Theoretical question - would you tell someone their horse was lame?

Santa_Claus

Santa_Claus

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Ok imagine as follows.

You have a friend/acquaintence who mainly does a couple schooling sessions a week interspersed with lunging and then hacking at the weekend they the odd (read couple times a year) local prelim dressage tests.

They own an ex racer that you have never been convinced is quite right behind from point they brought it. It failed the vet due to a sore back but they have saddle regulary checked and physio to treat back and it is certainly much improved.

Horse doesn't look particulary unhappy but on a circle in trot both ridden and lunged could be classed easily 1/10th lame behind from what looks to be a pelvis rather than leg issue.

Now would you tell the owner taking note?
- Owner would be very very upset to be told horse lame especially due to terrible bad luck previously with several horses
- Horses doesn't look in pain (as far as obvious) and it is only slight lameness and it generally has light workload.
- could well be a mechanical lameness so not causing any discomfort at all.
- Her very respected instructor has not mentioned any lameness at any point

So would you say something to the owner given the above hypothetical situation!?

Interested to know your answers
 
I was in the same position and always have said something so i did. It was very slightly 1/10 lame in my case also and will not affect him too much. Thing is if she is doing the dressage the judge should pick up on it.

Could you speak to her instructor about it before you say something though, see if she noticed anything or thought it was worth mentioning?
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In my case its still working out got to work the horse for a few weeks and pray muscle builds on that side and he becomes sound! So its still ongoing but it is good for the owners to be aware i think!
 
yes i would. it could be that she thinks it too but is not sure as no one has said anything to her about it. this happend at a yard once where i work horse was lame a little but owner was too worried to ask anyone, so just left it thinking someone would tell her.
 
Difficult one. I would only say something if I was 100% convinced the horse was lame, and not just "odd" behind. I used to be a YM, and told a girl I thought her horse looked a bit off behind - 1 or 2/10's lame. In fact, he just had a very strange action behind, accompanied by unlevel socks, and looked completely wrong. Passed a vetting with flying colours though.

So yes, in short, if it was a horse I knew and noticed a difference, I would say something. If I didn't know the horse and it was a bit borderline, then no, I wouldn't - the owner knows the horse better than anyone else and I wouldn't want to interfere. Obviously would mention a horribly obvious crippling lameness though!
 
I would raise it if I felt is was appropriate, what I would try to do would be to have a conversation with her about the horse generally and see how she felt the horse was going and try to lead her to see what you see if she wasn't aware, rather than clubbing her over the head with it if possible. Given the vet, physio and instructor involvement maybe it is mechanical and the owner is doing her best, but equally she may appreciate advice on where to turn next.
 
No, that description covers about 50% of leisure horses, IMHO. If she starts pushing the horse and it starts trying to say no, then I'd tell her I was wondering if it wasn't quite sound.
 
If it was a friend then I'd certainly mention it. And if it was me I'd be grateful! I'm assuming you (hypothetically) chat every so often? Perhaps better to mention it casually in conversation, phrased more as a question than a critisicm (I'm not sure - do you think s/he might be a little lame becasue...<details here>?). But don't worry if the reaction isn't great - In know my parents got totally sick of having to explain to all and sundry why their dog had a bald patch after an op....
 
Personally no. If he's happy in his work and coping then best left well alone. If he looked unhappy then I'd worry. As he's an ex racer he's most likely arthritic so perhaps you could suggest she puts him on a glucosomine suppliment.

But really if he's doing the job happily suggesting there is something wrong may well just cause a whole load of upset, and at the end of it he'll still be just the same.

If it gets worse, I would however definately mention it then.
 
I have in a similar situation in the past. Mention that the horse maybe didn't look quite right when you saw it the other day and suggest that you lunge it for the owner so that she can have a good look herself to see what she thinks as you can somethimes see things from outside the circle that you wont see when lunging yourself?
 
Some interesting answers so far, but always interesting to hear more..

I am as you have probably guessed in a similar situation but with some slight changes (hence this one hypothetical) and I have chosen best in my circumstances to stay quiet as I would ruffle a lot of feathers so to speak and make myself very unpopular which would be obviously difficult
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Don't worry though if a more defined lamness or the horse refusing to work because of it I will happily make my opinion known as it would be obvious the horse is suffering, at the moment though it isn't clear, I just have a very keen eye for lameness thanks to Dan
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I definetely would. If it was my horse, and something I hadn't noticed but someone else had I'd actually be pissed off if someone HADNT told me. Everyone's different but at the end of the day, the horse's health is at stake here.

tell them diplomatically.
 
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No, that description covers about 50%

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I was thinking just that, so many horse's aren't 100% behind mainly due to lack of correct schooling. I think if the horse isn't getting better or worse then it's likely to be a lazyness and or mechanical lameness. Ex-racers are notorious for being a bit odd behind, esp on a circle!
 
I wouldn't- I see lameness in everything
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Even 100% sound horses
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No horse moves perfectly, the horse is ok doing what it is then that's fine
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It's a difficult one.... I'm a bit paranoid when it comes to lameness and think i see it when there is none - especially in my own horse but it really depends on how friendly you are with the person... whatever the case I'd chose your moment carefully... perhaps mention in passing that you thought horse looked a bit 'off' out in the field and is he ok? or if you 'happen' to see her riding just say 'oooh, he horse ok? he looks a little off behind? or something just reallylaid back and like you've only just noticed... the worst she can do is disagree with you...

if said horse has had back issues it could be that they are caused by a leg problem - most likely hock...
 
no because I believe it's a bit of personal interpretation thing tbh and you may not be correct saying it's lame. If it is having physio let them deal with it
 
I would leave well alone. It seems she is doing her best by this horse (vet, saddle fitting, physio) so maybe this horse has had something wrong that can't be cured. You say the horse seems happy enough and not in any real pain.

TBH go and watch affiliated dressage and showing (don't even get me started on SJ and racing) and you'll see lots and lots of horses up the line, that don't look very sound. I'm not saying it's right but why upset your friend?

I have an ex-racer that came to me unsound. After 6 months of gentle walking, I thought she was still unsound so I called in my vet and physio. They both passed her as sound. IMO she still takes unlevel steps during transistions but who am I to argue?
 
Definitely- if it can be noticed that the horse doesn't look or more importantly, feel right, then yes I would tell them nicely as IMO a horses welfare comes first and even if a horse is only 1/10 lame, it's still 1/10 lame and there are things that may be done to help it. The back prob could probably be secondary to somthing else, as long as you let the owner know in a nice kind way, I can't see why they could be offended. Good luck!
 
No - Most lesisure horses are 1/10th lame or more and, as you point out, the horse is perfectly happy with his light workload. Your friend would most probably panic, and embark upon expensive veterinary work which would be unlikelyt to lead to a conclusion. The end result would be a horse and owner that carry on doing exactly what they were before, with the addition of a big vet bill and a load of unecessary stress!

If the lameness gets any worse or becomes an issue, then I would mention it.
 
Sod the Owner's feelings and being upset.
What about the horse?
If the horse is lame or even just unlevel (a) she should have noticed it and (b) felt it whilst riding said set of 4-legs.
Owner might be a Novice and or Half-Wit and not noticed (a) or (b) - but if YOU have noticed it, then should not the Instructor have done so as well?
However, if the Instructor is a BHSAI - enough said !!
Perhaps Instructor should sit on said set of 4-legs? Sometimes unsoundness can be difficult to actually "see" but very easy to "feel".
 
So owner knew it was sore when it was bought and is taking steps to improve that. Presumably the instructor knows this as well? So I'd speak quietly to the instructor and ask if he/she is happy that the horse is improving.
 
Yes, Id tell anyone if I was sure, in pain or not! Who's to say it wont be in pain a few weeks/months down the line??

My friend went to look at a horse in Devon a few months ago, about 1 1/2 hours away, it had had an op last year on a tendon or something, so I wasn't convinced anyway, when it was going round the school, it was really short behind. I told the owner it was
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When we got home and watched the video back, you could see how bad it actually was! Needless to say friend didn't even bother to have a 2 stage vet done, it would have failed!!!!
 
Totally agree with Flame see many horses with borderline lameness but TBH I think a lot is just one-sidedness and horse doesn't step evenly through on both reins. Also sometimes if you looked at my horse in warm-up he would be uneven because he suffers from an old SI injury but when he is warmed up properly and working evenly it goes away. Its not pain just a weakness.

In my experience people dont like hearing their horse is lame and tend to shoot the messenger!
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Yes I would mention it, subtly and carefully. I'd ask her if he felt odd behind or she had noticed anything. If I knew that someone thought that my girl was lame and I hadn't noticed it then I'd be upset they hadn't told me. The thought of my horse in any sort of discomfort and me not doing anything about it is awful. I would be kind and gentle though, perhaps suggest she asks her instructor to watch carefully during their next lesson
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