TheBadger Cull, Brian May & the RSPCA.....

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Alec Swan

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So now it seems that May has been selling the rights to kill deer on his Dorset, or Devon Estate, whilst being opposed to a management plan for badgers. I wonder if I'm alone in finding his hypocrisy, as surprising as his stupidity.

By all accounts he has responded by claiming that people are trying to discredit him, and the rspca. No s*** Sherlock.

It's the blue rinse that's done it, it's addled his brain! Perhaps it's yet to occur to him that not everyone who lives a rural existence lives on turnips and chews straw.

Alec.
 
That smacks of hypocrisy. Let's hope the Daily Fail gets hold of the story rather than the CA which is only read by the intelligentsia :p
 
I know that owns some land which is farmed by a local huntsman, and some woodland which is managed by the fountain forsetry who use stalking as part of their deer management!
 
As usual double standards bet he like Paul McCartney have used illegal drugs in their time, were having a TB test next month what joy, cattle looking forward to it, love those who don't make a living from farming telling us what to do!
 
Some journalist commented on it in the Evening Standard and was saying why can't one be for culling one species but against killing another. He was in favour of culling wasps but against culling blue whales so does that make him a hypocrite?

Comparing wasps to whales isn't really the same as comparing deer to badgers now is it?! What an idiot.
 
Only things deer damage are plants whereas badgers are vicious animals apart from disease they carry and apart from man have no predators.
 
Hes not the first or the last person to sell the stalking rights on his estates and I can't see why he can't still have a thing for badgers. Two different species and two different managements types. I'm not in favour of a complete cull for badgers I rather like them but i do and have stalked, happy to do so because one is for the table and one would be deemed vermin.

I do feel for cattle farmers but I'm not convinced the science backs up the theory when it comes to TB. Not when a % size reaction is the guide for a positive or negative test result. The test is not 100% there was some issue supposedly at one point over the test submission used to identify it under achieving.

No idea why this is new news though hes been at it for a while this is from sept 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oenp6m5C1bE BBC one show re badger cull
 
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As an ex-pom who grew up in rural Devon in the 40/50s when TB testing was started I feel the whole badger cull topic is a political ploy....yes, there are so many wild animals that carry tb....like rabbits...can we 'cull' all the rabbit population??? Of course not, not even mixamatosis was able to do that. So attempting to 'cull' all the badgers in the country won't do anything to help reduce the incidence of tb in cattle....so why villify someone who feels strongly about the subject? IMO the best way of going about the problem is to recognise it and attempt to control it. Now it cannot be controlled in the wild animal population and it is unreasonable to expect to be able to eliminate the whole wild animal population - even if that were desirable.....so we need to be able to control it in our domestic herds. I guess that means vaccination? And carrying that one step further, a more difficult problem is foot and mouth.....so perhaps vaccination against that disease as well should be mandatory.....and then we should move on further and see what other diseases are a problem to our national health safety.....
 
Alyth said:
As an ex-pom who grew up in rural Devon in the 40/50s when TB testing was started I feel the whole badger cull topic is a political ploy....yes, there are so many wild animals that carry tb....like rabbits...can we 'cull' all the rabbit population??? Of course not, not even mixamatosis was able to do that. So attempting to 'cull' all the badgers in the country won't do anything to help reduce the incidence of tb in cattle....so why villify someone who feels strongly about the subject? IMO the best way of going about the problem is to recognise it and attempt to control it. Now it cannot be controlled in the wild animal population and it is unreasonable to expect to be able to eliminate the whole wild animal population - even if that were desirable.....so we need to be able to control it in our domestic herds. I guess that means vaccination? And carrying that one step further, a more difficult problem is foot and mouth.....so perhaps vaccination against that disease as well should be mandatory.....and then we should move on further and see what other diseases are a problem to our national health safety.....
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Bla bla yada yada Hmmm...
 
The badgers are culling the ground nesting wasps and bees, digging out and eating all the nest. They are also along with fox, buzzard and mink etc. eating the eggs of most of the ground nesting birds........ we have untill recent years had very good numbers of curlew, sky lark, plover and oyster catchers..... truely this, past year, I have neither seen nor heard any of these birds on this farm here in Aberdeenshire.

Incidentally Badger Haunch is supposed to be very good eating. We see badgers here regularly as we do fox and buzzards etc...... otters have also been seen here on occasion.

We have had newborn calves ears and backends eaten out by badger, Sheep with just their livers eaten out of a small neat hole in the skin..... needless to say these animals have to be pts. if they have not died during their ordeal. Locally poultry huts are regularly raided.

To date we do not have TB., the badger population here must be healthy, but there will shortly be more reasons for a cull than only the presence of TB. Oh and the SSPCA release baders locally after removing them under licence from built up areas where they are damaging buildings and roads by udermining them.
 
horseloaner said:
Hes not the first or the last person to sell the stalking rights on his estates and I can't see why he can't still have a thing for badgers. Two different species and two different managements types. I'm not in favour of a complete cull for badgers I rather like them but i do and have stalked, happy to do so because one is for the table and one would be deemed vermin.

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Two different species, obviously, but where is the management system for badgers? There isn't one, and therein lies the problem. I too have a "thing", as you put it, for badgers. I want to see the population reduced to numbers which are sustainable, reduced so that they no longer come into conflict with man.

I too stalk, and deer have been a passion for the last near 50years. Deer, where they come into conflict with man are managed by controlled shooting. Without that management, the deer become a menace to themselves. They become vermin, and the hand of everyone is against them. Badgers are now considered vermin, by many, and with a reduction in numbers, and a reduction in their disease spreading capabilities, so they will once again be the revered creature that they were previously.

Alyth said:
....... So attempting to 'cull' all the badgers in the country won't do anything to help reduce the incidence of tb in cattle....so why villify someone who feels strongly about the subject?

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Why it is that those who are opposed to the cull, insist on claiming that those who would support it, want every badger killed, is beyond me. It has never been, and would never be the intent of those who are pro cull.

For others to claim that the removal or annihilation of a species is the plan, are simply throwing out red herrings, in an attempt ti filibuster.

Badgers have no natural enemies, except man that is, and by refusing to reduce the numbers, to manageable bounds, (as happens with deer incidentally) so the badgers themselves are being done a disservice.

Brian May is being vilified, because he's set his thought process at a pitch where he wont accept the damage which the over population of badgers is doing, and also refuses to accept that the crippling effect of BTb on those who attempt to earn a living from farming cattle, is bringing many to their knees.

Brian May, who uses his public persona to campaign on a subject which is so damaging and hurtful to those who actually live a rural life, should be ashamed of himself. As a rural landowner, he's a disgrace.

Alec.
 
Alec have you ever considered running for prime minister you would certainly get my vote, and us farmers and real country folk would have a fine spokesman.
 
Alec Swan said:
Two different species, obviously, but where is the management system for badgers? There isn't one, and therein lies the problem. I too have a "thing", as you put it, for badgers. I want to see the population reduced to numbers which are sustainable, reduced so that they no longer come into conflict with man.



Why it is that those who are opposed to the cull, insist on claiming that those who would support it, want every badger killed, is beyond me. It has never been, and would never be the intent of those who are pro cull.

For others to claim that the removal or annihilation of a species is the plan, are simply throwing out red herrings, in an attempt ti filibuster.

Badgers have no natural enemies, except man that is, and by refusing to reduce the numbers, to manageable bounds, (as happens with deer incidentally) so the badgers themselves are being done a disservice.


Alec.
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Perhaps it's the use of the word 'cull' which to most people means 'eliminate'......so tell me how can you pick the tb infected badgers to cull while leaving the healthy ones?
 
Alec Swan said:
Two different species, obviously, but where is the management system for badgers? There isn't one, and therein lies the problem. I too have a "thing", as you put it, for badgers. I want to see the population reduced to numbers which are sustainable, reduced so that they no longer come into conflict with man.

I too stalk, and deer have been a passion for the last near 50years. Deer, where they come into conflict with man are managed by controlled shooting. Without that management, the deer become a menace to themselves. They become vermin, and the hand of everyone is against them. Badgers are now considered vermin, by many, and with a reduction in numbers, and a reduction in their disease spreading capabilities, so they will once again be the revered creature that they were previously.



Why it is that those who are opposed to the cull, insist on claiming that those who would support it, want every badger killed, is beyond me. It has never been, and would never be the intent of those who are pro cull.

For others to claim that the removal or annihilation of a species is the plan, are simply throwing out red herrings, in an attempt ti filibuster.

Badgers have no natural enemies, except man that is, and by refusing to reduce the numbers, to manageable bounds, (as happens with deer incidentally) so the badgers themselves are being done a disservice.

Brian May is being vilified, because he's set his thought process at a pitch where he wont accept the damage which the over population of badgers is doing, and also refuses to accept that the crippling effect of BTb on those who attempt to earn a living from farming cattle, is bringing many to their knees.

Brian May, who uses his public persona to campaign on a subject which is so damaging and hurtful to those who actually live a rural life, should be ashamed of himself. As a rural landowner, he's a disgrace.

Alec.
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He might be a landowner but that's all, wealth isn't wisdom.... it's like these wealthy people with lefty views allways spouting about some injustice but never puting their money where there mouth is ... he is just another hypocritcal moron with money throwing his weight about , pity people listen to them...
 
Alyth said:
Perhaps it's the use of the word 'cull' which to most people means 'eliminate'......so tell me how can you pick the tb infected badgers to cull while leaving the healthy ones?
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noun
a selective slaughter of wild animals.
• [usu. as adj. ] an inferior or surplus livestock animal selected for killing : a cull cow. My bold print.

I agree that the use of the word "Cull" is wrong, firstly because it doesn't mean a total kill, and secondly because the idea that BTb infected badgers could be selected, is ridiculous, just as the idea of night shooting is also and equally daft.

The only sensible reduction system which would work, would be that in areas of high BTb mortality rates in cattle, COUPLED TO high density populations of badgers, then selected setts would be gassed. The complete family unit would be killed. The criteria used would need to be based on a percentage of the perceived population in a given area.

Removing individual family members would most probably be counter productive, and would cause needless stress and cruelty.

Gassing would be a humane and effective method of destruction. With gas mechanically pumped underground, death is virtually instantaneous, and by the removal of entire family units, there would be virtually no chance of infected badgers being harassed and disturbed, and so moving on, spreading the problem on a wider scale, and worsening matters. The problem with gassing is that we haven't forgotten the gas chambers of WWII yet, and we aren't likely too!

I heard May interviewed on the telly the other day, and he said and I quote "I want to stop people from killing all the foxes and all the badgers". I suppose that if I keep banging on about it, for long enough, some of it might sink in; "There is no wish for eradication. Allow those who live a rural life, and care equally passionately about wildlife, to manage that wildlife, and as it has been managed, very successfully for centuries.

Alec.

p.s. Alyth, I apologise for the rant, but I'm finding it ever more difficult to keep quiet when the daily lives and well being of many who farm, are being suffocated by a group with little interest in the correct and caring management of wildlife, and every interest, or so it would seem, in their own agendas, and that applies to those who campaign against fox hunting too. a.
 
That's the issue, people get swept along being brain washed by some by him who insinuates that farmers want to wipe out all badgers. It was never about that and never will be, but the general public don't bother to find out the facts and believe an ageing rock star instead.
 
Just another example of skewed and emotive thinking for you; Do you remember that awful man Maxwell who owned The Daily Mirror? and do you remember when, whilst holding hands with Greenpeace, they campaigned against the slaughter of seals? Over-night, they stopped the trade in seal skins, with disastrous effects upon a relatively small but self contained eco-culture.

Until Greenpeace and Maxwell interfered, the Inuit fisherman held a close season for their fish stocks, to allow them to replenish their numbers. During this close season, those Inuit who relied upon fish, augmented a living from harvesting the skins of young seals, and selling them. There was a happy and balanced relationship which involved fish, seals and man.

With the collapse of the skin market, there was no living for the fishermen during the close season, the seal numbers expanded rapidly, the fish stocks were decimated, the fishermen couldn't earn a living from seals OR fishing, so they moved into the outskirts of towns, existed on Government handouts, and with little apparent purpose to life, alcohol abuse became an endemic problem amongst the Inuit, and the suicide rate became measurable. Why?

Those who claim to campaign for wildlife need to understand that living with the ethic that within a management plan, everything must live forever, are so misguided and they have the potential to effect catastrophe. I just wish that the Campaigners would look beyond what's immediately in front of them.

To the credit of Greenpeace, when they realised the damage that they had done, they withdrew from the campaign, but too late.

Alec.

p.s. Another rant, I apologise! :D
 
So, what do you make of this?

I'm all for getting this dreadful situation for our farmers under control - it is ruining their livelihood and costing the taxpayer millions in compensation for cow culling. Let's face it though, the poor cows aren't pets, but simply milking and breeding machines to satisfy our relentless demand for dairy products and meat, and face the unceremonious, largely unpublicised and summary 'chop' if their yield falls or they become barren. They have a very finite useful working life and it isn't rewarded by anything remotely generous.

We can eat TB infected meat so their carcasses ought not to be wasted completely. Put them into pies, why not?

And it is bovine TB not Mustelidae TB. What's the betting it's some man-made issue which has caused the spread of the disease and badger population 'inconvenience' in the first place!
 
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