Things I can do with my stubborn 2 year old

E

ems_123

Member
Joined
14 September 2013
Messages
22
Visit site
What was everyone doing with their 2 year olds?

Henry has just turned 2 last month and so far is as good as gold and so laid back. At the moment he's competent in pretty much all the basics including in the following -

Leading/tied up
Bitted
Walks in hand
Farrier/vet
Bathed/general pampering
Traffic (only very quiet country lanes)
He lives out 24/7 but has been stabled a few times and is fine with that

Is there anything else I could be doing this summer? I.e long reigning?

He's a big lad and currently about 16.2 and already very filled out so due to his size I'm in the dilemma of wanting to get him used to various things now while he's not a giant monster but not wanting to overdo it and blow his brain - I've noticed he has a very short attention span, when I'm working with him max 10 minutes is enough then he just gets bored.

We intended to go to our first local show yesterday so spent Saturday bathing/plaiting/chalking etc only for him to point blank refuse to load in the morning - i had hired a very experienced recommended transporter in the area who said he's one of the worst he's had and we had to give up. He planted at the ramp and just would not budge and even lay on the floor at one point in protest. Problem is we don't have a trailer to practice with so does anyone have any recommendations with anything I can do to overcome this in other means? Obviously I will be looking to hire one for the day every now and again to practice but as I'm sure you can imagine the cost of that is going to add up quickly so it's not something I can afford to do weekly.

I've noticed he has this real stubborn streak where if he doesn't want to do something he will just plant and not budge- he almost goes into some sort of trance and looks as if he's falling asleep! Due to his size as well it works as I just can't budge him! It's happened a few times since I've bought him but never as bad as yesterday. Apart from that he's perfect, not spooky or flighty at all- he really does have the classic shire tempranent (he's shire x tb) and just isn't fazed by anything. I just don't want him to get into the habit of doing this as he's only getting bigger so if I dont nip this in the bud now I fear I'm going to have a problem! A few people have mentioned this behaviour is classic big horse problems!

Someone suggested practicing join up with him? Anyone got any other tips or training methods I can do with him?

Trying to get him on the trailer yesterday the transporter was using pressure and release method (putting pressure on him until he moved forward then releasing) but that just got him angry and didn't work at all. Food didn't work either or getting behind him so now I fear he's had a bad experience and his planting methods have worked for himI have only made the problem worse.

If anyone has any advice or similar experiences I'd love to hear them!

Sorry for long post!
 
I taught my filly to load as a yearling last year in my lorry.
First attempt we tried everything under the sun - Food, walking her in, company, shoving her bum, nicey nicey, slowly coaxing...
She also tried everything under the sun including throwing herself on the floor in a tantrum!
We had to give up due to lack of day light the first time.
I tried again a few weeks later, put her on a lunge line and stood at the top of the ramp. she could move side to side but not backwards, could sniff the ramp as much as she liked.
Eventually she got quite annoyed by having to stand there and pulled a foot up and pawed at the ramp (bouncing it!) so I knew she wasn't scared..
After about half an hour she got on of her own accord! She's been good to load since..

Not sure if you are trying to load in a trailer of lorry but given the size of him he might find a trailer quite claustrophobic, just a thought :)
 
Please do not think I am a horse basher, but I think he needs someone to rock his world and you are too nice to him. I have Highlands, usually from foals and they are pretty solid so you have to be very firm but fair, but they have to be slightly, not frightened but wary or they will walk all over you, literally and plant. You can not argue with them, so you have to make it more work or less actractive than eating.
The shire x that I had for a sort time was so well trained that my 12year old daughter could handle and ride him, but he was well aware that you could not tie him up, he would just break the rope or anything he was tied up to and then wander off to the nearest snack.I would hire a good sized 3.3 tonne lorry for a week, get yourself some good help and set out loads of time. Until then I would avoid the issue until your well prepared.
 
Thank you both for your replies! It's reassuring to hear you have had similar problems and overcome them, I came away yesterday feeling like I had a horse I'd never be able to take off the yard but in reflection I think the methods used and the fact we were on a time restraint yesterday just weren't the right way to go for him.

Honetpot, you have hit the nail on the head with the arguing thing. Everytime I have tried arguing with him I never win and it makes him worse and even more defiant. It just became a battle of wills yesterday between Henry and the transporter and I knew after just 10 minutes we weren't going to get him in. I think my approach is going to have to be making him want to do what I'm asking of him. Don't get me wrong I am firm with him and he usually has great manners, the only issue is his babyish ways seems a lot worse as he is like a fully grown horse and this stubbornness that he gets every now and again.

Going to have to look into the costs of hiring something for a week, I feel like this needs sorting ASAP as the more time that passes the worse it's going to be!

Also, the trailer being used yesterday was a Richardson supreme ultra so apparently bigger than most horse space in lorries!
 
Have a look at any videos you can of Mike Peace or Richard Maxwell on loading.

It was unfortunate that he was able to get away with not loading and as I'm sure you know is something you will need to rectify sooner rather than later. I have always found that pressure and release works will with my youngsters when we first practice loading them as well as having a sensible companion go up the ramp first. It will be expensive but having someone out - like MP or RM - might be the best solution. I'm afraid to say that it doesn't sound as though your horse has any respect for his handler as it doesn't appear from your post that he was actually frightened.

I don't believe that horses actually get bored - after all they never seem to tire of eating grass for the day. However your horse is still very young and may not be mature enough to take too much in. My homebreds all seemed to grow a lot bigger than planned (16.2 plus) and I tended to leave them in the field with their companions only bringing them into a stable once a day for a feed and to check them over until they were three years old. They all learned to lead, tie up, pick their feet up, move over and be brushed as foals and they didn't forget these lessons as they got older.
 
gingerlegs said:
I tried again a few weeks later, put her on a lunge line and stood at the top of the ramp. she could move side to side but not backwards, could sniff the ramp as much as she liked.
Eventually she got quite annoyed by having to stand there and pulled a foot up and pawed at the ramp (bouncing it!) so I knew she wasn't scared..
After about half an hour she got on of her own accord! She's been good to load since..

Not sure if you are trying to load in a trailer of lorry but given the size of him he might find a trailer quite claustrophobic, just a thought :)
Click to expand...

I am a great believer in similar to this method, have used it for all of my youngsters that TBH, won't have had half as much handling as yours (I can do feet, brush over, lead but that's about it) and can hand on heart say none of them take much more than five minutes to clambour up the ramp and investigate inside the trailer; we do that a couple of times and I put them away. When Manny was collected (huge ID x three year old) in a wagon, he had only been into the trailer twice but he virtually beat me up the ramp into the wagon even though he had never seen it before, he just had a problem to work out how he could turn his long body to stand herringbone. I was so chuffed with him and his new owners have travelled him about since then, he always leaps in like a pro'.

Because of his size, I would perhaps try him with tack on so he doesn't have a dicky fit when he's older but other than reinforcing his manners, I wouldn't be trying to do more with him at his age.
 
Unfortunately I think you are setting yourself up for having a potentially very difficult horse. He is having a lovely time being in charge, refusing to do stuff he doesn't feel like doing and generally reinforcing his "shan't, and you can't make me" routine. He is going to be a BIG horse, you need to establish some obedience and compliance NOW.
 
Thanks for your replies, will give all the suggestions a try!

Unfortunately due to the timing restraint yesterday it probably wasn't done the correct way and not enough time was given to him. He was then so exhausted and stressed we had to admit defeat which wasn't the best thing to do but we had no option.

I'm going to try and get hold of a box/trailer ASAP and set aside a few hours with no pressure whatsoever and see what happens. If I'm still having trouble after a few practice sessions I'll look into a specialist for sure as I don't want this to become an issue.

Cortez, this is why I posted to see if there were any tried and tested methods that others have used on larger horsesto nip this in the bud now. As you say, if left this could be a disaster later on down the line if he starts learning this behaviour is the way to go.

Aside from this issue he is an absolute dream in every other way, he's polite, doesn't barge/push me around, respects personal space and is great to lead and never spooky. I trust him 100% and know he would never be dangerous or silly. Considering his age his attitude is brilliant. My only issue is this stubborn streak he seems to have which I've heard is the common issue in larger horses. I would say there has been 3 incidents in the two years I've had him similar to yesterday whereby he's planted. Once the week I got him and he didn't want to go into the field- we got him In eventually after me leading him round for a while and trying a few times. The second on Saturday when I tried to take him into our wash bay to plait him up. To be fair to him though he had already been in there earlier on to be bathed so was obviously just fed up of the pampering- it had been a long day for him. Although these incidents are few and far between and it may seem I'm overreacting to some, I'm just worried that now he's got away with not loading it has reinforced this behaviour so I don't want it to become a regular thing!
 
I would try teaching him to lunge (just the basics in a halter at walk/trot). Not in order to then run him around in circles for ages but so that you have a tool that you can use when he decides to plant. Then whenever he does this, you should respond by immediately making him trot some circles around. Shouldn't need many: 2-3 really. Then try again. Any sign he's doing what you want should be rewarded by letting him stand quietly and then asking for a bit more. Then if he plants again, repeat. He will realise that he has to do what you want or you'll get after him. And you don't need to establish this relationship using a rented trailer... Just set up any challenging obstacles and try leading him through. If he plants, you get after him. Once he's got the idea that you make these decisions and he has to follow, you should find it a lot easier to get him to do things. THEN you can bring on the trailer.

The reason I say "teach him to lunge" is because people will often take the advice of running their horse around them on the end of a leadrope but if you haven't shown them how to do this without trampling you first, it might not be a lot of fun... But I want to emphasise that I don't mean sticking gadgets on (which I don't do anyway mind you) and running him around for hours tacked up and trying to get an "outline". I'm not sure why people often assume this... So, to be crystal clear, I mean put a long leadrope on his halter and teach him to walk and trot (and halt) on command around you with a schooling whip (don't even need to touch him with it unless he tries to run you over) at a respectful distance.

Spend a few minutes watching horses at liberty during feeding time and you'll see the dominant ones can move everyone else to wherever they please. All they have to do is give a look. At some point they might have threatened to kick or bite but they don't need to resort to actual violence and a few minutes later they can invite that same horse over for a grooming session. That is, in my opinion, the relationship you should establish with your horse early on. Then when you ask for something, he'll believe you are serious but will also trust you to be making the right decision.
 
Mine was a sod to load! Unfortunately I had to leave him behind when I moved and a friend loaded him. Took them 3 hours and they had to get several big blokes to carry him up the ramp! The next time I tried to load him he just said "NO!!" Took an hour to get him on and he got away from me several times.

I got a Dually and did some ground work with him first, then hired a box for 6 hours. It took less than 10 mins to get him on the first time, and less than an hour to have him totally happy going on and off, including a short trip out and then loading again.

Mine is only 14.2hh but he is a prper HW cob with very low centre of gravity which meant it was impossible to hold him if he set himself against me. Once we had done some work in the Dually he realised that he couldnt do that anymore.

I didnt rush him. I walked him up slowly and let him have a good look at the wagon and sniff around it. Then I tried to load him. He tried getting away, realised he couldnt and then loaded. He wasnt happy the first few times. But 20 repetitions later he was loading and happy stood on the box, so we took him for a small trip. He was fine :)

Hes been loaded several times since and loads and travels fine. I'm not sure I could have sorted it without the dually. Hes just sooo strong and you cant hold him!
 
He is only 2, so although I agree with what everyone is saying about manners, etc. just make sure that he understands what is being asked. If he doesn't respond to something, then think of another way to explain.

A horse will sometimes lie down if they are so confused that they don't know what to do, I wouldn't say that it is having a tantrum.
 
I think you are doing an awful lot with him, he is only two. I handle mine very little really, they come in they have what the need to be done, wormed, farrier, checked over, quick brush, a couple of handfuls of chaff if they are lucky, and then they go out. They may go to a show once a year, they are stabled next to a friend, watch them be bathed, loaded and do the same, after the show they may not be touched apart from the odd pat until they need something else doing. By the sound of him he is baby that is just saying I have had enough, make me, which is exactly what you want to avoid.
 
Keep his feet moving, this is a must, if he plants you must pull him off balance so he moves. He has to learn pressure release, and trying to load is probably asking too much at one time. Don't faff about too much with him, when he is in the field he needs to relax. When you are handling him it is a lesson, make it short and sweet. Use verbal commands but don't chatter all the time, no baby talk, no treats. A "good boy" is all he needs. One or two handling lessons in a week is plenty, never do anything when you are short of time.
 
Last edited:
Bonkers2 said:
Keep his feet moving, this is a must, if he plants you must pull him off balance so he moves. He has to learn pressure release, and trying to load is probably asking too much at one time. Don't faff about too much with him, when he is in the field he needs to relax. When you are handling him it is a lesson, make it short and sweet. Use verbal commands but don't chatter all the time, no baby talk, no treats. A "good boy" is all he needs. One or two handling lessons in a week is plenty, never do anything when you are short of time.
Click to expand...
^^this. My just turned 2yr old cob loads perfectly, walks out in heavy traffic, long reins, inhand showing now but it has been a stuggle to get her there as she was a spoilt brat when i got her, she still has her moments where she will tank off with my friend on the end of the lead rope and refuses to let her catch her but she wouldnt dare do that with me, shes knows mummy dosnt take any crap! now i just need to get her trotting out without her sticking her ears back lol
you will get there just be firm, theres no rush :)
 
Play him at his own game! It's the easiest way.

I would hire a box and set aside a good few hours every day one week to practice loading. I'd stick him on a long rope or lunge and get him in a thin rope halter. Then I'd walk up the ramp, completely ignore him and whatever he chooses to do, and wait at the top for as long as you need to. Make it uncomfortable for him when he refuses to move (get a good pair of gloves on) and easy for him when he moves, even if it's just one inch to the side. Pressure on halter when being difficult, loose rein and soft voice when he moves.

Most important is that you don't give up. Horses are curious creatures and eventually temptation to investigate will give in.

You said you tried this before with the loading guy, but it's best to do this when it's just you & the horse with no pressure.

I wouldn't go down the smacking route - the worse thing you could do is start this horse off by getting him to associate travelling with being smacked.
 
I've not read the replies and my PC (at work) crashed yesterday when I tried to reply but here's my, copy and pasted from yesterday, 2 pence worth...

Re loading

When I got my 2yr old I didn't have transport to practise loading with either. I practiced walking over/across tarps and through narrow spaces (cones/barrels/jump wings). Just starting with folded tarp (held down with cones) that he could step over and then stretching it out until he had to walk right over it, back up and turn etc. With the cones/wings I stared with them jump pole width apart then brought them in. It took no time at all with him to get the idea and the whole process has been drama free.

When a friend came to move us yards I used my 100% dependable older horse as a lead into the box but he then proceeded to lose his mind and kick off big style. So when he got banished back to his stable I didn't think we'd have any luck with the youngster. It took two attempts, the first time he planted and backed up but the second approach (with a carrot waved under his nose) he marched on stood to get the bar up behind him and waiting patiently until the other eejit was allowed back out his stable to load again.

I can only put how easy it was down to all the groundwork and that he trusts me to walk over strange surfaces and uneven terrain.

Maybe some groundwork to get control of his feet so that you can move him/keep him moving so that he doesn't get a chance to plant? I've found the Richard Maxwell books good for exercises for this type of thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top