Thieving Scumbag Facebook shoplifters- Rant follows

[George Michie]

I haven't even begun to read all this thread. But I presume that non of the 'togs on here have ever so much as pressed "record" off the radio (back in the day!), or burned a copy of a cd from a friend, illegally downloaded some music or a film or anything......

Thought not

I'd be pretty sure we all have at some time or another. I certainly remember, albeit vaguely , recording Radio Luxembourg. The others, no, I haven't actually but the principle is the same.

I guess the point you're making is it's now hypocritical to try to protect our own position having had no problem doing the same in the past and to an extent you're right.

However, if your employer came to you and said they wanted you to work for a month, gave you glowing reports all the way through, told you they'd pay at the end of the month but paid you off instead with no reimbursement you'd probably not be that happy

 

[FallenLightPhoto]

Trouble is can you invoice people?

Should I chase the people who pinched this pic (I don't sell pics, just the gear)

Stolen photoshopped image - emailed about it and they just photoshopped it more!

My original

Contact the hosting site if it is on a website you can prove your are the original owner of the photograph as you have the full image etc ... majority of professional web designers/hosters take copyright as seriously as the photographers!

 

[laa666]

I have nothing to do with your pics. I do buy pics of my horses at BSJA shows and my walls are covered in them to prove it. However I did not think about facebook and i will make sure in the future that only pics that we purchase or have taken myself find ther way on to my daughters FB. After reading your rants, I am going to buy some pics from weekend show, sorry wont help you. Question. Is it okay to put purchased pics on FB or is this against rules ?

 

[FallenLightPhoto]

I haven't even begun to read all this thread. But I presume that non of the 'togs on here have ever so much as pressed "record" off the radio (back in the day!), or burned a copy of a cd from a friend, illegally downloaded some music or a film or anything......

Thought not

As I mentioned previously I ride and compete and yeah many moons ago I lifted the odd thumbnail off photographers sites etc and also purchased ALOT but NOW I wouldnt dream of it ... I now know how much hard work and how long the days are being an event photographer and its not just for that one day either its the prep work and the post production too sorting through and editing 1000's of photos etc

I'm sure I'm not alone as a horse rider when someone doesn't understand the reason we spend so much money on our horses and the amount of time and effort and sometimes grief we go through just for our love of horses etc? How many people have cringed and got annoyed when someone says "horse riding is easy, you just sit there!" or " horse riding isn't a sport" and things like that?

Now think of it from the photographers side who has a passion for taking good quality photos and producing them for customers ...

I'm sure a professional rider would not produce a horse for free, unless under special circumstances, seen as this is how they make a living too!?

If you don't like the photo you don't have to buy it, if you don't want a print or can't afford it, most togs are now providing FB images at low cost (this varies I know!) or just ask them, why steal it, esp when you know its wrong?

 

[FallenLightPhoto]

I have nothing to do with your pics. I do buy pics of my horses at BSJA shows and my walls are covered in them to prove it. However I did not think about facebook and i will make sure in the future that only pics that we purchase or have taken myself find ther way on to my daughters FB. After reading your rants, I am going to buy some pics from weekend show, sorry wont help you. Question. Is it okay to put purchased pics on FB or is this against rules ?

Technically and practically it is still copyright theft but I'm sure if you contact the photographer they would give you the thumbs up to putting em on FB with a credit to them or they might even send you a low res copy for free as you purchased a print! Each photographer is different so to be on the safe side and out of politeness just ask!

 

[SpottedCat]

I have to say I do think photographers need to move with the times - if I buy an album from iTunes I can burn up to (I think) 7 copies of it for my use. I can't play it commercially, but I can have a copy on my computer, one on my iPhone, one on my iPod, a CD for the car (if I needed one - my stereo bluetooths to the iPhone), a CD for the lorry, one for OHs car etc.

My feeling is that if I buy a print I could hang it anywhere I liked, and let anyone look at it - therefore I should reasonably be able to scan it in and post it online too. Realistically, once someone has bought a print, I really don't think photographers should be worrying about how I use it for my own personal use - which includes my FB site. There is no way I'll buy a print and a jpg....

I know the law, but realistically, the music industry has faced up to this, why can't photographers?

 

[Frances144]

I wouldn't have too much of a problem with someone purchasing a print off me and then using it for other things. Tbh, the quality they can achieve from a scanner is not going to be as good as the tiff it was printed from.

What I do have a real problem with is someone stealing it from my website, spending hours removing my deliberate large watermark and then boasting about it to their friends, showing the photo, on Facebook having paid nothing.

Considering a decent sized Facebook photo is £3, it is just theft, plain and simple. I have problems with that tbh.

 

[SpottedCat]

I wouldn't have too much of a problem with someone purchasing a print off me and then using it for other things. Tbh, the quality they can achieve from a scanner is not going to be as good as the tiff it was printed from.

What I do have a real problem with is someone stealing it from my website, spending hours removing my deliberate large watermark and then boasting about it to their friends, showing the photo, on Facebook having paid nothing.

Considering a decent sized Facebook photo is £3, it is just theft, plain and simple. I have problems with that tbh.

Quite agree with that - I don't want/need decent quality for FB - I'm just wanting to show everyone I have moments of not being a complete pleb

 

[fltogger]

I have to say I do think photographers need to move with the times - if I buy an album from iTunes I can burn up to (I think) 7 copies of it for my use. I can't play it commercially, but I can have a copy on my computer, one on my iPhone, one on my iPod, a CD for the car (if I needed one - my stereo bluetooths to the iPhone), a CD for the lorry, one for OHs car etc.

My feeling is that if I buy a print I could hang it anywhere I liked, and let anyone look at it - therefore I should reasonably be able to scan it in and post it online too. Realistically, once someone has bought a print, I really don't think photographers should be worrying about how I use it for my own personal use - which includes my FB site. There is no way I'll buy a print and a jpg....

I know the law, but realistically, the music industry has faced up to this, why can't photographers?

some photographers may be happy for you to do that but to assume you can do that without the say so of them would be a gross misjudgement..

has the music industry solved any of their issues with piracy though? last time i read about it they were still losing millions if not billions of pounds a year..

 

[FallenLightPhoto]

I wouldn't have too much of a problem with someone purchasing a print off me and then using it for other things. Tbh, the quality they can achieve from a scanner is not going to be as good as the tiff it was printed from.

What I do have a real problem with is someone stealing it from my website, spending hours removing my deliberate large watermark and then boasting about it to their friends, showing the photo, on Facebook having paid nothing.

Considering a decent sized Facebook photo is £3, it is just theft, plain and simple. I have problems with that tbh.

Totally agree feel this post is more aimed at the lifting from websites than about the purchased prints! Which I think is the main concern amongst photographers, although the actions after purchasing a print is still in question when it comes to "copyrights" but not as pressing!

As for the music industry moving with the times ... they are selling to a MUCH wider audience, 1000's + will be purchasing just one single song from iTunes and the likes, as photographers we are limited on selling the photo of rider and horse to pretty much just that one person, esp when it comes to event photography. And I wouldnt say photographers are not moving with the times seen as they provide jpeg images we provide a fb image upto a limited 7x5 jpeg image as well as prints with online purchasing and not just on the day from the field. Unlike music producers and artists we don't get paid to perform, we don't get royalties, and we provide almost a one to one service, potentially a one off photo!

 

[Mike007]

So let me get this straight,you photographers think its quite ok to create images of me and post them on the internet,without my permision. Yet you are squawking if I then create my own image of yours.It clearly isnt yours ,because a) the definition is entirely diferent, and b) mine does not have the writing across it that your copyright version has.

 

[fltogger]

Totally agree feel this post is more aimed at the lifting from websites than about the purchased prints! Which I think is the main concern amongst photographers, although the actions after purchasing a print is still in question when it comes to "copyrights" but not as pressing!

As for the music industry moving with the times ... they are selling to a MUCH wider audience, 1000's + will be purchasing just one single song from iTunes and the likes, as photographers we are limited on selling the photo of rider and horse to pretty much just that one person, esp when it comes to event photography. And I wouldnt say photographers are not moving with the times seen as they provide jpeg images we provide a fb image upto a limited 7x5 jpeg image as well as prints with online purchasing and not just on the day from the field. Unlike music producers and artists we don't get paid to perform, we don't get royalties, and we provide almost a one to one service, potentially a one off photo!

nail + head.

 

[fltogger]

So let me get this straight,you photographers think its quite ok to create images of me and post them on the internet,without my permision. Yet you are squawking if I then create my own image of yours.It clearly isnt yours ,because a) the definition is entirely diferent, and b) mine does not have the writing across it that your copyright version has.

legally we have the moral high ground lol

lets set a few things straight.. legally nobody needs permission to photograph somebody else. legally the owner of the image can do what they like with it (as long as its not character harming etc). generally a model release can be used for commercial work (i.e. - advertising) however legally they cannot be enforced in the UK.

legally you CANNOT take, reproduce or alter a photographers work.

you my friend are breaking the law not us.

 

[FallenLightPhoto]

So let me get this straight,you photographers think its quite ok to create images of me and post them on the internet,without my permision. Yet you are squawking if I then create my own image of yours.It clearly isnt yours ,because a) the definition is entirely diferent, and b) mine does not have the writing across it that your copyright version has.

As a rider/person you have the human right to ask us not to take any photos of you of which photographers do not have to oblige but I'd say 99.9% would due to welfare of horse and rider and just curtosy! We can/have the right to photograph anybody/anything on public property or if invited onto private with intent to photograph. A photograph, book, music, painting etc is owned and copyrighted by the original creator unless otherwise stated!

We are not as photographers stating a moral high ground just stating the law and trying to spread the word that this is hindering our business and the ability to provide a service thus bumping up our costs and prices!

Again you can request your photo is removed from a site but by law the owner of the photograph (of which is the creator) does not have to obide, but once again out of respect etc I think most photographers etc would oblidge.

On typing this starting to feel we actually respect the wishes of people more than they respect us or the service we have been ASKED to provide at events!?

 

[JazzmanII]

I cant be bothered to read this whole topic but
TBH... i think your new watermark is totally pathetic, unprofessional and outrageous. and if you want to gain more custom, instead of slating your customers on a public forum you should be alot more polite and respectful about the situation. yes people will take pictures, but whos gonna buy all the rubbish ones, lets face it out of the 5 or 6 taken there is only usually one of two worth buying, but people still like to have a copy of the rubbish ones too. whos to say you can put peoples pictures on the internet anyway. if you dont want it to happen, dont put them on the net, it happens in every industry, its not rocket science!

 

[fltogger]

whos to say you can put peoples pictures on the internet anyway.

um as above, the law (or lack of it saying we cant).

if you dont want it to happen, dont put them on the net, it happens in every industry, its not rocket science!

so the music industry should stop selling music because its too easy to copy? likewise we shouldnt have any more films made.. like i said earlier DO NOT punish the copyright owner because people are ripping us off..

 

[JazzmanII]

well tbh its your choice of job, so find a way to solve it if you dont like it.

but i think this post is totally unprofessional as is his new watermark and know full well now i wouldnt buy from him!!

 

[Zebedee]

had to go even further round houses but using similar route and about 3 mins from start to upload

IE. Allowed pop ups, & allowed access to clipboard. Right click & saved to desktop.
I am a totally computer numpty hence not posted here as I don't know how to do that, or how to edit it in anyway come to that !

 

[PrettyPiaffe]

I think the watermark you have put across your photographs is ridiculous and i certainly wouldn't buy a photograph from you if 5+ other photos you had taken of me had a watermark that stated my riding 'sucked'. I don't think that is going to gain you any custom at all.

Instead of ranting and raving all other forums and social networking sites calling people scumbags and thieves (probably customers), it would of been much more professional of you to have a friendly chat/ posted a notice on your website/facebook stating why you dont appreciate them copying and pasting the photos you have taken.

Like i said, i certainly wouldnt buy a photograph from someone who has splashed 'my riding sucks' all over photos they have taken of me.

I hope you are aware that all the ranting and name calling you have been doing is viewable by the general public and has probably done the opposite of what you intended and lost you customers rather than gained you some. In my opinion all of this is very unprofessional.

 

[Mike007]

legally we have the moral high ground lol

lets set a few things straight.. legally nobody needs permission to photograph somebody else. legally the owner of the image can do what they like with it (as long as its not character harming etc). .

And so at last we come to the crux of the matter. Your "(as long as its not character harming etc). "is covered under common law. You are acting as the sole arbiter of what you consider "not character harming etc"because once you have put these images on the internet ,YOU CAN NEVER RECOVER THEM.

 

[Rambo]

Okay, trying to return to something a little more constructive than 'name calling'....

As i've said before, you can never eradicate copyright theft.....where there is a will there is a way and all that...but you can make life as difficult as possible for those trying to do it.

My attempt number 2 at protecting the image was unfortunately rather flawed due to the changes i made from attempt number 1....so no prizes for those who managed to lift the image that time. I think this attempt should be more robust....please have a go at doctoring the image of Shane Breen on this page :-

http://www.krk.me.uk/Test3.html

 

[TGM]

And so at last we come to the crux of the matter. Your "(as long as its not character harming etc). "is covered under common law. You are acting as the sole arbiter of what you consider "not character harming etc"because once you have put these images on the internet ,YOU CAN NEVER RECOVER THEM.

If having photos of yourself on the Internet concerns you so much why do you not just ask the togs beforehand not to photograph you? As said above most will oblige.

 

[lizzie_liz]

To the photographers, have you conducted market research into what competitors want from the event photographer. Am thinking here size of photo, cost, print or jpeg image etc It seems that from this thread we all do appreciate you taking photos but maybe the products on offer are not what customers want. I know one company in south England produce
fridge magnets and keyrings for only a few pounds.

 

[fltogger]

If having photos of yourself on the Internet concerns you so much why do you not just ask the togs beforehand not to photograph you? As said above most will oblige.

exactly. to be honest i dont see what the problem is, we've been ASKED by the event organisers to provide a service to everyone attending.. the photos are of people competing in events not papp'd picking up a hooker..

i did (out of courtousy, not legal requirement) have a section on our website about removal of images if persons required. its NEVER had anyone use it and ive recently taken it off as it was a waste of space on the page.

and as ive been saying all along, rant at the people STEALING the photos not us making legitimate business..

and becides mike you havent answered my question on where you stand with the thousands of CCTV cameras in the country constantly taking your pictures. are you not concerned where they end up?

 

[measles]

I have to say I do think photographers need to move with the times - if I buy an album from iTunes I can burn up to (I think) 7 copies of it for my use. I can't play it commercially, but I can have a copy on my computer, one on my iPhone, one on my iPod, a CD for the car (if I needed one - my stereo bluetooths to the iPhone), a CD for the lorry, one for OHs car etc.

My feeling is that if I buy a print I could hang it anywhere I liked, and let anyone look at it - therefore I should reasonably be able to scan it in and post it online too. Realistically, once someone has bought a print, I really don't think photographers should be worrying about how I use it for my own personal use - which includes my FB site. There is no way I'll buy a print and a jpg....

I know the law, but realistically, the music industry has faced up to this, why can't photographers?

Totally agree with SpottedCat

 

[George Michie]

Okay, trying to return to something a little more constructive than 'name calling'....

As i've said before, you can never eradicate copyright theft.....where there is a will there is a way and all that...but you can make life as difficult as possible for those trying to do it.

My attempt number 2 at protecting the image was unfortunately rather flawed due to the changes i made from attempt number 1....so no prizes for those who managed to lift the image that time. I think this attempt should be more robust....please have a go at doctoring the image of Shane Breen on this page :-

there you go

 

[George Michie]

and becides mike you havent answered my question on where you stand with the thousands of CCTV cameras in the country constantly taking your pictures. are you not concerned where they end up?

Mike hasn't actually answered any questions, not just that one.

 

[Rambo]

there you go

Okay...thank you.

In order to help me eradicate the weakness, can you tell me exactly what you did / how you did it. What platform / sppecific browser and version you used.

I should say, the only way to improve this sort of technology is by trial and error. There are so many nuances of all the different browsers and operating systems that it is a bit of a nightmare lol!

 

[Admirable]

 

[Baileyhoss]

I did it to. Just used Print Screen then paste.