There are so many horse that are too difficult for the average rider. Sigh....

Enfys said:
So how did the horse industry end up with so many horses not suited to the average rider?

I think the answer to your question is people overface themselves, thinking that they are better prepared than they actually are, in short - education, the lack of, in both of horse and rider/handler.

ps. I wouldn't ride a QH by choice either, give me a spunky little arabian anyday, but then they are a bit much for some people so I never say "Oh why not consider on"
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I like Thoroughbreds and also wouldn't recommend them for just anyone. Yes, I am getting one and the only debate for me is size as I hanker for a big Warmblood type of Thoroughbred.

The original question wasn't if riders over-horse themselves, it was why are there so many horses out there on the market that are unsuitable for the average rider.
 
I would suggest there are several reasons.
Start with the fact horses are much more accesable now than they were 20 years ago.
Look at the fact that we are now trying to breed flashy big moving performance horses
People often don't realise how much work a horse needs. How many times have you seen horses bought off a riding school who were perfect doing 3 + hours a day, and turn into lunatics when only ridden on the weekend?
People underestimate the time and effort involved in bringing horses on
People often over feed.
When it was just the sport for the rich, they employed someone to ride the horse, and keep it schooled for when they did ride it.
Fewer people are learning properly, the colleges have degraded horsemen, and no one learns by doing due to health and safety.
As with every aspect of life, we have dumbed down and it helps no one.
 
Zaminda - I couldn't agree more.
Too little knowledge, too much hard feed, too little work and from what I saw over the weekend far to many novice riders buying young horses which are beyond their ability to bring on correctly which you just know will become 'problem horses in a couple of years. :mad:
 
Taking in to account the six people who have come to see my [two] horses, five have been incompetent and one competent.
They were not aware that because they had just learned to trot on a RS pony, and in a manege, they were not ready to buy a pony. In spite of assurances before purchase, they decided to stop lessons, apparently once they had the pony for three months, they would have "bonded" and all would be well.
On another occasion, I took a child [with her loan pony] on an accompanied hack, her mother asked me to "put on the halter" for her, goodness knows how they would have managed if I had not happened to be there.
If the average rider is only able to ride a rising trot on a well schooled pony, it is impossible to produce the average pony, most are not born bombproof and well schooled, it does not work that way.
 
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I would consider myself a novice, a happy hacker and pleasure rider, love a good blast but on a safe horse; When I've looked at horses, I've always understated my abilities; I am quite clued up on nutrition/feet etc though.

I don't have the time or knowledge for problems, sadly I've had a couple that haven't worked out, but a couple that have been fantastic for me :)

My experience is people not being totally truthfull in what they are selling! There's a lot of horses for sale atm. Are sellers just desperate to get rid?
 
Flame_ said:
Ambition. International Velvet wasn't riding a 15 hand native was she? Most people, even a lot of hacking enthusiasts, have some competitive aspirations that they have dreamt of since forever ago and have been desperate to get even a flicker closer to achieving for just as long. So when the time comes to get a horse, the one in the Horse and Hound that can jump the highest/move the biggest/is a supermodel is hard to dismiss is favor of Mr Average. You just want all the help you can get to achieve the dream. Plus on the advert these athletes are paragons of virtue who can do it all so why buy a lesser animal? ;)

Plus on the supply side, most breeders are trying to breed those epic superstars that will make them a fortune, they aren't aiming for Mr Average. Whether the breeders achieve those few great horses or not, the failed superstars aren't exactly designed with straightforwardness in mind either and these are the cast offs that are marketed at amateurs.
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I think that sometimes this is the problem. Well bred horses although bred to be fantastic jumpers/dressage horses are often too quirky for the 'average' rider as they're bred to be competition horses and if they're good at their job then the riders will compromise if they're a bit grumpy in the stable, or throw in a few bucks here and there. Both Warmbloods i've had have come with their own set of quirks and irrational thoughts - both had very good bloodlines, yet Fabio my of unknown breeding palomino has the most super temperament and is easy to deal with on the ground and ridden.
 
Also factor in peer pressure, and the want to have a horse which looks the part. So many people would be happier and better off with something nice that is never going to jump pa 3ft course. However, as they want to fit in they buy something capable of doing more.
I've never undertood it, I buy something to do the specific job I want to do, not somebody else.
 
I never even sat on a horse until I was almost 40, I have no ambitions other than to hack, not a competetive bone in my body! The only thing I ever wanted to do was to take a horse to the beach, and I achieved that a few years ago and I've been each year since :)
 
The thing that really intrigues me are all the "my TB/WB/ISH 4 year old is very sharp and spooky, what calmer should I give him/her" questions these days. Too many attempts at a quick fix and an unwillingness (or perhaps lack of time) to simply get on and ride them to work them through it and build their confidence in you as their rider.

Why don't people just stop and think? If you haven't got time for a youngster / a sharp competition horse or you don't have the right back up/support to manage them then for goodness sake don't buy one and hope it will be ok! I know what the OP means about the availability of beautiful but very cheap horses with issues, it's frightening :(
 
I think the mistake most new riders make is to waste their time trying to find a horse that suits their abilities, rather than improve their ability so that they are competent enough for almost any horse.

Even the lowliest cob has a flash point and that has to be dealt with, whether on the ground or under saddle.

Equestrians just have to keep putting the hours in!:)
 
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Some very good points have been made here. Horses nowadays have a lot more blood than they used to, most breeders aim to breed a competition horse and when they don't make the top level these are what are sold on to the "average" rider, who seems these days to be a lot less capable than in the "old" days. Riding schools, if the buyer has even graced such an establishment, seem not to be able to produce competant, efficient riders. It is not the horses that are too difficult, it is the riders who are incompetant.
 
dressagelove said:
I was always told that horse which are for sale often are for sale for a reason... ie. there's something wrong with them.

Not always obviously, sometimes they are sold for genuine reasons, cash, time etc, but sometimes, horses are sold for a reason.
I was always told to buy a youngster, then you are not 'buying anyone else's mistakes / problems'. maybe that's what is happening with you?

I would try and find an unspoilt genuine youngster, work with it with your good ground skills, then progress together, then eventually you will have a cracking horse that is just what you want.
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Just a little note from my experience on buying youngsters... Don't do it unless you definitely have the time for years to come! I bought her as a 3yo and we progressed loads together but there is no taking a single short cut... you can't miss one evening ride even if its pitch black and raining in the floodlit arena in the middle of february...I had to give her up when she was 5 because of time pressure. I told the person that if she ever sells her tell me first!!
 
I think it's because once people have put the time and effort into bringing on a youngster into a nice, well mannered allrounder then they don't sell it. If they do then they command high prices.
Thats why a lot of horses for sale are green youngsters, horses with issues or quirks or super expensive horses.
I think most horses are fine with a rider who has a half decent seat and a bit of common sense but I guess it would be surprising as to how many people dont have those things!
 
Please do not take on a young horse so that "you can learn together" unless you are an gnarled, old and very experienced trainer. It is a blind leading the blind situation otherwise, and many, many of the so-called problem horses are created by just this scenario.
 
I personally think it's because everyones been so busy breeding for comformation and talent that temperament got completly forgotten about.
 
I think people may be more stylish riders, in that they can do a passable prelim test, but there are many riders who have no nerve, no common sense and don't want to venture past the security of the arena fence - therefore they may find a horse who asks questions and has an opinion a bit more difficult to deal with.

Also there are many more WBs on the market, who have breeding lines which may suggest they are extremely talented, but these are often horses who need routine and 'black and white' handling and working, and may not react well to a wussy lady owner.

I'd go for a youngster - with a bit of nouse and an engine .. Welsh cob or TBx or something.

Sorry if I have upset anyone!
 
I also think riding schools and trainers have a lot to answer for giving people delusions of adequacy when it comes to their ability, by only giving them dopes on ropes to ride and letting them lump about and telling them they are wonderful instead of really teaching them.

When I sold my beautiful, talented, but decidedly quirky warmblood mare, I advertised her honestly, and tried my best to politely screen out the dreamers who telephoned - including one lady who became abusive when I suggested the mare may not be an ideal mount for her grand-daughter who had "been having lessons for SIX MONTHS!!!:eek:

Despite this I had people turn up who didn't have the sensitivity of aids to ride a sports horse (I had to ask one person to get off as the mare did not appreciate pony club kicks) - and one woman with an orange stick with a bit of string on the end to whom I didn't even let onto the yard.

More sinister was a "trainer" who turned up with a very nice but slightly nervous lady. The trainer rode my mare well, but I got the distinct impression that by overhorsing her pupil that would open up a whole new income stream for the trainer!!!:mad:
 
Faracat said:
Maybe the level of an 'average' rider has dropped? ;)
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I think this is at least partly the case. Or that people over estimate their ability. When I had horses for sale I'd have any number of people who had had by their own admission 'a few lessons' could get a RS horse to walk, trot and canter, and thought that made them competent enough to handle and ride a young (very nice, and sane) TB. It's not just in England; I used to give riding lessons here and invariably people told me they could 'already ride' when in fact they could steer a bit and not fall off but if the horse took so much as an unexpected step, they'd be flailing and flapping all over the place.
 
I am getting on a bit now and remember as a young person wanting to be like my show jumping cousin I got a flashy arab x at 13 and nearly got killed several times as I had only been taught to ride by my Dad who was a ploughman he made me ride bearback for 12 months before he got me a second hand saddle, he then biult me show jumps and made me jump them at the fastest pace! hense lots of injuries he would not let me have lessons and told me to Stand up when jumping OMG ! as soon as I had chance I had many lessons of several judges and show people plus went hunting showing and then had to give up due to dissability I became a Breeder but being disabled has taught me you need safe horses who dont flap! who are genuine and kind I have ridden ex racers from 3 years old to showing riding horse classes to hunting showjumping only novice I have had ponies and show jumped them and now coloured horses racers but the ones in my life that have been good have been Kind this is what we lack in the breeding job to many unkind horses and not enough riding experiance in our young
 
^^^^^ I got a flashy arab cross that was too much for me at thirteen, I think it was the best thing to happen to me as a rider. Taught me to stay calm and sit still! :D

Another thing on the supply side is money. The horses which fetch the high prices are the pretty and the talented. It costs a lot to breed and raise a foal so if you are in that game you will be more likely to try for the flashy, pricey sort for experienced, real horsepeople homes (which will also, generally speaking though of course not always, be the better homes) than to breed for the £1 - £3K market. Safe and sensible doesn't particularly make money.
 
To many numpties that know nothing about animals.

I have not been around horses all my life, but I have been around other animals all my life. I may not be a very good rider, but I can pick a decent horse out from bad ones, handle them correctly, and re-back the 3yo ex-racer I bought (with some help!)
 
Falling standards of owners for sure and paradoxically a more risk averse culture. When I started jumping at local shows, the first class was 2'9'' (85cm), my first event was Novice BE. Now don't get me wrong my goal (age 46) for this year (or next) is BE 80T but the whole cumulative effect of the 'standard' for novices being 40/50/60 cm etc has led to a raft of riders never really learning to ride but thinking they can.

Also agree that hobby (like me) or professional breeders spending loads on semen etc to breed superstars (not working for me, mine are all dobbins) and then bailing on what they can't handle is contributing too.
 
kippen64 said:
So how did the horse industry end up with so many horses not suited to the average rider? Am keen to read what people think. Cheers.
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I don't think it has.

I think it has ended up with horses that are not suitable for the novice rider.
 
amymay said:
I don't think it has.

I think it has ended up with horses that are not suitable for the novice rider.
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You always say what I am trying to say so much better than I do :o

I really don't think the OP's definition of average is the same as mine. What they describe as average is a novice rider, IMHO. Hence my statement that I am about average.
 
jesstickle said:
You always say what I am trying to say so much better than I do :o
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:p:p

I really don't think the OP's definition of average is the same as mine. What they describe as average is a novice rider, IMHO. Hence my statement that I am about average.
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I too am a very average rider - and agree with you about the OP's definition.
 
This subject was given a good airing not so long ago.

Too many horses are not given a good basic schooling. They are often poorly handled, either too rough or not disciplined sufficiently - a difficult middle road. It is long and hard work to take a young horse from breaking in to being a good all rounder, safe to be ridden in all circumstances.

A finished, schooled horse is a lot of money, and most people with those skills will very likely be producing for the competition market - the young eventer, dressage horse or show jumper,not the ordinary weekend rider.

So people buy an unschooled horse as it is cheaper, and then lack the skills to do the job correctly.

I was recently looking at the adverts for someone and found that 4 our of 5 horses advertised locally wouldn't hack out by themselves.
 
kippen64 said:
The original question wasn't if riders over-horse themselves, it was why are there so many horses out there on the market that are unsuitable for the average rider.
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I think that there are horses out there to suit everyone, it is just that people don't match the right one to their ability at the time they are choosing one. It's like learning to drive, you don't generally start off in a Ferrari, you upgrade with confidence and experience.

Sometimes riders fancy a stonking great warmblood (for example) simply because they look impressive, or their friends have one and they don't realise how much power there is there. I am an 'average' rider but there's no way I would choose to ride certain types of horses simply because I know what my limitations are, physical and otherwise.
 
I think bad management plays a huge part - not enough turn out, too much feed, not enough equine company or downtime, too much time spent doing endless circles in an arena, all blows a horse's brains. I always get comments about how calm our horses are and I do believe it's just because the horses are happy and settled with their life and don't feel the need to throw their toys out the pram at every oppurtunity. And we have a couple of ex racers and ex competition horses, horses with a lot of blood, but they are all suitable for the 'average' rider.
 
Many of todays horse owners treat buying a new horse as a fashion accessories and happily go out and buy a beatiful designer horse but end up being completely over-horsed and unable to manage or ride it. I blame this on the demise of the traditional riding school where people where taken out for hacks on the roads and where both horse and rider where exposed to their surroundings. A lot of todays riders can ride very well in a menage but that is where it stops. Put them in an open field or on the road and they have no bottle at all. Also most riders today have very little knowledge of stable management and also little inclination to learn more about looking after a horse.
 
OWLIE185 said:
Many of todays horse owners treat buying a new horse as a fashion accessories and happily go out and buy a beatiful designer horse but end up being completely over-horsed and unable to manage or ride it.
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I absolutely agree. Just this past year I have seen a teenage girl I teach buy horses way beyond her capabilities, despite advice to the contrary from myself and the head coach. I have ended up with pupil who is bascially sacred of her animal, who needs to be led and walked through every stage but whose parents comment on how beautiful the horses are as if that was all that mattered. I hope with time and good instructuon things will come right, but why would you buy a top-end competiton horse for your 15 year old who only has experience of lesson neddies, and no real ambition to compete? Waste of a horse, waste of money and waste of everyones time, IMO.
 
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