There seems to be a clear divide in the bute camp!

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Sophstar

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Since I posted about my cob being diagnosed with arthritis and facing the prospect of bute for life/long term use, I have found from the responses of that post and other threads that there is a clear divide on people who are happy to have horses kept on permenant painkillers and those who do not support this. I have my opinion on this matter (which lies somewhere in the middle of the 2:rolleyes:)however there is also a theme that whatever choice you feel is right, you get harshly criticised!

So what side of the divide do you sit on? Support of bute/painkillers for long term comfort or dislike or disagreement a horse should be kept on painkillers to remain comfy? Obviously the job/age etc of the horse will influence it hugely however after viewing a few threads, I find it very shocking when upset owners get slated and abused for having their pets PTS because they made the choice not to keep them on pain medication in order to keep them sound and comfortable.
 
I think it should be an owner choice personally, providing a decent vet supports their decision and the horse isn't suffering. I think when it gets to a point where the pain relief is no longer having full effect and the horse deteriorates then it may be time to say goodbye!
 
It's a tricky situation. On the one hand, you want to maintain quality of life for the horse (or you'd be better having it pts) but you have to weigh this against the risk of the horse (or owner) doing further damage as a result of feeling better and the risks of bute toxicity.

I have more of a problem with people using bute in order to ride / work horses, or using it indiscriminately, often followed by turning the animal out - pain is there for a reason, to protect the horse from further injury. To remove the pain is only asking for trouble in my opinion.

However, if you accept that your horse has a condition like arthritis - where pain relief may be essential for quality of life, I don't see the problem. Using bute to keep a horse sound enough to do an optimal amount of very light, steady work (which helps with the stiffness) and to maintain quality of life in a horse is one thing - using bute to enable you to compete your horse is another - and totally unacceptable.
 
IMO there is nothing wrong with putting a horse on long term bute, if whatever it needs it for in incurable, such as arthritus.

I would happily put any of mine on it, if they needed it for quality of life and that includes the younger one. So what if a few years on you end up having them PTS for damage the Bute causes. If you dont do it, you will end up putting to sleep sooner because they have no quality of life.

With regard to the arthritus though, I would be looking at other ways to manage it first. 4 years ago my (now 35) oldie was looking as though he would need it. He lived at the top of a high moor, very cold, wet and windy a lot of the time. We moved the horses to get more facilities to a yard down in the valley. The improvement in him was massive, he still is not on Bute except the odd sachet for the farrier etc.

When he was stiff I found over rugging to keep him warm, magnetic boot and leg warmers made a real difference. Whether the magnetic boots worked or just kept him even warmer I dont know.

I know some people advise keeping arthritic horses out to keep them moving. I dont actually agree with that, although they do need to go out every day. I have found that warm and dry is better.
 
My cob with arthritis is being gently walked out for half hr or so as much as possible. My friend kindly put her 4 year old on him today so he could have a plod out round the block as by the time I finish work it's pitch black! He is out 24/7 but has been moved to a drier field, wears magnetic boots at night, he was on bute once a day but waiting for more to arrive from vet so trying 'no bute' instead plus has linseed oil added to his feed. I'm not keen on having him on bute for VERY long term as you are masking the pain and almost tricking the body into thinking it's fine. He is a happy hacker, done a few sponsored rides and pops over a small jump now and then and agree that horses shouldn't be buted up to the eyeballs to maintain competition level. He is currently receiving 1 bute a day which keeps him comfortable pottering round the field and as long he is happy and sound(ish!) on a relatively low dose then that's fine for me:D
 
My 25yo is on an ad hoc low dose of bute (danilon) for arthritis. It's a bit of a weird situation because he's not lame as such, but he is a bit stiff/sore outside his 'comfortable' range of movement. He struggles if he has to bend his hindlegs tightly, so without the bute farrier visits, horse stiles and getting up in the field can be a bit difficult. The bute has made one heck of a difference - I never thought I'd be so pleased to see him plastered in mud.

It's an anti-inflammatory, too, which is particularly effective for arthritic conditions, so it's not just a painkiller.

I've got no issues with having him on it long term. He's still in light work although I don't compete him any more (obviously).
 
I used to think that I wouldn't want a horse on long term bute and that it wasn't ok. Our horse has been diagnosed with arthritis and was two tenths lame, the vet could hardly find the lameness when she went there. She had steroid injections into the joints which didn't help much. She is sound on one bute a day and the vets say it is ok to ride her. She is not a competition horse, we mainly hack and go to about two hunts meets a year that we can hack to. As long as she is happy on a small dose of bute we will continue to ride her, as others have said bute takes away the inflammation which causes the pain rather than masking pain.
 
i have a cut off point with bute - my big & elderly mare is now on 1 bute a day - she is arthritic but sound & is better in work than not & at nearly 22 i am realistically not over-worried about long term damage BUT when [ if] she reaches the stage that 2 bute a day cannot keep her comfortable then I will do the decent thing
 
Sorry to rattle off my favourite old chestnut but if your boy is suffering with arthritis, do try him on turmeric. For a lot of horses it really helps and is cheap and chips with no side-effects. If you do a search on here you'll find lots of mentions of it :)
 
I sometimes give it of necessary but as a person with chronic headaches I very rarely take painkillers myself. Why? Because long term use renders them ineffective. Then you need more. It's a vicious circle. So I wouldn't poison my own body why would I do it to a horse? I would use natural things (and do) for mild but chronic pain. I save te bute for when it's really needed.

No I don't believe in long term use. Personally.

But that's the thing. The animals we have are in our care. We each have to decide how far we would go and what we will do and won't do. Just because the decision may be different from someone else does not make it wrong. Do what you feel is right, that's all you can ever do.
 
I've kept a horse on bute from a 16yo until he was PTS at 20. He developed ringbone, however he was a very active horse, and hated doing nothing.
The bute allowed him to hunt once a week, upping the dose the day before and the day after.
At 19 he was ridden lightly as a schoolmaster for a WP.
He did all this on one or 2 bute a day, with time off it if he wasn't being ridden.
Then he needed it to stay sound in the field and couldn't be ridden. Because of that he went downhill very fast mentally, was very unhappy so the difficult decision to PTS was taken.
I would have carried on without a moment's hesitation if he had remained sound enough. There was no obvious downside to the longterm use, and I would do it again.

He had a fantastic 4 pain free years having a wonderful time that wouldn't have happened without the bute.
 
I agree with Rubysmum if we start needing more than one bute a day just to keep comfortable then we will have some difficult decisions to make.
Alphamare I don't agree that it becomes less effective (maybe other types of pain killers do) but bute keeps the inflammation down which is what causes the pain in arthritis and inflammation causes more inflammation. This is what the vets have said to me.
 
I think long term pain relief is fine. I also think its fine to pts rather than spend a fortune on years of pain medication with all its BS regulations these days.
 
domane said:
Sorry to rattle off my favourite old chestnut but if your boy is suffering with arthritis, do try him on turmeric. For a lot of horses it really helps and is cheap and chips with no side-effects. If you do a search on here you'll find lots of mentions of it :)
Click to expand...

I'm going to try it now on my oldie, so thanks for rattling on :)
 
My 21 year old has recently been retired on vet advice and has arthritis and will be on bute long term. While bute has side effects her life expectancy is not so great that it is likely to matter. She seems happy enough and the vet says I will know when the time comes to pts. My mum has had terrible arthritis for years and has had so many different combinations of drugs that it makes me realise how little I can do for a horse. Arthritis is horrible and people with horses who suffer with it have my sympathy all you can do is the best you can for your horse and take vet advice.
 
Anything that stays in the system of the animal thus rendering it a potential risk to consumers (which is why you sign the form in the passport regarding slaughter) cannot be good for the horse either. It certainly gives them ulcers.
 
I wouldnt keep either of mine on Bute long term to maintain soundness, I dont knock others for doing it but for me if they cant remain sound as a field ornament without Bute then its PTS
 
Personally i think it depends on your reasons for putting a horse on bute.

If you do it because the horse has slight stiffness but is otherwise happy and enjoying life, and you work them appropriately with due respect for the age and stiffness then i have no issue - and have done it myself.

If you bute something up to hide lameness, then ride and compete as if a horse with no issues then i disagree.

Of course there are many mroe factors to take into consideration than can be listed on a black and white forum post, but the justification for the long term medication and the intent behind it is the deciding factor for me in whether it is the right thing to do or not.
 
I would try the alternatives before I went down the bute road im afraid.

If it was a case o keeping him comfy on retiement then a bute a day would be ok but if hes getting any exercise at all all the bute is doing is masking the, making him feel better and doing more damage.

My guys has had it for a loooong time, he still sound, he has an off day or a flare up to which he may get som bute but its literally for a couple of days then hes fine again, and hes lucky if he has these flair ups twice a year.

The rest of the rest of the time hes fine he gets sharks cartialge and a glucosamine lick nd hes schooled to keep him supple and we have given up jumping as it makes him stiffer the next day, not lame but stiff.

I would look to tumeric, devils claw or sharks cartialge as none attack the liver or kidneys like bute does :)
 
please consider using Danilon rather than bute it is much better for their stomachs more suitable for Long term use.
It is a personal choice the working on long term drug thing it depends on the lots of things however I do not like to see lame horses in field strugging around because their owners don't 'agree with long term bute use' I can't see that horses have a good quality of life like that
 
I have nothing against giving a low dose of anti-inflammatories to allow a horse to mooch around the field more happily. I wouldn't however ride a horse who had been given bute.
 
katherine1975 said:
as others have said bute takes away the inflammation which causes the pain rather than masking pain.
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking, this isn't really true - or at least, not in the manner in which you mean it. Bute is anti-inflammatory which will make the condition "feel" better - but the inflammation (and pain) is there for the same purpose - healing and prevention of further injury by limiting / discouraging excessive movement. Removing the inflammation is just masking the condition, rather than masking the pain. However, as I said before, I don't disagree with the use of bute to improve quality of life or to enable quiet exercise.
 
katherine1975 said:
I found this article interesting http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/choose-your-joint-care-weapon-wisely
Click to expand...

link doesn't work?


redundant post, link fixed :o

I disagree with the notion that stopping inflammation stops the degeneration of the cartilage. I could talk about that in molecular or pathological terms, but it might be easier to think about it from first principles - the initial damage to the cartilage occured before inflammation - inflammation is the response, not the cause. Joints degenerate when given analgesic injections - regardless of those injections - those injections do not prevent further damage to the cartilage or degeneration of the synovial fluid. They do, however, improve the outward signs of the disease - which is the concern of vets. I would point out that an article published by a vet, without any referencing or peer review is hardly a reasonable source for actual science. Vets aren't scientists - if you want to understand the pathology, you'd get a more accurate idea of the effects from a scientist :rolleyes:
 
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If the bute keeps the horse comfortable - what's the problem, imo.

As long as the owner tries to support the system from side effects as much as possible and they are prepared to PTS when it's time.
 
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