There seems to be a misconception...

PucciNPoni said:
I asked her what a labradinger was (being coy). She said, with a perfectly straight face: A labradinger is a labrador x springer where the daddy is a labrador. If it was the other way around, it would be a springador.


People will call us and say they have a purebred pedigree Jackadoodle-tzu. Do we know how to groom this breed? Because they have a specfic hair do. :eek:
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this made me laugh!!!!! :D :D :D
 
out of interest hypothetically(sp?!) speaking....:rolleyes:
if you were to breed two different pedigree dogs together (i know, I know, you wouldnt, but humour me!!) with regard to health issues of the two breeds there seems to be a lose-lose situation on here because if you breed a dog A (with a breed tendancy to dislocate her paw) with dog B (with a breed tendancy to dislocate his tail) then you are risking puppies with dilocated paw and tails ... or is there a possibility dog A will improve dog Bs problems and vis-versa. because theoretically breeding pedigrees with pedigrees is breeding puppies with the same weaknesses aswell?!:confused:
im not stirring...its a genuine interest, and for the record I no longer own a dog so will not be creating a new breed off the back of your opinions :rolleyes:
*runs for cover*
 
Possibly, AFAIK it would depend on the genetics - if it was a recessive gene causing the issue then if both parents carried the recessive gene then the pupes would have a 1 in 4 chance of inheriting the problem (going back to A Lvele Biology there and I only got a C!:o).

As I understand it, if you had two breeds prone to hip displasia for example, and you bred these two breeds together using animals with poor hip scores, the puppies would stand a good chance of also having poor hips, just as they would if those parents had bred with other poor examples of their own breed. This is one of the potential problems with bad breeding of crosses, there is a perception that the puppies will automatically be healthy and therefore the parents are not health-tested, so there's no way of knowing what you might be passing on to the puppies (also bad breeding of pedigree dogs).
 
What she said ^^^ although she didn't do well at A Lvele English, I hear :p

If people sell you a crossbred, with the main selling point being that they are 'healthier' or 'hardier' without any health tests on the parents, then sorry, they are just after cash IMO.

There is a big thing about 'size correctors' in our breed, but if you mate a small dog to a big bitch, there is still a chance that some of the puppies will be donkeys.

Best breeding correct sized animals to correct sized animals!

I've done the breakdown of the breeding of my older dog before now and most of the litter seemed to have picked up the worst points from both parents and far too much from the bitch, who was by far the weaker half of the pairing.
 
CaveCanem said:
What she said ^^^ although she didn't do well at A Lvele English, I hear :p

If people sell you a crossbred, with the main selling point being that they are 'healthier' or 'hardier' without any health tests on the parents, then sorry, they are just after cash IMO.

There is a big thing about 'size correctors' in our breed, but if you mate a small dog to a big bitch, there is still a chance that some of the puppies will be donkeys.

Best breeding correct sized animals to correct sized animals!

I've done the breakdown of the breeding of my older dog before now and most of the litter seemed to have picked up the worst points from both parents and far too much from the bitch, who was by far the weaker half of the pairing.
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Gah!

I got an A, but not in typngin:p:D
 
There is another perception on this thread that pedigree dogs are less healthy than your good old mongrel.

Whilst this is probabley true about byb and puppy farms because you dont know what health issues are down the line , responsible and ethical breeders have the breed at heart and are working to eliminate a lot of heredity diseases such as VWD with careful breeding. Obviously you get what you pay for and a good health tested puppy is never going to be cheap but I would take my chance any day with one of these because it is far less likely to develop one of these life threatening disease.
 
I will admit that I haven't read through the whole thread, but I fail to see how a crossbred dog, is any more or less than a pedigree dog. Pedigree dogs, were cross bred, at some stage, then refined, and then re-formed, and that's how we arrive at breed standards, for what they're worth.

There are many of the numerically lesser breeds, and to pick just one out of the hat, let's consider the Clumber Spaniel, OK, two!! the Deerhound, and both could be vastly improved by going back to their roots, in part, and sourcing by out cross, the ESS, and the Greyhound. As breeds, they are going round in circles, and disappearing.........!

I have no time for designer breeds. They are invariably two, or more breeds of dog which have been brought together, with no serious intent, beyond making money, and a dubious claim to fame.

Every dog is a cross breed, or was at some time!!

Alec.
 
My first time in AAD and what an interesting thread!
Reminds me of a new livery arriving at the yard not long after a litter of pups was born. She was in raptures over the 'springadors'! Poor farmer (recently deceased) nearly choked on his cuppa at the 'townie' name for his much in demand gundogs.
My pet hate is people breeding 'wolves'. Any sane, rational human being knows that there is no more wolf in these hybrid dogs than there is in a standard sliced loaf. However, there's plenty of numpties willing to part with hundreds of pounds to own said 'wolf'!
 
superted1989 said:
My first time in AAD and what an interesting thread!
Reminds me of a new livery arriving at the yard not long after a litter of pups was born. She was in raptures over the 'springadors'! Poor farmer (recently deceased) nearly choked on his cuppa at the 'townie' name for his much in demand gundogs.
My pet hate is people breeding 'wolves'. Any sane, rational human being knows that there is no more wolf in these hybrid dogs than there is in a standard sliced loaf. However, there's plenty of numpties willing to part with hundreds of pounds to own said 'wolf'!
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Welcome to AAD. You're post made me chuckle (no easy task at pre six am!) ;)


The wolf -thing is one that's often used as a selling point in the US. It's a bit sad, all those people who think they want to own something so rare - yet every one seems to have one! :eek:
 
Alec Swan said:
I will admit that I haven't read through the whole thread, but I fail to see how a crossbred dog, is any more or less than a pedigree dog. Pedigree dogs, were cross bred, at some stage, then refined, and then re-formed, and that's how we arrive at breed standards, for what they're worth.

There are many of the numerically lesser breeds, and to pick just one out of the hat, let's consider the Clumber Spaniel, OK, two!! the Deerhound, and both could be vastly improved by going back to their roots, in part, and sourcing by out cross, the ESS, and the Greyhound. As breeds, they are going round in circles, and disappearing.........!

I have no time for designer breeds. They are invariably two, or more breeds of dog which have been brought together, with no serious intent, beyond making money, and a dubious claim to fame.

Every dog is a cross breed, or was at some time!!

Alec.
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Really well put, Alec. You've said much more clearly what I've been burbling on about.
 
PucciNPoni said:
Welcome to AAD. You're post made me chuckle (no easy task at pre six am!) ;)


The wolf -thing is one that's often used as a selling point in the US. It's a bit sad, all those people who think they want to own something so rare - yet every one seems to have one! :eek:
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There's a lady that lives down the road from me that owns a 'wolf'. To be fair, she's not 'all the ticket' iykwim, but she'll chat for hours about how he's a pedigree wolf and she paid £800 for him! Nice enough dog, my guess is half GSD (his bark sounds full GSD!) and the other half something like Irish Wolfhound, looks nothing at all like a wolf. His name is Stanley, always makes me chuckle!
 
amy_b said:
where do lurchers sit on the designer dogs topic...?
*tiptoes out chukkling!*
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Drop and run! LOL


Actually, I don't know where lurchers fall on that? I had never even heard of them before I came to the UK. I'm under the impression that they were bred for a specific agricultural purpose -- a quick google tells me that they're bred to be keepers dogs and for coursing? I dunno. However, they really do pre-date the whole fad of breeding pom x poodle, calling it a pomapoo and taking £1200 for them. All the lurchers I'd ever seen advertised were like £50.

I don't consider them to be "designer dogs" by any stretch of the word, even though at one point it was probably rather fashionable to have one. I think it was the intention in which they were bred that for me keeps them out of the DD category.
 
lurchers are not deigner dogs, and there is no such specific crosses to name, mine is a bedlington/ whippet. so designer name, Bedit? But Lurchers were bred for a working purpose, a gypsies dog/ a poachers dog a cur, badly thought of by the 'posh' folk and looked down upon as a mongrel. They were hunting dogs, bred to put food on the table. Sight hounds on their own were not hardy enough or tenacious enough or sometimes strong enough to keep on at the kill so bedlingtons were added in to add in determination and hardiness, colles add agility, staffies add jaw strength and so on. So no designer breed this one it was down to the poacer/gypsy to add in what they wanted to the mix. Their killing ability was the key, not how cute they looked. I would never put them in a designer dog category, although to wander round Badminton seems to suggest that a lurcher is now a desirable dog amongst horsey people.

I think all dogs should be health checked before breeding. I think personally that there are far far far too many people breeding 'cos they can' and because they want cute puppies without ever thinking about their future. There are far too many men who when you mention neuter their dog they cross their legs and say no way, he is keeping his! There are ignorant people in all walks of life and all you can hope for really is that withthe current economic climate people realise they cannot afford to buy a dog and look after it which will reduce the amount of puppies being sold.
 
We did all our research and after much debate decided on getting a cocker spaniel. I'd just started at looking into finding the right breeder etc when along came a pointy cock (trademarked! :D) accident which we rehomed instead.

So we do not have all the intended health testing etc, but equally he was not bought (and paid for!) as a designer mix.

The "breeder" just wanted rid as mum is his working cocker and he was intending to put her to his working springer to get his next generation of working dogs. I wonder if he'd known what Rocky would grow into whether he might have chosen to keep him as he is a working dog through and through :eek: but his loss is our gain.

As soon as he was old enough his bits were removed as I'm sure the world can cope without having the offspring of our manic (but gorgeous) unhealthtested mutt in it!

I'm very much each to their own. Whilst I find the designer names funny (in the fact they are very cringy etc) I will not hold it against you (too much!) if you choose to call your dog a bullshitz or a pointy cock (trademarked, don't forget). But please don't then imply that makes your mutt worth a fortune, or that somehow crossing two pedigrees makes it somehow a pedigree bullshitz.
 
So, been musing about all this... Just wondering whether you anti cross people have any issue with the breeding of my aunt's labradoodle (F1 hybrid). Was talking to her last night and she explained that the breeder of her dog had proof of low hip scores for both parents and proof of some other health screening (sorry, not sure what as was a few years ago and aunt can't remember exactly). The breeder also provided paperwork to the effect that she will take the dog back if my aunt ever needs to rehome, and will also either take the dog back or provide a refund of purchase price if the dog is found to have some sort of congenital/inherited health problem (not sure of exact wording, but you get the picture). the breeder has also kept in touch and taken an interest in the dog's upbringing.

So, this was no back yard breeder, but I guess it would be fair to say that she was trading on the 'cutesy' labradoodle name as the pups were marketed as such...

Be interested to see what you think :)
 
I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but it appears that this is an example of pretty responsible breeding, so I wouldn't have a problem with it. The other thing I would want to see would be for the breeder to be picky about which homes the pups went to, to try and ensure the best fit between dog and owner.

*Awaits flood of posts about how dreadful I am*:p
 
Spudlet said:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but it appears that this is an example of pretty responsible breeding, so I wouldn't have a problem with it. The other thing I would want to see would be for the breeder to be picky about which homes the pups went to, to try and ensure the best fit between dog and owner.

*Awaits flood of posts about how dreadful I am*:p
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Lol - thanks Spudlet! :D Aunt did get interviewed, and grilled about her lifestyle etc :)
 
Well in that case, I wouldn't have a problem. I know you could ask what is the purpose of this type of dog, but then you could say that about many pedigree breeds as well - I am thinking of toy breeds as examples although of course there are many other breeds that are nowadays very far removed from their original working purposes, if indeed they ever had one. Their sole purpose is to be a pet and if that's what someone wants then fine, as long as they get one from a responsible breeder. In my opinion at least.

Although natch the best place to get such a dog is a rescue centre;), but then there are sometimes reasons why someone cannot do this, be that rescue policy or something else. :)
 
Yep, I don't really get the 'no purpose' agrument either, as there is essentially no 'purpose' to many many toy or utility breeds, and the show variants of many working-type dogs would not be up to the job that they were originally intended for, so they serve little 'purpose' either.

I understand the rescue arguments but, as you say, it's not for everyone.
 
Broodle said:
So, been musing about all this... Just wondering whether you anti cross people have any issue with the breeding of my aunt's labradoodle (F1 hybrid). Was talking to her last night and she explained that the breeder of her dog had proof of low hip scores for both parents and proof of some other health screening (sorry, not sure what as was a few years ago and aunt can't remember exactly). The breeder also provided paperwork to the effect that she will take the dog back if my aunt ever needs to rehome, and will also either take the dog back or provide a refund of purchase price if the dog is found to have some sort of congenital/inherited health problem (not sure of exact wording, but you get the picture). the breeder has also kept in touch and taken an interest in the dog's upbringing.

So, this was no back yard breeder, but I guess it would be fair to say that she was trading on the 'cutesy' labradoodle name as the pups were marketed as such...

Be interested to see what you think :)
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It's certainly a step in the right direction, but I'm sure most "serious" breeders would agree it's not all there is in breeding. It's really good that they're offering guarantees, have health screened and so forth - but that doesn't meant that THOSE two dogs (dog and bitch) were right for breeding to one another.

I won't name names, but a breeder I know has a current top stud in her breed. She would say "Just because he's a top stud doesn't mean it's right to go to any old bitch - no matter HOW good she is. It's got to be RIGHT crossing." She's said this to many a time with regard to breeding (on the occasion that we chat about breeding).

And even with show results/working results and temperament issues considered, it's STILL difficult to know which is best. So take in to account a relatively "unknown" set of dogs and how they're going to cross to get a "new" crossing, unless the breeder is an expert on conformation, temperament etc., it's a mine-field of potential problems.

The 'doodle moniker is just the smallest part of what I dislike about DD's. So to me, if all the criteria have been met for responsible breeding, confo/temperment/future of the litters is considered carefully, then who am I to moan? LOL
 
I dont have a problem either with responsible breeding which this appears to be but the cynic in me is asking what was the purpose of this cross breed. I cant help thinking someone is jumping on the band wagon for the next new thing and charging a fortune for it. Most of these dogs are costing more than the pure bred mother & father and therein lies the problem.

I applaud the breeder of the dog for being responsible but am not happy about the cross. Ive seen quite a few and a lot are being sold on the misconception that they are non shedding and suitable for allergy sufferers which they are not.

For me personally I like a dog to have a purpose and be able to do the job they were originaly bred for hence having Dobermanns & a Lancashire Heeler.
 
Dobiegirl said:
I dont have a problem either with responsible breeding which this appears to be but the cynic in me is asking what was the purpose of this cross breed. I cant help thinking someone is jumping on the band wagon for the next new thing and charging a fortune for it. Most of these dogs are costing more than the pure bred mother & father and therein lies the problem.

I applaud the breeder of the dog for being responsible but am not happy about the cross. Ive seen quite a few and a lot are being sold on the misconception that they are non shedding and suitable for allergy sufferers which they are not.

For me personally I like a dog to have a purpose and be able to do the job they were originaly bred for hence having Dobermanns & a Lancashire Heeler.
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The breeder in this case did not make any claims about non-shedding coats or allergies.

So (serious question!), are you anti (as in actively opposed to, rather than wouldn't want to own) non-purpose pedigree dogs such as toy breeds, lap dogs etc?

The 'purpose' of this parcticular breeding was to produce nice pet dogs for pet homes.

ETS - I really don't know what my aunt paid, but what does it matter if she was willing and able to pay it? If your argument is that the high prices have encouraged the backyard breeders to get in on the action, well that's not the fault of the responsible breeders - they're just charging what people are willing to pay at the end of the day...
 
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