They are aren't they..??? :(

SatansLittleHelper

SatansLittleHelper

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These have been bothering me for a while now on my 5 year old IDx gelding. The big lump is the size of a pound coin, maybe slightly bigger. The ones on his sheath are smaller than peas. They are sarcoids aren't they..??? :(
The vet saw the bigger one a while ago and said to leave alone. They dont seem to bother him as such but the ones on his sheath have only come up in the last 12 months. There is also a flat scaley bit about ten pence piece sized on his inner thigh. They are dry and crusty looking with no weeping and dont interfere with his tack. Im going to get the vet to have a proper look tomorrow as Im just constantly worrying about it all.

What do you guys think..?? Anyone here have any experiences with them.??
 
If you are using photobucket - it would be worth clicking on the link in my siggy as PB have changed their settings and now the photos show as links rather than photos. It's easy to sort out and then you can copy&paste the IMG code into the H&H reply box and the photo should come up once you post the reply. :)
 
Yup, need a piccie. Our local vet is doing "sarcoid amnesty day" next week - a freebie unless they need treatment, so I'm wheeling Shy in to check on what I think is a wart. Urgh !
 
Sarcoids are caused by flies, usually treatable or can be shelled, if melanoma which you will only find out with a biopsy then dont worry, unless showing or horse becomes ill.

I dont know why people make such an issue about sarcoids because if they were malignant and cancerous inside the body it would be too late to do anything anyway. lots of horses get stomach tumours which is part of the colic which kills then
 
why worry about sarcoids? oh maybe because they can spontaneously do this, what an odd comment to make? I think it is also important not to confuse them with other types of cell proliferation/cancers. They are also not caused by flies.. there is some possible evidence they can be transferred between horses by flies but research is ongoing and noone really knows :

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I also have no idea why you would not worry about a melanoma? but allow cell spread to the point your horse becomes ill?? Oh and sarcoids explicitly do not spread to other internal organs so I don't understand the stomach cancer comment?

OP hopefully your vet will be able to put your mind at rest either way. Unless he has dealt with a lot himself do ask him to send photos to liverpool for their assessment too (though they are being a bit slow atm!)
 
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Our gelding has the pea type one on his sheath, and a couple of tiny flat ones on his face. He has never had much issue with them. You really have to keep the flies off them. We use an antibacterial salve that has citronella in it, and just daub it liberally on them. I really wouldn't worry too much unless it is growing or bleeding, or affects where tack goes. Have a look at the toothpaste threads in the Vet section perhaps.
 
They're not caused by flies but probably by the bovine papilloma virus which can be spread by flies. A few tumours of the superficial type are unlikely to affect the horse but there are some that are affected by even a single tumour.

There are different types of sarcoids, six major types in fact, one of which is malignant, although thankfully rare.
 
putasocinit said:
I dont know why people make such an issue about sarcoids because if they were malignant and cancerous inside the body it would be too late to do anything anyway. lots of horses get stomach tumours which is part of the colic which kills then
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Having known more than one horse pts due to sarcoids and sarcoids only, I'd be devastated if my horse has them :(
 
putasocinit said:
Sarcoids are caused by flies, usually treatable or can be shelled, if melanoma which you will only find out with a biopsy then dont worry, unless showing or horse becomes ill.
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seriously? ever lost a young horse to melanoma? seen huge, ulcerating sarcoids or melanoma? nah, just forget about it-no need to worry. good grief.

OP have a good chat with your vet, ask lots of questions and be satisfied that they are up to date with their information.
 
Ester you have taken my post completely the wrong way, i did not say that one must not care about sarcoids/melanomas, but people worry about them when they are cery small and wont buy a horse because of them, it doesnt mean tney will turn into big supturing tumours, some can turn the way your picture shows and some dont, how the hell would be know if hindsight was a wonderful thing, and yes if it got cancer to the extent that it was diagnosed then You would do something about it, but 9/10 times we dont even know the cancer is there until the horse is ill. If we knew a horse would never get colic it would go to the highest bidder and pay for an island

Please dont read what is not there, but look between the lines, otherwise i would have to right an essay to get the whole message across. Hope the horsey survived.

So flies are involved in the spread of them, so landing on another horse with the contagious virus whatever it is on the flies legs, is being carried by the flies, so the fly is involved, but its not involved, maybe it drops a piece of the whatever from a dizzy height but never lands on the horse, makes you wonder why some horse owners dont use fly repellant on their horses, maybe they are not worried about sarcoids
 
they were stock pictures...
I would not buy a horse with sarcoids.. why buy something likely to be a risk when you can actually see it? I just felt that this thread needed a bit of scientific accuracy added- and am sorry but involved and cause are completely different- particularly when we are talking about something so little understood currently.

OP I agree I would get the vet to check those out, particularly the belly/crusty one- if vet says still not worried re that one I would perhaps email your pic to liverpool myself ;) . As he is younger it is possible that the smaller ones on his sheath are milk warts- viral - there have been a couple of threads on them recently in the vet section.
 
I had a grey horse years ago who at 6 years old had the bleeding dangling mass off his sheath, sarcoids on his cheeks, thighs, underside of his neck and inner forearms. Vet advised me to leave them alone as removal may just cause them to come back. I tied a noose around the sheath one and squirted it daily with a dilute antiseptic till it dropped off and used cream for warts on cows udders on the rest. They all went, none came back and he died in his 20's. Recently I have had a welsh mare with a couple on her udder area and I used Camrosa with success too.
 
I found Liverpool very helpful when my boy had them. Never realised there were so many different types. I'm sure they would be happy to advise you and your vet.
 
putasocinit said:
Sarcoids are caused by flies, usually treatable or can be shelled, if melanoma which you will only find out with a biopsy then dont worry, unless showing or horse becomes ill.

I dont know why people make such an issue about sarcoids because if they were malignant and cancerous inside the body it would be too late to do anything anyway. lots of horses get stomach tumours which is part of the colic which kills then
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Absolutely 100% behind ester on this. I am sorry but there is no place in civil society to make such erroneous mass generalisations...and get it wrong. This is a matter concerning the health and wellbeing of a horse and...given that this is public forum, possibly other horses as well. Some people not knowing any better could believe what you are posting so, unless you are cautioning or really know what you are saying, better not to post.
 
I kind of know where putasocinit is coming from.
Lots of useful happy horses have them. I regard them as a management issue.
Horses get much more awful health problems.
Not every horse with a sarc is doomed. I speak from experience.
 
putasocinit said:
So flies are involved in the spread of them, so landing on another horse with the contagious virus whatever it is on the flies legs, is being carried by the flies, so the fly is involved, but its not involved, maybe it drops a piece of the whatever from a dizzy height but never lands on the horse, makes you wonder why some horse owners dont use fly repellant on their horses, maybe they are not worried about sarcoids
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Please note, this statement is not currently proven and therefore making such a statement is not productive. Many scientists are fond of saying that the plural of anecdote is not evidence and I think it's very important to understand this here...Sarcoids only occur on horses genetically predisposed to them. They are likely to appear on horses between the age of 3 and 9. If they haven't got them by then, they are highly unlikely to get them. Flies may be a vector in the spread of sarcoids- but thus far the statistical significance has only been related in the instance of the same animal - i.e. a horse with sarcoids may develop more as a result of flies. It should be noted that attempts to recreate contagion between horses, and donkeys - which are more prone to sarcoids, have thus far been unsuccessful. Yes, sarcoids off one horse have been mashed up in a petri dish and injected into others and so far, the dons have only managed to grow a wart or two that has subsequently disappeared.

Fly repellent, fly rugs and careful management, including using herbal supplements such as SARC-EX can be helpful in containing the spread. Sarc-ex has what scientists like to call a 50% chance of success - it will either work for your horse or it won't. They tend to appear on thinner areas of skin, and may run down where you can see blood vessels. Leading vets advise leaving small flat sarcoids well alone unless they suddenly proliferate. Nodular sarcoids can be tied off successfully as long as they have a root. There are various treatments, including Liverpool cream and bloodroot oil, that have shown significant success in ridding of the individual growth. The use of lasers to cut the offending growth off is increasing in popularity but you should be aware that this leaves a bit of an open wound and wounds are prime sites for sarcoid growth.

If you'd like any reference papers, please p.m. me.
 
hereshoping I think you put it better than me, thank you :).

Echobravo.. I do think the larger abnormal lesion is odd and having not been identified by the vet as anything else needs ruling out as a sarcoid if that makes sense. They can vary quite a lot and leave alone/keep an eye on for changes may well be the advice.
 
Having opinions that differ from the norm or commonly believed is fine. But making sweeping statements advising people to ignore something that has the potential to cause harm is woefully irresponsible.

Better to get a vet and be told they are not needed than listen to someone online, ignore the issue and cause health issues for your horse.
 
_GG_ said:
Having opinions that differ from the norm or commonly believed is fine. But making sweeping statements advising people to ignore something that has the potential to cause harm is woefully irresponsible.

Better to get a vet and be told they are not needed than listen to someone online, ignore the issue and cause health issues for your horse.
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Was this aimed at me? I completely agree with you. Sorry, I should have stated that you absolutely need your vet to confirm the types of sarcoid, and to provide an opinion on whether they should be treated. I was too busy being on my high horse about the flies thing. As you may know, I have had to leap through hoops of fire because someone on my yard decided that I couldn't bring my new horse because he has a few sarcoids on his sheath.
 
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No it wasn't Hereshoping :-)

It was putasockinits first post and a subsequent post about knowing why it was said. My opinions on the content are irrelevant, but such advice is imo irresponsible on an open forum.

Xx
 
Never underestimate sarcoids, horse had a couple, started treatment, few more arrived.....12 months later horse was PTS (long story)
As far as spread by flies, he was at a yard with 50+ horses & no others there have got any.
 
W1bbler I'm sorry about your horse , but equally my horse had sarcoids for years and died of old age after a long and happy life.
Must also add, yes get them checked out by a vet .
 
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Just an update to say that my vet has been out this morning and he definately has sarcoids :( He is keen for us to leave well alone at this point and see what happens. I have to photograph them monthly to keep a record in case they grow etc and then he can mail the guy at Liverpool.
A huge thank you to all that replied, Im so glad I asked the question..!!!
 
teabiscuit said:
I kind of know where putasocinit is coming from.
Lots of useful happy horses have them. I regard them as a management issue.
Horses get much more awful health problems.
Not every horse with a sarc is doomed. I speak from experience.
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They are a veterinary problem which you manage .
Not every horse with sarciods is doomed but some are if you buy a horse with sarcoids you must embrace that and be able to afford to treat them leaving them untreated is unacceptable in my book.
And please can I caution against camrosa or anything designed to promote healing on them
It's the last thing they need is anything which encourages cell production .
 
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