been a problem.
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I can only assume you live in an isolated commune or something because anyone who lives around others in most environments has to be very careful monitoring their dogs.

My bullmastiff girl would wander anywhere her nose took her when she first came home but now she is happy to remain in the yard and potters around. However I watch her like a hawk and take nothing for granted, poor girl she doesn't realise she has a stalker :D
 
ThePinkPony said:
It only takes a bitch to come into season for all hell to break loose. How many times have you read the phrase ''its never been a problem'' ''hes never bitten anyone before'' when a small child is mauled to death....

Oh of course, because its only rottwielers and pitbulls that bite people..:rolleyes:
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I realise I'll not be popular for saying so but my dog isn't spayed ....in fact most of the dogs here haven't been done. Maybe because everyone has a relaxed attitude to their dog's they just don't cause any problems.The postman has just been, there were 4 dogs outside, none of them even barked. I can not recall one dog fight, they sort out minor disagreements between them, which is what dogs do and in 20 years no one's dog has ever chased any livestock. Maybe we are just lucky, but I am talking about 20 years and alot of dogs.....
 
bonny said:
I realise I'll not be popular for saying so but my dog isn't spayed ....in fact most of the dogs here haven't been done. Maybe because everyone has a relaxed attitude to their dog's they just don't cause any problems.The postman has just been, there were 4 dogs outside, none of them even barked. I can not recall one dog fight, they sort out minor disagreements between them, which is what dogs do and in 20 years no one's dog has ever chased any livestock. Maybe we are just lucky, but I am talking about 20 years and alot of dogs.....
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So do you restrict the dogs in season then? Or just one big happy puppy producing family?
 
Wow.

Firstly OP so sorry I hope you can sort something out!

East Kent, my uncle is a sheep farmer, and he got a rescue jack russell, in the first winter it killed 2 lambs and 5 hens, we tied one of the dead lambs to it for a short while in the garden, and the same with the last dead hen, its not touched anything since :rolleyes:

Disclaimer, dog was not hurt or distressed during this!
 
jsr said:
So do you restrict the dogs in season then? Or just one big happy puppy producing family?
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Obviously !
Although the dog I have at present isn't a problem at all apart from a few days a year when I just go out with her. Most of the dogs here are bitches, in face they all are bar one GSD next door who is still young and a bit clueless. His owner is planning on having him done when he reaches maturity
 
bonny said:
I realise I'll not be popular for saying so but my dog isn't spayed ....in fact most of the dogs here haven't been done. Maybe because everyone has a relaxed attitude to their dog's they just don't cause any problems.The postman has just been, there were 4 dogs outside, none of them even barked. I can not recall one dog fight, they sort out minor disagreements between them, which is what dogs do and in 20 years no one's dog has ever chased any livestock. Maybe we are just lucky, but I am talking about 20 years and alot of dogs.....
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Sounds as if you live in a wonderful environment. And yes, I do think you've probably been very lucky.....
 
bonny said:
Obviously !
Although the dog I have at present isn't a problem at all apart from a few days a year when I just go out with her. Most of the dogs here are bitches, in face they all are bar one GSD next door who is still young and a bit clueless. His owner is planning on having him done when he reaches maturity
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So it's not exactly doggy utopia and you do have rules for them? So why then is the OP's parents insuring their dogs safety by restricting him to a secure garden anything different from you restricting on heat dogs from mating?
 
To add, around here, the dog would be shot, no questions asked, if a dog was seen in the field (a guy from club had his bitch shot dead last week :() and yes, the farmers are out at all hours, it's their livelihood, especially at this time of the year. It's our responsibility to make sure that it doesn't happen.
We're friendly with our neighbours, the biggest sheep farmers in the area, and we know the score.
I think it varies per area to be honest.
If my dogs were able to roam free, they'd either end up killed on a very busy road or end up full of lead - but, please, no one have the gall to tell me my dogs have no life.

Hope you can find a solution OP, give it a go, you're lucky she is still alive in the first place, she wouldn't be around here.
 
Well the situation is now over, Maddy was put down this afternoon. I went with mum and dad. It is the first time I have seen my dad cry.

Just in case anyone is interested in the happenings of the day, I got some legal advice. Then I spoke to Mum and Dad and it turned out that the legal agreement only covered the financial reimbursements of damages/value of sheep to the farmer, and the request to have her put down within 7 days was just a verbal agreement. They were under absolutely no legal agreement to comply.

So then we talked it out. I could not understand why they were so quick to roll over and give up, and not even going to try to save her.

My mum and dad are getting on in years and they do not feel that they are the right home for the dog. They do not feel that retraining would work, they are sure that no matter how careful they are, that sooner or later she would get out and the same thing would happen/she'd get hit by a car/who knows what. They don't want that kind of responsibility.
So then the options were either to rehome, or to put to sleep.
I wish I could have taken her, I feel sure that she was not a lost cause, that with professional help and strong leadership she could have been kept under control. Unfortunately life with me would be no life. I have two full time jobs and too many horses and we live in a tiny house with a piddling garden. It isn't an option, even though I have spent the last two nights lying awake trying to figure out how it could work.

I got her age wrong in my original post, she is 8 not 6. She was effectively allowed to run wild for the first 4 years of her life, then spent the next 2 passed from home to home (4 homes in total), until my parents eventually took her in as she was going to be destroyed, ironically. This was when they lived in France, she is part Malinois. They have a lot of dog experience, and as kids our dogs were always well trained and obedient. They knew what they were taking on, and we all felt they were up to the challenge. I think I did them a disservice by saying she has no training - she had none when they got her, but they have improved her and she is now mostly obedient. The problem is her escapist tendencies. They had a behaviourist try to help with that but it didn't seem to help.
They are definitely a lot wetter about everything and much more easily defeated than in the past which is so frustrating to watch from the outside. But then they are getting on in years, and my dad fell ill last year and is no longer very mobile - basically they are right, they are not the right home for her. They didn't want her to start that cycle of being passed on and on, and under the circumstances I think they have done the right thing.
They gave Maddie 2 brilliant years of love, stability, great walks and lots of runs (with me). She's gone now, but at least she's not in a rescue centre somewhere.
We are all a bit heartbroken.
 
scatty_mare said:
Well the situation is now over, Maddy was put down this afternoon. I went with mum and dad. It is the first time I have seen my dad cry.

Just in case anyone is interested in the happenings of the day, I got some legal advice. Then I spoke to Mum and Dad and it turned out that the legal agreement only covered the financial reimbursements of damages/value of sheep to the farmer, and the request to have her put down within 7 days was just a verbal agreement. They were under absolutely no legal agreement to comply.

So then we talked it out. I could not understand why they were so quick to roll over and give up, and not even going to try to save her.

My mum and dad are getting on in years and they do not feel that they are the right home for the dog. They do not feel that retraining would work, they are sure that no matter how careful they are, that sooner or later she would get out and the same thing would happen/she'd get hit by a car/who knows what. They don't want that kind of responsibility.
So then the options were either to rehome, or to put to sleep.
I wish I could have taken her, I feel sure that she was not a lost cause, that with professional help and strong leadership she could have been kept under control. Unfortunately life with me would be no life. I have two full time jobs and too many horses and we live in a tiny house with a piddling garden. It isn't an option, even though I have spent the last two nights lying awake trying to figure out how it could work.

I got her age wrong in my original post, she is 8 not 6. She was effectively allowed to run wild for the first 4 years of her life, then spent the next 2 passed from home to home (4 homes in total), until my parents eventually took her in as she was going to be destroyed, ironically. This was when they lived in France, she is part Malinois. They have a lot of dog experience, and as kids our dogs were always well trained and obedient. They knew what they were taking on, and we all felt they were up to the challenge. I think I did them a disservice by saying she has no training - she had none when they got her, but they have improved her and she is now mostly obedient. The problem is her escapist tendencies. They had a behaviourist try to help with that but it didn't seem to help.
They are definitely a lot wetter about everything and much more easily defeated than in the past which is so frustrating to watch from the outside. But then they are getting on in years, and my dad fell ill last year and is no longer very mobile - basically they are right, they are not the right home for her. They didn't want her to start that cycle of being passed on and on, and under the circumstances I think they have done the right thing.
They gave Maddie 2 brilliant years of love, stability, great walks and lots of runs (with me). She's gone now, but at least she's not in a rescue centre somewhere.
We are all a bit heartbroken.
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I'm so sorry for your loss, I can't imagine how you must feel. But I do have to say that I totally disagree with the choice you made, you should have given her a chance. Someone would have wanted her and would have had the time to train her.
 
equestrianabbie said:
I'm so sorry for your loss, I can't imagine how you must feel. But I do have to say that I totally disagree with the choice you made, you should have given her a chance. Someone would have wanted her and would have had the time to train her.
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The worst thing is that in my heart of hearts I agree with you, in a way. However it was not my decision, and I have to respect my parents for doing what they truly believe was the most responsible thing.

Death is not the worst thing that can happen to an animal.
 
I actually think your parents have made the right decision.
She had been passed from pillar to post her whole life and as you say, had two wonderful years of time with your parents.
It's the easiest thing in the world to do, to pass a dog on and make it someone else's issue.
It takes real guts and heart to be responsible.
Until people have a dog 'like that' in their home, no one can judge you or your parents.
Abbie, take a look at rescue centres up and down the country, plenty of people rely on 'someone will want her' - but sadly, most times, they don't :(
 
I didn't necessarily mean rescue centres though, I'm sure if a few ads were put up, word of mouth etc someone would have had the time for this dog. Although I know there's always the risk of the dog being passed from home to home.

I hope she Rests in Peace :) xx
 
So sorry for you and your family.... It's the hardest decision to make, and I totally understand your parents decision in view of the dogs history.
I posted on here last year after my brothers dog bit a teenager in a public place. He had her PTS for a number of reasons that I won't go into on here, but one of those was that he also didn't want to take the risk of her being rehomed multiple times with her history.
As you say, she has known love and stability for 2yrs, and take comfort in knowing that for her it was just like going to sleep for an op, ie knows nothing about it.
You and your parents have my deepest sympathies, it's not an easy decision, and very upsetting for all concerned.
 
CaveCanem said:
I actually think your parents have made the right decision.
She had been passed from pillar to post her whole life and as you say, had two wonderful years of time with your parents.
It's the easiest thing in the world to do, to pass a dog on and make it someone else's issue.
It takes real guts and heart to be responsible.
Until people have a dog 'like that' in their home, no one can judge you or your parents.
Abbie, take a look at rescue centres up and down the country, plenty of people rely on 'someone will want her' - but sadly, most times, they don't :(
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I agree with this, a difficult decision that everybody hopes they'll never have to make themselves. Reading only your first post I would have disagreed but then having read about her background I absolutley think that it sounds like the right decision was reached. She had two wonderful years with your parents and its better this than her being passed on again.
 
Equestrian Abbie, with the best will in the world, would you take on an eight-year-old escape artist which chases livestock? Who are these people who take on dogs like this?
I'm not saying they are not out there, of course they are and some are on this board, but they are not ten a penny.
When there are plenty of dogs with no issues at all on death row in pounds up and down the UK right now, because people got bored of them, and their seven days are up?
There are two oldies on this board, TONIGHT looking for a new home, aged eight and ten. If anyone wants to judge the OP and her parents, why don't they set an example and go pick them up and give THEM a chance - in Maddy's memory, perhaps.
 
CaveCanem said:
Equestrian Abbie, with the best will in the world, would you take on an eight-year-old escape artist which chases livestock? Who are these people who take on dogs like this?
I'm not saying they are not out there, of course they are and some are on this board, but they are not ten a penny.
When there are plenty of dogs with no issues at all on death row in pounds up and down the UK right now, because people got bored of them, and their seven days are up?
There are two oldies on this board, TONIGHT looking for a new home, aged eight and ten. If anyone wants to judge the OP and her parents, why don't they set an example and go pick them up and give THEM a chance - in Maddy's memory, perhaps.
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I definitely see where you're coming from. I truly do feel for the OP, I could never make a decision like that and I know they made the right one for them, so I'm sorry for my judgement.
 
i have just read this post and how sad was it, i completly understand your parents that they dont want her passed from pillar to post, nor would they want her going into a dogs home, for me as an owner i would rather know that he will be running free with the other doggies in heaven than beeing mistreated somewhere or feeling sad and unhappy. i would much rather my dog beeing put to sleep rather than having to constantly worry if he was in the correct home or if he was happy as once you give them up and they leave your home you will never know how they are doing unless they were rehomed to a friend, i think you have made the correct descision :)
 
EA - no worries, no one is wrong or right, I've moved on dogs of my own before now, one for livestock chasing and I just hope my judgement was right - at least Maddy has gone with dignity, unlike a lot of other poor souls.
 
What a sad story. So sorry for you and your family. I too think that your family made the right decision.

I come from sheep country, and have seen a whole field of sheep wiped out by three dogs "who never did anything like that before". I also know someone who had their dog shot for simply wandering through a sheep field. I think that most sheep farmers round here would shoot first, rather than wait.

Perhaps you can retrain a dog that has killed a sheep, probably you can, but it would take a lot of work and its a risk - and for an older couple with an older dog in a rural area, it probably wasn't going to happen.

I'd have hated to think of a rescue dog, that had found a happy home, being put back into rescue in the hope that someone would take on a large, older dog with a bad history - wasn't very likely. Even if she had, she would probably have hated a town life after having a lovely rural home. At least she was loved and loved her life in the end.

Best wishes to you OP, and your parents. Look after them.x
 
Unfortunately it is for the best. Once a dog has killed sheep it will always be inclined to do so though I disagree about them attacking people afterwards.

I have had many dogs come to me for training them to not chase sheep but I will refuse to take on a dog that has actually killed them

A few years ago my neighbours lurcher was seen killing a ewe (not mine) the farmer had already lost two ewes and some lambs before the dog was seen killing another ewe. The dog owners begged and pleaded to be allowed to keep the dog and promised they would not allow it loose and would keep it muzzled. That lasted for a month or two. Odd thing was that the dog never touched the sheep in the fields at the front of the house but attacked min instead.
He killed 14 well grown lambs in one night. Altogether over the course of three years he killed about £3,000 of sheep but I could never catch him. Once when we were bringing the sheep in he brought one down but let go when I hollered at him. It took a while for us to get the sheep back to the buildings and as soon as we had I called the dog owner and she said he had been let out by a workman, he denied the dog had been out at all.

Not long later he attacked some other ewes, killed three and tore the udders out of three others and mauled a couple more. I moved the ewes to the home pasture and a coupe of days later heard them calling the dog. I waited and when he appeared he trotted up the fence line, when the ewes started to flock up he went into attack and I shot him.
I was well within my legal rights - I took not an iota of pleasure in doing it but, it had to be done.
 
Totally agree with what CC has said.

equestrianabbie said:
I didn't necessarily mean rescue centres though, I'm sure if a few ads were put up, word of mouth etc someone would have had the time for this dog. Although I know there's always the risk of the dog being passed from home to home.

I hope she Rests in Peace :) xx
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So, have you read the post about dogs in free ads ending up as bait dogs for fights then? What has happened here has happened and giving the OP a hard time about it is totally wrong. The dog has not suffered in any way other than previously before she came to their family.

RIP.
 
OP I'm so so sorry for your loss! I hope she sleeps tight! :(



Foxhunter49 said:
Unfortunately it is for the best. Once a dog has killed sheep it will always be inclined to do so though I disagree about them attacking people afterwards.

I have had many dogs come to me for training them to not chase sheep but I will refuse to take on a dog that has actually killed them

A few years ago my neighbours lurcher was seen killing a ewe (not mine) the farmer had already lost two ewes and some lambs before the dog was seen killing another ewe. The dog owners begged and pleaded to be allowed to keep the dog and promised they would not allow it loose and would keep it muzzled. That lasted for a month or two. Odd thing was that the dog never touched the sheep in the fields at the front of the house but attacked min instead.
He killed 14 well grown lambs in one night. Altogether over the course of three years he killed about £3,000 of sheep but I could never catch him. Once when we were bringing the sheep in he brought one down but let go when I hollered at him. It took a while for us to get the sheep back to the buildings and as soon as we had I called the dog owner and she said he had been let out by a workman, he denied the dog had been out at all.

Not long later he attacked some other ewes, killed three and tore the udders out of three others and mauled a couple more. I moved the ewes to the home pasture and a coupe of days later heard them calling the dog. I waited and when he appeared he trotted up the fence line, when the ewes started to flock up he went into attack and I shot him.
I was well within my legal rights - I took not an iota of pleasure in doing it but, it had to be done.
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I think I'd have shot the owner too :rolleyes:
 
So sorry to hear this, but I too think your parents did the right thing. I made a similar decision with a GSD bitch we took on who had been through several homes due to her temperament. We battled for 2 years but in the end she was pts.
It sounds as if the OPs had given Maddy a good 2 years , as said above it is not that easy to rehome dogs, particularly ones with problems, there are many dogs in rescues where it states that they need to go to a home away from sheep as they have killed them. I suspect they will stay in rescue a long time. Maddy it seems was part Malinois, imo one of the hardest working breeds there is, (they're not known as Malligators for nothing), so a challenge for someone young and fit never mind getting on a bit.
Maybe when your parents feel able they could offer a home to a gentle oldie, there are so many crying out for homes.
 
What an awful situation.
My dog is an escape artist and despite a 6ft6 fence with electric running along the top, I won't ever let her out of my sight in the garden. I walk her daily in fields and forests on a long line and she has a good life. She too came to us as an older dog, a rescue. Her recall is 95% excellent, but that's not good enough for me to risk her life. I could never pass her on, so I really feel for the OP :(.
 
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