Thinking of euthenasia at this point

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LankyDoodle

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Those who have read my laminitis advice post will know why.

Absolutely and truly gutted but until now she'd never lay down with the pain and yesterday she was. She's got worse the last day or so and although had no digital pulse, she had heat in her feet again yesterday. It's the pain that's causing this, but I just feel like nothing we do is making her better. We've had 2 vets and a farrier tells us to continue what we are doing (until now). We've had a very very experienced lady at the yard, with years of experience with laminitics, tell us we are doing everything exactly how she would do it. But nothing is working and I feel it's unfair to keep her in so much pain.

It's been 6 weeks since onset, now, and she initially was only very very mild case, but then had another attack which was worse and caused rotation and separation in one foot (where the original infection had been). She had the heart bars fitted last friday, she got much much better very rapidly, and friday night she was better than she has been for 6 weeks. Then tuesday she had the heat in her feet, lying down with the pain etc - no digital pulse, though. Farrier there at the moment but I am at college for my final day.

To top it off we have builder problems on a huge scale and also my car has had three things go wrong in the last week which now need sorting. I have so much to do round the house which has been neglected and I just can't cope. I just want her to be ok. :'(
 
Its sounds like the combination of stress factors are acting in combination right now for you, you poor thing. All I can suggest is take a deep breath and take things one at a time, sort builders or car or horse and then work onto the next one, as its impossible to deal with all of them at once.

If horsie is comfy on bute then thats ok for now, dont make a decison when other stuff is stressing you, wait until the other stuff isnt clouding and then make a decision thats right for the horsie....It might be the big E IS the right decision but you will need for yourself to know afterwards that you made the decision unclouded by other stuff.

good luck and whatever decision you end up making wont be a bad one, it will be the right one :-))))
 
Can i ask how she got the 2nd bout?
Please dont give up - iv been there done it with mine and by the sounds of it he was 100% worse. He got stress related colice through the pain.
Can i make a suggestion? my pony was crippled with these heart bar shoes.. if they are not fitted correctly then the pain is unimaginable. I would highly recommend taking shoes off and leaving her barefoot.
6 weeks really isnt a long time to recover from this. Please be more patient and give her a chance.. Lammi is not the end of the world. I also considered giving up on mine - but he was 5 years old, had acute Lammi - it took him 6 months to fully recover.
Keep us updated.. i hope she gets better
 
Are you 100% sure that she is laying down through pain - and not just laying down.

Any decent vet worth his salt will tell you when to call it a day, and so perhaps she's not as bad as you think?
 
You are having a really bad time but you are doing everything you can and your horse knows that . Take advice and don't be scared to ask the vet all the time.
Hope things become easier. hugs
 
dont have any rushed decisions - sounds like your having a rough time and this can make things seem unclear. Speak to the vet again and also the farrier and take things from there.
hope things get better for you soon .
 
She got first bout through combination of infection and blowing up to the size of a whale in the space of a week. She recovered well from this mild case but then got another more severe attack which we have since found caused rotation and separation in the initially infected leg. I so don't want to give up on her but the farrier has said to us that he doesn't want to give up and there has to be something we're not doing that we should be doing to make her better, as she shouldn't keep getting ill.

What ARE we doing wrong?

She's had vet visits regularly for last 6 weeks;
She has had farrier visit three times and now has heart bars fitted.
She was rested for 5 weeks before having the heart bars and then we were told to walk her out for a few minutes each day to monitor her level of soundness/lameness and get the circulation going.
She is on bute - was one twice a day, we cut to one once a day on advice of vet (he told us to give more in times of extreme pain), she is now back to two twice a day.
She had ACP but is now off it. We never saw her lying down until yesterday.
She's on extremely deep shavings and rubber matting.
She is getting epsom salts in her water, soaked hay and is losing weight.
Farrier says the heart bars are not loose or tight.
She has no digital pulse but had heat yesterday. The feet are now cool again (thanks to the bute).
No shoes on back feet.
We have only walked her out twice and have now stopped due to the extra pain she is displaying.

WHAT ARE WE MISSING? WHAT AREN'T WE DOING? He is coming back at 5 to talk us through things but the fact he said he doesn't want to give up suggests we are reaching the stage where we might have to reach that kind of decision. I'm heart broken and can't cope with this.
 
DONT GIVE UP ON YOUR HORSE !
U NEED TO GIVE HER A CHANCE
BEST OF LUCK AND PLEASE LET US KNOW HOW SHE IS GETTING ON
X
 
Carrie 6 weeks really isnt a long time. With pedal bone rotation she is bound to be in pain. Just be a bit more patient - given time im sure she will be fine.
 
it happened with mine too, he got worse then got better. i would seriously recommend having a talk with your vet and farrier at options to make her more comfortable. IMO i dont like the heart bars on Lammis.
 
Personally, I would change the heart bars - talk to your farrier. I don't like them, never have done, and went with Natural Balance for my laminitic pony. (Others will disagree with this, but it worked brilliantly for her).

You're doing everything right. It can take a long time for them to recover from laminitis, and they do have ups and downs during that time.

Your vet will know when it's time to let her go. If you're in ANY doubt, speak to your vet, explain your concerns, and ask their advice. My vet was great when I did this, and I was so pleased I did it.
 
Speak to the vets about Cushings Disease and Equine Metabolic Syndrome(EMS). If the pony has either of these it will continue to deteriorate with only the conventional laminitis treatments. Cushings is easily tested for and is treatable with medication (Pergolide). EMS is more complicated. Out of the three driving ponies I look after for my job one has cushings and one has EMS. The EMS pony had mild lami last Christmas, was promptly treated and he later had a worse attack in all four feet. Although his pedal bones did not drop, he would lie down a lot with the pain. He's still on a bute a day, seven months later. There are still significant changes going on in the soft tissue in his feet and though he's comfortable and runs around the field, he's definitely not 100% sound. He actually improved a lot with Pergolide even though he is negative for cushings. It might be worth trying with yours rather than just PTS. Also do speak to the specialists, they will have seen far more of these complicated cases than regular vets. Good Luck!!!!
 
I forgot to say, my vets also prescribe Asprin to treat laminitis attacks alongside ACP and Bute. Can't think of anything else helpful though, sorry. Try pm-ing Eaglestone, she knows loads about laminitis.
 
She's been tested for everything and bloods were clear.

Got there tonight and her BEST foot had opened up - the pedal bone is about to come through. The vet has IVd some very high dose pain relief, told farrier to remove the shoes and given ACE. Basically, he's gone to phone the laminitis clinic to see what they say - there is a small chance for referral to the hospital where she would be for a very long time with the sounds of it, lots of pain to get her there, stressful for her, or PTS which he thinks is the prognosis as it stands as the last one like this was slightly worse and a sire so heavier, but he was PTS as nothing else they could do.

We are the type to do the best for our animals, hold out for them, but also never want them in unnecessary pain. Our other horse would be distraught if she was separated from him and he had no closure (ie, seeing she was gone). We don't want her to be in any more pain. All we have ever done in this is the best we know, what our vets and farrier have said. We've done everything we were told to but now obviously are looking back beating ourselves up about this that and the other - what if she had it and we didn't recognise til too late? What if this? What if that? I just can't bear to look at her because she still has that same bright spark in her face and it's breaking my heart just thinking about it.

So my worst fears have been confirmed - strong likelihood is she will be PTS.

He said she is a sinker, but is not sweating, wasn't laid down, wasn't panting or breathing funnily, bright in the face, and he couldn't get the finger where he should be able to if she is a sinker, so he is confused by it.

Feel so numb, sick, confused, frustrated. The farrier, who has shod her for 10 years, burst into tears as he was there.
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The vet has just called after phoning a specialist clinin (lami clinic closed now). They have said if we can get her comfortable (which she is at the moment), then in the next couple of days we can dress the crack (which is at the toe) with some rubber tubing which the farrier can get apparently, and dress the heel in order that she is not so upright, and there is a chance of saving her. They say if she is not more comfortable on the pain relief, ACE etc, by Monday then it's a hopeless case and transporting her to Wiltshire (from Somerset) would be cruel (in ours and vet's eyes). In other words, she's on death row.

Now, she was quite comfy and happy tonight and the only issue was the crack in the toe. The clinic say we have done the absolute best possible for her tonight and now it's a case of her being made comfy over the next couple of days, until a point where some tubing can be used to fill the crack etc.

Feel numb, just as before, feel my mind can't cope with this, but the vet is quite straight up with us and sings from same hymn sheet as us on keeping animals in pain needlessly, and says he would have told us outright tonight if it was a hopeless case.

3 days - not long to say your goodbyes, huh?
 
Oh I am sorry to hear this, what a terrible shame. I hope she can somehow pull through - as long as she is comfortable at the moment then tomorrow is another day and maybe there is still hope with the tubing? I wouldn't give up hope just yet. There have been recoveries from some terrible cases and at least she is getting the best of treatment possible. My friend's welsh cob went through something similar, combined with colic as well and it was awful but she did pull through, slowly but surely. That was 10 years ago and she's still going strong at 29!

Anyway best of luck with her, I really hope she pulls through. Keep us updated.
smile.gif
 
A few years back a heavy cob mare on my yard went down with severe lammi & her pedal bone was within a hairs breadth of coming through - you could see the shape of it against her sole & the farrier, when he was finally called, was yelling for a vet NOW! She was laying down all the time, to the extent that it was affecting her breathing, & there was a board up so that people could put the time they'd seen her & if she was standing or lying down. I don't think anyone expected her to make it but somehow she did & she's still ridden today.

I really hope your girl makes it. My prayers & good wishes are with you & I wish there was more I could do x.
 
I just keep going over in my head, what if we'd never walked her out (as told to do) and what if we'd not had the heart bars (as told to do) and what if she was a skinny TB? And what if we'd seen it coming and stopped it? And why us? And why did she get a mild attack, get better, severe attack with rotation and separation, affected foot (worst) got better and now the other foot has had an accute attack to the point the sole has opened at the toe? WHY US?

The vet made me cry when he said he knows us well and we are two of the most dedicated animal-owners he's known (he knows our other animals as well) and that we shouldn't beat ourselves up as we have done everything we can.
 
What ifs are only going to drive you mad - don't go there. You did what you thought was best & followed the professional advice that you were given, if you'd done otherwise this would probably still have happened & you'd be blaming yourself even more.

It may be that she's been resting the worst foot at the expense of the good one & the extra strain she's put on it has triggered the laminitis. If that's the case then there's nothing you could have done to prevent it.

Hold on to the fact that at the moment your vet is still fighting for her & she hasn't givenup either. Can the specialist clinic or the Laminitis Trust not get someone out to you tomorrow? I think that's what I'd be pushing for at the moment.

Huge hugs & please don't beat yourself up.
 
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WHY US?

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Its just bad luck, mate. You're doing your best, thats all you can do. I know laminitis can sometimes be prevented with management, but its often not the case. Its not your fault, its just horses for you.
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Thank you for your good wishes and prayers. Just got back from the stables (we had to go and give her bute and hay (the IV pain relief lasts 5 hours). She was lying down (heavily sedated). My husband lay down with her. She's got so much fight left in her face, which makes this whole thing so much worse. It's a case of the lights being on and being so bright they're blinding, and it's up to us to decide whether to turn them out
frown.gif
 
How old is your ned Carrie?

I guess everyone reading your posts will be feeling for you and sharing your frustration and helplessness. I hope too that you can read the replies and pick up on other people'e experiences and thoughts and ideas and use this to boost you through the dark times. HOWEVER. The only person who knows everything about your ned and what she can and can't cope with, is you. Therefore, I would say, if despite everything, you still feel that your horse has had enough and the professionals looking after her also believe there is nothing more that can be done, then YOU are the one in the best - indeed the only - position to decide when enough is enough. Sometimes though, seeing an animal in pain is more than a loving owner can bear. But often, the animal CAN be restored to health...it just takes patience, pain relief and time. But equally, sometimes nothing more can be done and the kindest and most humane thing to do is to quietly and with dignity put an end to the otherwise endless suffering.

This is your decision Carrie. Look in your heart. Talk one more time to the professionals. You will know deep down if it's time. Your girl will tell you too. My heart aches for you xxx
 
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