EdRyder
New User
Download a copy of The Hurt Locker and then tell the movie studio that 
Thieving Scumbag Facebook shoplifters- Rant follows
- Thread starter spidge
- Start date
fltogger
Member
varies hugely from teenagers up to mothers in their late 40s.
suggest that to the film and music industry would you, id be interested to hear what they say to that.
and as i said previously - THE PHOTOGRAPHER IS NOT THE ONE IN THE WRONG, THE PEOPLE STEALING THE IMAGES ARE.
next youll be saying that a burglar is entitled to the goods in a house if they manage to get into it..
wouldnt have a problem posting a link to a page with the image on, however as said above hotlinking is frowned upon by many websites (not just photographers) and many disable it due to it hammering traffic to webservers.
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
I don't want to be in the wrong. I buy pictures if I like them, but sometimes (and its nobodys fault), I look at the pictures and decide they are not worth buying. One event they didn't have any pictures of the horse at a fence, just cantering so I am not buying a picture of that.
I also never relised photgraphers make so little money, and I was talking to one the other day and was shocked how much the printer and the printer cartridges cost! In the future I will support the photgrapher by buying a picture if it nice
I also never relised photgraphers make so little money, and I was talking to one the other day and was shocked how much the printer and the printer cartridges cost! In the future I will support the photgrapher by buying a picture if it nice
fltogger
Member
I also never relised photgraphers make so little money, and I was talking to one the other day and was shocked how much the printer and the printer cartridges cost! In the future I will support the photgrapher by buying a picture if it nice
see now its comments like that i like to read, hopefully this thread has served a purpose
we spent a total of 34 hours shooting this weekend, we busted our behinds (still are busting our behinds sorting through 6-7k of photos) and had a larger initial outlay of costs than usual.. to see a large amount of those taken without permission would seriously dent our finances and/or make us reconcider covering equestrian events.
ch70
Member
Mike, I'm really not sure what planet in our solar system you live on, but I'm not convinced it's Earth. You are suggesting that as a race it is within our nature to steal? Well I hate to break that mould but I don't go around taking what is not mine, neither do my children. Why? because I had morals instilled in me as a child and I have done the same with my children as do the majority of people I would hope.
What a load of old tosh. I really can not comprehend the motivation behind any of your comments to be honest. I'm not sure whether you are simply trying to stir up emmotions or genuinely believe what you have written. Why are you so passionately defending the behaviour of these people?
It seems you are happy to completely ignore the numours statements on here about the "Legality" of copyright infringement (it is against the law plain and simple) and continue to believe in your mind that it is the photographers fault for putting the images online, something we have done to respond to the desires of our law abiding customers. Putting something in front of a persons nose does not give them the right to take it.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
Do you leave your house unlocked when you go out.I think not. If people are walking off with your posessions ,lock the door.
It truely doesnt matter if you are in the right. They will still bankrupt you if you let them. CH70,I am hardly defending the behaviour of these people,
(who incidently to a large part are minors)I am somthing you clearly are not.A realist. I know I am not going to change human nature so I would make it as hard as possible for someone to steal from me.If you choose to leave your posessions out in the street,why are you so surprised when people walk off with them.
fltogger
Member
burglars have picks for locks and bricks for glass.
would you please move on from securing the images rather than persuing those actually breaking the law.. short of phoning the heads of every operating system and asking them to remove the screenshot feature from their software we (the photographers) have done everything in our power in that regard.
unfortunately i dont have steve jobs (etc) direct dial..
mike weeks
Member
Actually I am probably doing more to adapt my business and help other photographers with their business than you will ever know. I did not dismiss everything out of hand, they were all considered replies with justifications about a market that I have a relatively good understanding about - I operate a business and if you had read the whole thread from where I joined you will see that I have actively discussed how we as photographers can improve (I never said I understood it all and I am happy to take on board good ideas), so I suggest that the only one made happy by complaining is facing you in the mirror. I will benefit from much of what I have read in this thread and will approach any changes with an appropiate attitude - its not about luck.
Mike
spidge
Well-Known Member
Well who would have thought that this thread would get to 400 contributions and nearly 20000 viewings. I hope it has achieved something in all manner of ways for a great deal of people, I know I shall reread this next week and digest the nuts and bolts of it to ascertain if there is anything further I can glean to implement in my own business operation.
My sincere thanks for all ( well most ;-) contributions ) and I guess this thread can now be laid to rest as it seems to have run out of steam
My sincere thanks for all ( well most ;-) contributions ) and I guess this thread can now be laid to rest as it seems to have run out of steam
MrFigjam
Well-Known Member
see now its comments like that i like to read, hopefully this thread has served a purpose
Yes, but the important part of that message is "if it is nice!"
If photographers produce nice pictures and products, people will buy them. (people will steal them too but that's another point)
The most important thing to every photographer should be to get the highest quality picture they can. The people who steal will always steal but at least if the people who don't normally buy, buy a couple of prints then it's worthwhile.
kit279
Well-Known Member
Alright, I'm going to have my say on this one too (albeit late to the party). Mike007 is being realistic - the people who copy and paste are by and large very young, very social media savvy and very unaware of things like having to pay the mortgage. It's a good thing that they learn the consequences of their actions. Rather like when you buy a £1 t-shirt from Poundland and are then surprised to find that it was made by child slaves somewhere horrendous. However, just as Tesco's factor in an inevitable degree of shoplifting into their accounts despite their security guards etc, the photographer is going to have to be realistic - no matter what you do, some people are going to pinch your images, watermark or not. The only way around this is making the image too blurry to be worth anything. FWIW, the best software I've seen is Imagepoint - you can see the photos enough to see whether you like them but the quality is too bad to make it possible to screen capture them.
I buy music from iTunes because it's 99p a track and it's unbelievably easy to click buy and have instantaneous gratification. I have probably spent about £100 over 12 months doing this off and on and I bet I'm not the only one. If I could do the same and have a nice copy of a photo for Facebook, I would do so - from my perspective, your sales would go up if you offered this. If the photo is really nice, I will buy a print for posterity regardless.
I buy music from iTunes because it's 99p a track and it's unbelievably easy to click buy and have instantaneous gratification. I have probably spent about £100 over 12 months doing this off and on and I bet I'm not the only one. If I could do the same and have a nice copy of a photo for Facebook, I would do so - from my perspective, your sales would go up if you offered this. If the photo is really nice, I will buy a print for posterity regardless.
spidge
Well-Known Member
The only way not get images images stolen is not to put them on tinternet in the first place, just as the only guaranteed way not to get pregnant etc. Hey but where's the fun in that?
Yes some people do have a price point at which they will buy. The consensus on here gathered from a recent thread I posted on this very subject was £3. Yes your right about the social media savvy, typically young etc. But one thing is very obvious to me. Most people know that it is wrong and illegal, without me having to point it out.
I have messaged several people via FB this week who have had anything from 20-100 of my images on their pages. None have denied it, protested or said they didn't realise it was wrong. All have been offered 10 images free if they agree to stop doing it in future. A couple have said they didn't realise how the images got on there ( no I'm sorry I don't know either). A couple even agreed to buy the images rather than remove them. One a livery yard owner, BSJA rider and dealer chose not to respond. I am sure FB will be more responsive.
We as photographers have to factor in these thefts. We need to decide what we consider to be acceptable. My web site sales are on a par with what I consider to be some exceptionally good photographers. Better even than a lot of other photographers. What I also know is that I have not sold several thousand images via my web site over the last year. Yet there appear to be that many out there that have been shoplifted from my web site. I am seeing the issue at all levels from social events, through pony club, unaffiliated, affiliated through to riding clubs and eventers. At all age groups, don't be persuaded that this is just a teenage thing. If we as photographers were deriving even a moderate income of £1 per image that is shoplifted I would be a lot happier. Right now I feel that some many riders are frankly just taking the p*ss out of photographers and treating them fairly poorly. How many times have my staff been asked " these pictures will be on the internet won't they?" Then the viewing stats show dozens of people spending time of the galleries but few sales.
The bottom line: tomorrows pony club event won't be on the internet, let's see what that does to onsite sales!
Yes some people do have a price point at which they will buy. The consensus on here gathered from a recent thread I posted on this very subject was £3. Yes your right about the social media savvy, typically young etc. But one thing is very obvious to me. Most people know that it is wrong and illegal, without me having to point it out.
I have messaged several people via FB this week who have had anything from 20-100 of my images on their pages. None have denied it, protested or said they didn't realise it was wrong. All have been offered 10 images free if they agree to stop doing it in future. A couple have said they didn't realise how the images got on there ( no I'm sorry I don't know either). A couple even agreed to buy the images rather than remove them. One a livery yard owner, BSJA rider and dealer chose not to respond. I am sure FB will be more responsive.
We as photographers have to factor in these thefts. We need to decide what we consider to be acceptable. My web site sales are on a par with what I consider to be some exceptionally good photographers. Better even than a lot of other photographers. What I also know is that I have not sold several thousand images via my web site over the last year. Yet there appear to be that many out there that have been shoplifted from my web site. I am seeing the issue at all levels from social events, through pony club, unaffiliated, affiliated through to riding clubs and eventers. At all age groups, don't be persuaded that this is just a teenage thing. If we as photographers were deriving even a moderate income of £1 per image that is shoplifted I would be a lot happier. Right now I feel that some many riders are frankly just taking the p*ss out of photographers and treating them fairly poorly. How many times have my staff been asked " these pictures will be on the internet won't they?" Then the viewing stats show dozens of people spending time of the galleries but few sales.
The bottom line: tomorrows pony club event won't be on the internet, let's see what that does to onsite sales!
mike weeks
Member
This is a subject that appears to be taking off all over;
There is Facebook page that has been created to highlight the problem of copyright theft by the scanning of images. The idea is it to try and get as many photographers as possible to join, so their friends will see the link, maybe view the page and realise that they could be breaking the law. Many people will scan images knowing they are breaking the law and won't care, but very many also believe because they have bought a picture they have bought the rights to do what they want with it. I'm just trying to think of a way to raise the public awareness.
Paul Rogers one of the countries most respected event photographers is trying to turn this into a national campaign to raise public awareness. Many photographers will be putting literature in bags or on stickers on the back of prints to try and raise awareness. Anyway if you would like to help please join the Facebook page, and if you would like to have a copy of the logo for your website just drop him an email at admin@pellier.co.uk
Please feel free to join if you wish
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=120466621333069&v=wall
Mike
There is Facebook page that has been created to highlight the problem of copyright theft by the scanning of images. The idea is it to try and get as many photographers as possible to join, so their friends will see the link, maybe view the page and realise that they could be breaking the law. Many people will scan images knowing they are breaking the law and won't care, but very many also believe because they have bought a picture they have bought the rights to do what they want with it. I'm just trying to think of a way to raise the public awareness.
Paul Rogers one of the countries most respected event photographers is trying to turn this into a national campaign to raise public awareness. Many photographers will be putting literature in bags or on stickers on the back of prints to try and raise awareness. Anyway if you would like to help please join the Facebook page, and if you would like to have a copy of the logo for your website just drop him an email at admin@pellier.co.uk
Please feel free to join if you wish
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=120466621333069&v=wall
Mike
TGM
Well-Known Member
Many of the competition venues have their own Facebook pages, so perhaps put the link on some of those to bring it to the attention of the competitors.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
" but very many also believe because they have bought a picture they have bought the rights to do what they want with it. I'm just trying to think of a way to raise the public awareness."
The great thing about a public awareness campaign is....that it raises public awareness. Unfortunately the public might just not agree with the position put forward. If as you suggest ,mike, a great number of people believe that if they have bought a picture ,they have bought the right to display it how they choose,including on the internet.I would suggest,that in addition there are also a great number of people who believe they cant,but consider this moraly wrong.If the public choose, the law will be changed.
The great thing about a public awareness campaign is....that it raises public awareness. Unfortunately the public might just not agree with the position put forward. If as you suggest ,mike, a great number of people believe that if they have bought a picture ,they have bought the right to display it how they choose,including on the internet.I would suggest,that in addition there are also a great number of people who believe they cant,but consider this moraly wrong.If the public choose, the law will be changed.
PaulSands
New User
Unfortunately for those in the know it is easy enough to bypass that bit of code
MegaBeast
Well-Known Member
Surely if they're not using it for financial gain then there's no need for photographers to get het up about it? Many have come on here saying they'd be happy for purchased images to be published on forums/facebook if people would just ask permission so why not simply change your copyright policy to include this? Fair enough have to pay/ask permission for it to be used in an advert.
MegaBeast
Well-Known Member
I put this on the other thread Spidge started but having not had a reply thought I'd put it on here as think it's a point that nobody has raised. I was think the other day about the old days of paper proofs and how back in the day you'd have paper proofs posted out to you after which the photographer lost control of the proof and people were free to show the proof to family, friends, pin on the wall in the tackroom/office etc and then buy any particularly good prints. This is similar to what's happening now with people liberating these little watermarked images from websites, it's just due to the web photographers can see the use people are making of these proofs, I honestly believe nothing has changed and you can make it totally impossible for people to get images off your websites but it won't increase/generate sales/revenue.
I freely admit I have liberated pro shots, but I also buy several shots from pretty much every show at great cost. Okay this doesn't give me the right to effectively steal but all I'm doing is all I would have done ten years ago with paper proofs. Ie had every shot of me in miniature with a watermark in my possession for my personal usage and buy the shots that I particularly like. Even if I couldn't get these small proofs I still wouldn't buy any more photos.
So in my mind you're barking up the wrong tree, yes it's wrong, but equally I believe the majority of those who take the images wouldn't buy them so you're not losing out, all you're doing is giving yourself a headache due to unnecessary worry. I truly believe that the lower sales you may be seeing are due to the advent of the digital age, both camcorders and stills, as any joe bloggs can now get a reasonable shot, maybe not an outstanding pro shot but adequate for their needs.
Just to clarify, by using "you" I don't mean you personally, but pro photographers in general.
I freely admit I have liberated pro shots, but I also buy several shots from pretty much every show at great cost. Okay this doesn't give me the right to effectively steal but all I'm doing is all I would have done ten years ago with paper proofs. Ie had every shot of me in miniature with a watermark in my possession for my personal usage and buy the shots that I particularly like. Even if I couldn't get these small proofs I still wouldn't buy any more photos.
So in my mind you're barking up the wrong tree, yes it's wrong, but equally I believe the majority of those who take the images wouldn't buy them so you're not losing out, all you're doing is giving yourself a headache due to unnecessary worry. I truly believe that the lower sales you may be seeing are due to the advent of the digital age, both camcorders and stills, as any joe bloggs can now get a reasonable shot, maybe not an outstanding pro shot but adequate for their needs.
Just to clarify, by using "you" I don't mean you personally, but pro photographers in general.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
Valid points megabeast,did yo* read oldgits post on the other thread. It was very interesting . I wo*ld be an absol*te "m*g " for a *d of pi*kys for £50,with the right to show them to my friends via the internet.I wo*ld go intending to b*y one ,possibly two prints,and *ome away £50 lighter,*l*t*hing my *D .
Mike007
Well-Known Member
What the hell has happend to my last post ,all the u,s have been censored!!!
OldGit
Well-Known Member
I purchase the shots I like, sometimes (this season not so often) it's difficult to choose a couple of shots, that will cost you £30. I always ask if it's ok to post on facebook/HHO and to date it's not been a problem. I have also had a couple of pro shots used on a commercial site, but put the two parties in contact to ensure that it was all above board.
I can understand pros getting upset with non purchased images being lifted, but I think a purchased scanned image is a different kettle of fish. At Gatcombe this year Stephen Sparkes took a load of photos that I liked, so difficult to choose 3or 4, however for £50 I had 29 high res images with written permission for printing and for online forums.
I can understand pros getting upset with non purchased images being lifted, but I think a purchased scanned image is a different kettle of fish. At Gatcombe this year Stephen Sparkes took a load of photos that I liked, so difficult to choose 3or 4, however for £50 I had 29 high res images with written permission for printing and for online forums.
Godknows
Well-Known Member
Mike007
Well-Known Member
I think you've just had one too many and lost where you are putting your fingers
Hah ,me, touch type .You must be joking! Standard .two finger typing. Comes out the same drunk or sober.
George Michie
Well-Known Member
I agree, and that's why my T&C's are worded..
Going beyond that I actually put a couple of polls on my site.
The first asked if people wanted prints or downloads, the answer is both (exactly 50/50)
Following that I asked what size of download people wanted, facebook size, A4 size or full size. Most popular were facebook and A4. Guess where I'm going if I can resolve the webspace issue
I also offered facebook images from my last event at a flat £2 with no watermark on them. Results have been interesting.
1. Some people still lifted them onto their facebook, seems like £2 still isn't cheap enough.
2. Some people who had previously lifted them actually bought
3. Some people bought prints AND the facebook images, that was a surprise
Mike007
Well-Known Member
Sounds like some serious market research going on at last.
spidge
Well-Known Member
Mike007 the bulk of my posts on here have been exactly that, to engage with riders, guage their opinions etc. I have offered USB memory sticks with hi-res images available to riders for nearly 2 years now, several riders have informal deals with me that allows them to select 20 images over the course of the year and receive 20 high res images for £50. £3 facebook images can be purchased from any of my web galleries for the entire 2010 year, a recent retrospective change of pricing due to feedback received. My web site has an offer running whereby anyone that agrees to discontinue the shoplifting of screenprinted images can choose 10 FB suitable images of their choice.
Other photographers include George have seen this thread and find that it resonates with their own experience. Many are introducing changes into their own business to better align with their customers wish lists but at a price model that fits both parties. Without this exchange of views caused by my "rant" perhaps none of this may have happened. I deliberately labelled my initial posting on this thread as a rant with an eyecatching title. The internet theft of images from photographers is a serious issue and of concern not only to the photographers themselves but to mnay thousands of riders up and down this country who genuinely value the skill, expertise, services and products that they offer. What this thread was about was to highlight the issue of the not inconsiderable minority who regard these galleries as fair game to do whatever they want with. Go back to your bread roll analogy, well actually my restaurant is offering good products, with quick service at reasonable prices. Yet I am still seeing more bread rolls stolen than I am selling.
Within my own business I am taking steps to address this. A professional rider whom I messaged yesterday via FB replied as follows:
"Thank you for your email. I totally understand your point and I am in the wrong. Some of the images I have purchased and have framed at home but as I keep in touch with family abroad I have put ones with the copy right across on fb to show them what I have been doing. I honestly didnt realise how bad this was as it is kind of still advertising for you but do understand now.
I have removed the albums for now and will purchase some of the images as you suggested for £3/£5 which is a great idea to prevent this type of thing. Can I get these from your website?
Please do accept my apologies."
Hopefully I have now reached a mutual point with this rider that we are happy with. So within my own business and the events that I cover I will continue to engage with riders, I will take further steps to protect my livelihood and I will look at introducing new workflows.
Other photographers include George have seen this thread and find that it resonates with their own experience. Many are introducing changes into their own business to better align with their customers wish lists but at a price model that fits both parties. Without this exchange of views caused by my "rant" perhaps none of this may have happened. I deliberately labelled my initial posting on this thread as a rant with an eyecatching title. The internet theft of images from photographers is a serious issue and of concern not only to the photographers themselves but to mnay thousands of riders up and down this country who genuinely value the skill, expertise, services and products that they offer. What this thread was about was to highlight the issue of the not inconsiderable minority who regard these galleries as fair game to do whatever they want with. Go back to your bread roll analogy, well actually my restaurant is offering good products, with quick service at reasonable prices. Yet I am still seeing more bread rolls stolen than I am selling.
Within my own business I am taking steps to address this. A professional rider whom I messaged yesterday via FB replied as follows:
"Thank you for your email. I totally understand your point and I am in the wrong. Some of the images I have purchased and have framed at home but as I keep in touch with family abroad I have put ones with the copy right across on fb to show them what I have been doing. I honestly didnt realise how bad this was as it is kind of still advertising for you but do understand now.
I have removed the albums for now and will purchase some of the images as you suggested for £3/£5 which is a great idea to prevent this type of thing. Can I get these from your website?
Please do accept my apologies."
Hopefully I have now reached a mutual point with this rider that we are happy with. So within my own business and the events that I cover I will continue to engage with riders, I will take further steps to protect my livelihood and I will look at introducing new workflows.
MegaBeast
Well-Known Member
As I said above but seems to have been ignored is I truly don't think this is the case. Think back to the days of paper proofs which photographers posted out to people. Every proof certainly didn't represent a sale and surely this is a similar scenrio to what's happening now, its just that with the digital age you can see the use people make of these "proofs". Back in the day once you had your proofs you'd maybe order one or two of the best ones but I know plenty of people who'd keep the little images with watermarks to show people, pin up in their offices/tackrooms etc so is this really any different from what's happening now?
I will admit that I have liberated photos from websites, but I can honestly say that I've never done it at the expense of a sale. I tend to buy one or two (often three because of package details!) from pretty much every show but it's nice to see the photos of the often "not so good" moments so you can track progress. Call me a thief if you like, but I haven't actually stolen any of your revenue/sales as I have still bought ALL the pics that I particularly like.
I applaud your efforts with changing your pricing structure, I think it's excellent and wish the togs at the shows I go to would do similar. But I think you're barking up the wrong tree with trying to make your website too inpenetrable as I don't think it will gain you any sales. All most people are doing is creating their own paper proofs like what you woul have happily posted out to them ten or so years ago.
NB by the use of you I'm refering to photographers in general and not you specifically
spidge
Well-Known Member
Megabeast I refer you to this answer that I posted on another thread in case you had not seen this. Who knows you may be right!
On Tuesday I did a bog standard BSJA event at a local venue. My initial costs involve towing my trailer to the venue, fuel to run my generator, rent to the venue and staff and print costs. At the end of a 10 hour day including travelling, setup and photography I then return home to create the web gallery and upload it to my web site. Call it a 12 hour day. By 8am Wednesday morning a rider who was at the event and who did not purchase pictures or jpegs that were available to view and buy on the Tuesday, has assiduously been onto my web site and screen printed 8 images that she has added to her facebook photoalbums for all her friends to see. This is to add to the collection of about 60 other images that she has of mine. Indeed she likes one of the new images so much that she chooses to use it as her new Facebook profile picture. This in spite of the fact that this image includes the text "IMAGE STOLEN FROM:" my web site address, the date and venue and copyright information.
I have posted this message to her:
I recently came across your facebook pages and am pleased to see you like my pictures enough to put them on your Facebook page.
Forgive me if you have actually purchased these pictures whilst onsite at a show, but I noticed that you are using copyrighted images of mine. Personally I think that is a bit naughty. You are in breach of copyright but I hope that by speaking to you this way we can understand each others position.
I dont know if you are aware but we have recently starting offering a new product to cater for this sort of market. It is a reduced resolution, discreetly watermarked image or unwatermarked image for £3 and £5 respectively. You are able to purchase these for any image on our website going back to the beginning of the year 2010.
Please either arrange to purchase these images or remove them from your Facebook page. Honestly they look so much better without that copyright across the middle. I hope you understand my position and you are welcome to speak to me about it by email or on the phone.
Kind regards
As yet I have had no response. There are several possible actions I can now take of course, including doing nothing. Does this illustrate the extent of the problem we are facing. I don't believe for a minute that this was the only rider that would have harvested my images from that event. As I have said before I don't think cost is the issue, it is about a particular mindset that regards it is as acceptable.
On Tuesday I did a bog standard BSJA event at a local venue. My initial costs involve towing my trailer to the venue, fuel to run my generator, rent to the venue and staff and print costs. At the end of a 10 hour day including travelling, setup and photography I then return home to create the web gallery and upload it to my web site. Call it a 12 hour day. By 8am Wednesday morning a rider who was at the event and who did not purchase pictures or jpegs that were available to view and buy on the Tuesday, has assiduously been onto my web site and screen printed 8 images that she has added to her facebook photoalbums for all her friends to see. This is to add to the collection of about 60 other images that she has of mine. Indeed she likes one of the new images so much that she chooses to use it as her new Facebook profile picture. This in spite of the fact that this image includes the text "IMAGE STOLEN FROM:" my web site address, the date and venue and copyright information.
I have posted this message to her:
I recently came across your facebook pages and am pleased to see you like my pictures enough to put them on your Facebook page.
Forgive me if you have actually purchased these pictures whilst onsite at a show, but I noticed that you are using copyrighted images of mine. Personally I think that is a bit naughty. You are in breach of copyright but I hope that by speaking to you this way we can understand each others position.
I dont know if you are aware but we have recently starting offering a new product to cater for this sort of market. It is a reduced resolution, discreetly watermarked image or unwatermarked image for £3 and £5 respectively. You are able to purchase these for any image on our website going back to the beginning of the year 2010.
Please either arrange to purchase these images or remove them from your Facebook page. Honestly they look so much better without that copyright across the middle. I hope you understand my position and you are welcome to speak to me about it by email or on the phone.
Kind regards
As yet I have had no response. There are several possible actions I can now take of course, including doing nothing. Does this illustrate the extent of the problem we are facing. I don't believe for a minute that this was the only rider that would have harvested my images from that event. As I have said before I don't think cost is the issue, it is about a particular mindset that regards it is as acceptable.
Saratoga
Well-Known Member
I agree with a lot of this, i used to pin the proofs sent through to me on the wall of the tack room or kitchen with the watermark all over it...is that any different to putting the digital proofs on FB?
Again it didn't ever stop me purchasing the good ones, but the ones i wouldn't have bought i would still pin up. Is that stealing too?
MegaBeast
Well-Known Member
Don't think you've really answered my question (not that I really asked a specific one). You see, I don't liken it to thieving, more the creation of your own paper proofs which the photographer would have posted to you previously, therefore there is no or minimal loss of sales by this "thieving". Guess I can't really expect you to agree with me though! But thought it might put a different perspective on things.