Thermal Imaging anyone....

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ldlp111

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used it? and this company?

http://www.veterinary-thermal-imaging.com/
I am wondering whether to try it on my mare as she has always suffered from bad problems. I have changed saddles several times and regularly have her back checked, but still picking up issues from around wither and where saddle sits. So I am wondering whether this kind of check might prove useful?

Any thoughts or opinions welcome

:)
 
i used it on my dog (see my thread fo rpics/report)!

I will be using it on my horse next year (jan/feb)



highly reccomend, non invasive - really good idea :)
 
Just wanted to add that she has had vet check her back yet, I will be getting it checked when she has her jab in Dec but was wondering whether thermal imaging would be a good place to start. Could also get saddle fitting checked as well.
 
If I had it done and then they found a potential problem can they roughly workout what it could be, also would my vets use it as a guide? I assume the cost would be £50 and then travel charge on top?

:)
 
they will tell you the area there is a problem.... then send ti to your vets for further investigation :)

e.g my dog - they found heat on her hips/paws and back (we knew about the first 2) so it was good to have it confirmed again.

Id reccomend it before calling the vet - as if they find nothing then no issue/vets fees!

My dog was £106 inc travel (was 2 hours away tho)!

:)
 
I have them coming to my yard tomorrow morning. There was a post on facebook last week that offered a free back and saddle scan if you could organise 5 people that were interested to watch. I will have to pay travel costs which because they are quite close to me should only be about £14.
I have had a couple of concerns about my saddle fit of late although a saddle fitter/saddle couldn't find anything untoward so I'm very interested in what the scan will (or hopefully won't find) I will happily report back tomorrow if anyone is interested :-)
 
Maesfen said:
Have you looked at this, it's very impressive and has had some very good results? http://www.equiscan.co.uk/
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I went to a demo by them recently and it was really facinating. If they were nearer to me I would have them out in a flash. They took pictures of the horse before riding, then in it's usual saddle and then in a different saddle. The difference in the images even to the untrained eye were clear to see. They use Vets to analyse the images and you get a full report afterwards. I think it is a great non invasive treatment that can show up many things without having to resort to x rays or MRI or such like and also much less traumatic for the horse.

They also do breast screening for humans which can detect changes in tisssue up to 10 yrs before a mammogram can!!! Something I find really amazing.

I am nothing to do with the company just an interested horse owner.
 
Nickles1973 said:
I have them coming to my yard tomorrow morning. There was a post on facebook last week that offered a free back and saddle scan if you could organise 5 people that were interested to watch. I will have to pay travel costs which because they are quite close to me should only be about £14.
I have had a couple of concerns about my saddle fit of late although a saddle fitter/saddle couldn't find anything untoward so I'm very interested in what the scan will (or hopefully won't find) I will happily report back tomorrow if anyone is interested :-)
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Is that with the company I mentioned? Let me know how you do and if they are still offering that, I'm sure I could find 5 people :)
 
If it was remotely useful do you not think the big vet hospitals would be using it? No more than a 'toy' that might hit lucky. Get your horse properly investigated don't faff around with this.
 
It is brillient - we have been using it in NZ for about 18 years. A friend of mine worked in one of the big power companies and they used thermal imaging to detect problems in electrical fittings. He arranged for it to be hires out, along with an operator and camera man.

One great success was a really good racehorse that would be intermitantly unsound. X Ray had found nothing, thermal imaging found a hot spot in one knee which turned out to b e a joint mouse, once removed the horse stayed sound.

I've used it many times on horses with sore backs or a history of poor performance. It pin points the area of inflamtion, youo could either get a video of the examination or a picture of the area that was a problem. Either way you could then go to the vet with more information.

A few years ago at HOY in NZ one thermal imaging company scanned the riders saddle after work and you could then see exactly how your saddle was fitting.

The pic below was of one of our school horses that would come in unlevel at times.

ThermographicImages-1.jpg
 
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Iv used it with very good results and it's not faffing about as susieT puts it, maybe when your at your wits end and after hundreds or thousands off £ spend with no answers and you have your answer within 5 mins off thermal imageing you may not find it a faff!!!
One thing I did find interesting recently though was after a chat with my back person who has done her training on thermal imageing and she said thermal imageing should be carried out in a temp controlled room not in a stable where any temp difference such as a hot spot from the sun making a difference. Would be interested in other peoples views on this as it makes sence!!
But. I have used it with great results
 
Oh forgot to add susieT the vets do use it, it was a equine vet who is the vet on call at the big race meets who suggested it to me with good results, maybe some people prefer to scan, x ray, nerve block etc with a big bill and maybe taken for a ride!!! Cost me £80 for mine and all I needed than was a x ray to confirm, far cheap than what my vets wanted to do.
 
Of course changes on xray quite often dont actually fit with the lameness, it's nerve blocks you would then need to see if that was the area causing the lameness assuming the horse is not needle shy.
Yes, vets do use it but the big fancy hospitals who are top of their league, I haven't heard using it.
What did you have diagnosed withi t thatsmygirl?
 
We had 1 horse with kissing spine, which the vets wanted to x rays his legs as he was on and off lame and never thought about his back, I went for thermal imageing and his legs had no problems at all it was all in his back which would off cost a lot more money if I had gone down the vets route first.
And a horse again lame on and off and after x rays on the 2 legs which vet thinks was the prob and a lot off money later and still a lame horse I had thermal imageing done again, the horse actually had problems in all four fetlocks, 1 hock and in his spine, ( djd) so I doubt very much the vet would off got to the bottom off that horse with all the probs. He's now sound but worked out cheaper as I could give the vets the pics and we than treated those areas.
I will use it as first port off call on any lameness issues again and pass the pics to the vets
 
SusieT said:
If it was remotely useful do you not think the big vet hospitals would be using it? No more than a 'toy' that might hit lucky. Get your horse properly investigated don't faff around with this.
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Why if this is so amazing dont ALL vets use this as the first tool to diagnos with? Seeing as it is so easy and fairly cheap to use?
 
I wish I'd used thermal imaging before sending my horse for a scintigraphy scan. It cost me £3000 to find out that my horse has navicular in both front feet - even though my own vet had x-rayed them 3 weeks earlier and said that she didn't have navicular ( I took her to the vet specifically because she had intermittent front limb lameness and I wanted to know if she had navicular so requested x-rays exactly for this condition!!).....and the bone spavin that he found wasn't actually causing the hind limb lameness, it was the proximal suspensory ligament.....surely he should have found that.....it shouldn't have cost £3000 to find it. If there are any future problems, I would opt for thermal imaging first, every time. Oh and I have now changed my vets surgery.....
 
I had mine scanned a few weeks ago, not for any particular issue but just to check him. It was very interesting, and it picked up where his saddle had slipped the day before - there was a red bit right where it ended up sitting across his spine. Very interesting indeed, and worth the money. If he ever has anything unexplained I will be having him imaged first before any other expensive diagnostics.
 
Seems to me that you already know which area the problem is in?

I had it done once, on 2 horses, recommendation was to get vet out immediately as it showed hot patches along the back. Vet laughed and told me she would be very concerned if there was no heat in those areas as the horse would most likely be dead at that point! :D

Good for certain things like saddle fitting I think but as far finding an actual physical problem goes, try the vet, try a physio, try a chiro, try a different vet if necessary, and don't let them tell you that there is nothing wrong with your horse when you know there is.
 
Delta99 the hot patches in my horses back was taken seriously by my vet who x rayed and kissing spine was found. If my vet had laughted I would off been disgusted with them. Many race horse trainers are now useing it to great effect.
 
SusieT said:
If it was remotely useful do you not think the big vet hospitals would be using it? No more than a 'toy' that might hit lucky. Get your horse properly investigated don't faff around with this.
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I agree with the comments above.

I went to a lecture on back and lameness issues at Langford last month; the vet giving the lecture specialises in this area. Her comments were somewhat disparaging regarding Thermal Imaging.
 
thatsmygirl said:
Delta99 the hot patches in my horses back was taken seriously by my vet who x rayed and kissing spine was found. If my vet had laughted I would off been disgusted with them. Many race horse trainers are now useing it to great effect.
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The horse in question is in fact an ex racehorse and is competing at medium, working at adv medium at home with no further investigation and no issues ever present. The heat was along the spine which as the vet told me would be caused by circulation, ie no heat = no blood flow = dead horse.

I only had the ex racer thermal imaged as something was wrong with my warmblood and I had tried everything else without finding anything. Thermal imaging person said warmblood was perfectly fine. The 4th vet who looked at this horse finally found the problem: wobblers!! So, a long way from 'fine'!

So, to emphasise again, based on thermal imaging I was told that the horse with a very serious condition was 'fine' and the one who has absolutely NOTHING wrong with him needed immediate veterinary attention!

So no, it would not be my first choice for investigating a problem and if you do it, please have it done by a vet as anyone can buy a thermal camera but most likely lacks the training, experience and qualifications to interpret the pictures.
 
NeilM said:
I agree with the comments above.

I went to a lecture on back and lameness issues at Langford last month; the vet giving the lecture specialises in this area. Her comments were somewhat disparaging regarding Thermal Imaging.
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I bet her comments were disparaging - it's far far cheaper than any vets investigation so doesn't bring them them thousands of pounds in!
 
Would thermal imageing pick up on wobblers? I'm not sure it would. i know when I worked in racing the horse we had with wobblers was tested by simply ground tests which picked it up.
 
Xrays often required to diagnose wobblers. I have always found vets embrace good diagnostic tools regardless of cost. Shockingly they are not all out to steal money...,If you feel your vet is change!
 
SusieT said:
If it was remotely useful do you not think the big vet hospitals would be using it? No more than a 'toy' that might hit lucky. Get your horse properly investigated don't faff around with this.
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Guess you've never used it? - the same thing was said about equine chiropractors many years ago - yet I remember the first time I used one for my horse was in the late 70's. Many vets then did not believe in it - sometimes they don't want to progress or give modern treatments a try.

I remeber years ago telling my doctor that I was going to a chiro for my back - his comment was "Well you'll be wasting your money there" When I told him I'd been painfree since my first visit after 15 years of taking Paracetamol - his treatment - he was quite apologetic.

It is a really excellent method for detecting the source spot of the pain or lameness. Work with the result means saving money on vet care and giving your horse the chance to become pain free faster.
 
Read the website, particularly the bit about the diagnostics side. Nothing conclusive said. All about how it 'could' help i.e they have no evidence of it working and can't say it will diagnose anything. A thorough exam and nerve blocks would be imo far more likely to find the source of pain.
 
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