Thinking of euthenasia at this point

Hi,

I am so sorry - I have been where you are but for different injuries/illnesses and know how horrible it is.

The only thing I can strongly suggest is that you contact Robert Eustace of the Laminitis Clinic (someone put this in an earlier posting with a link).

I took a friends horse there some time ago and he is the absolute expert in this field. He also genuinely cares about the horses and may be able to come up with something your vets have not though of.

I really do wish you all the best and thinking of you. Its such a horrible place to be.
 
thank you
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She is 15. She has never had this before.

I have seen Robert Eustace's website. Thank you to the person who posted it.

From what I gather, it may be at a point where there's actually no choice to be made, ie no return if she's a sinker. I just don't know as we've never had this happen to us before. One of the vets said he's saved horses where the pedal bone has come through but then we are told this is extremely serious and the last horse he treated like this was PTS.
 
PS, this is the exact clinic the vet is phoning in the morning (they weren't there tonight as it was late) and where she will be referred.

She's not showing any other signs of being a sinker. The vet even said she's not showing signs of being in enough pain, there's no palpable depression round the coronary band, yes there's the digital pulse and she had heat there the other day (cold now) and there's this crack in the sole at the toe, just behind where the heart bars were.

20% survival for sinkers, though. Not great, is it!? And I bet they were the smaller horses as well.
 
Hi,

No its not great, but there still is some hope. Wait and see what comes out of the conversation between them in the morning. Also see how your horse is then.

Take care and also look after yourself, so your in a fit state to look after your horse.

I spent quite alot of time with laminitis trust people when my friends horse went there and I really would trust their opinion. They have done a tremendous amount of research and have so much experience.

I dont know what else to say except that I will have my fingers crossed for you.
 
It seems that in severe cases it's the shape of the foot, not the weight of the horse, that seems to be so important. That's why Im so paranoid about my ID's big flat feet, there's just no leeway for things to go wrong. My Sec D on the other hand has much smaller, more upright "pony" feet so if, God forbid, I ever had problems hed stand a better chance because there's more room for movement before a point of no return is reached.

The crack near the toe may be just that - a crack. I was very worried about my ID a few weeks back &, after speaking to the vet, had my farrier out to look at a crack fairly close to the toe (he'd not been right for a couple of weeks & then suddenly went very pottery so I had a major panic). It turned out that it was just a crack & a bit of sole flaking away so I felt like a complete twit!!!

I know how hard it is but try not to jump to any conclusions just yet. You say yourself that there are several things that don't point to her being a sinker so hopefully things aren't as bad as you dread.

Fingers crossed that you can get through to the Laminitis Clinic tomorrow & get a referral ASAP.
 
bloody hell you have my sympathy !!!!
take all the advice you can from the experts.
sounds to me like you've done your very best so far

i have my fingers crossed for you.
poor you, poor blacksmith and especially poor horse.
Be strong !
 
[ QUOTE ]
Got there tonight and her BEST foot had opened up - the pedal bone is about to come through

[/ QUOTE ]
So sorry to read this. In your shoes - I agree, I would be having the horse pts. There's no going back from 'sinkers'.........

You've fought a very brave battle with your poor mare.
 
Sorry to read your update, and that she's got worse.

I agree with BoxofFrogs - only you will know when the time is right. Take comfort from the fact your vet hasn't written her off yet, and that at the moment, there is still hope.
Please don't beat yourself up about this. It can happen to anyone. My pony came down with lami for the first time, age 30. Often, the first time, there are no symptoms until they rock back on their heels. You've done everything you can, and taken your vets/farriers advice. You can't do any more.

Thinking of you xx
 
oh Carrie.. My heart goes out to you.. Thinking about you.. Really really hope that you can get some good news for your mare. What a huge nightmare for you both just now. All you can do is listen to the vets and you blacksmith and your heart.. my thoughts are with you..
 
Out of all the laminitis posts on here, yours is about the most heartbreaking I have read. For someone as obviously dedicated, diligent and observant as you sound, this is no repayment at all
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I'm in agreement with most on here - you know her best and that bright light that you see is, I think, the most dependable sign that she is not ready to give up. I don't think you'll be able to kid yourself when any hope is gone but I was ready to agree with my vet about PTS my old pony at Christmas - but he said not to
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Rather glad as she was on the road to recovery by mid January and had a super summer. She's 29 with Cushing's laminitis and has been on borrowed time since we got her at 20!

As long as she's got the team you describe around her, you are in no danger of unnecessarily prolonging her life unfairly and really, all may not be as bleak as it seems. I'm still betting it's some sort of underlying metabolic thing and I'd be tempted to enquire about Pergolide as it has recently been indicated as a possible help in resolving cases of refractory laminitis without Cushing's as the main cause. I think it was on www.TheHorse.com

My thoughts are with you at this unbearably difficult time and I can't imagine anyone on here has anything to add other than comfort and backing to the excellent job you are making of this.

(Hugs) x
 
Dear Carrie,

I was in a similar position to u 10 years ago with my 12 yr old gelding, i was only 20 at the time and knew in my heart of hearts that i couldnt put him through anymore pain,
We all want to do the best for our horses but sometimes we put our own feelings before what is best for the horse, when i got my farrier down for the umpteeth time(he is used at a very well known animal hosp and does corrective shoeing to the highest degree etc) and i told him i was thinking of putting him to rest....he said to me .i wish there were more horse owners like u.......this just was enough for me.......that night i made a call and gave Ben his favourite tea :-(. When the time came the next morning Bens face was full of little blisters running down his cheek bones and i just knew i had done the right thing. I had owned him from a foal and it was the most heart wrenching thing i have ever done. (to this day)
The guy who came to put Ben to sleep, came straight around the corner concealing what he had is his hand and didnt even let Ben so much as look at him let alone sniff him and it was done...........IT WAS AWFUL!
BUT he could not go on living such a painful life.
Obviously i dont know the ins and outs of your baby's problems but i just wanted to tell you its ok to think how you are thinking.
Big hugs
Carla
 
It has taken 3 years to get my mare back to normal its been hard work and soul destrying not once did she give up if she had I would have taken the decision to have her PTS. She had pedal bone rotation in one foot. She is high maintance, a grumpy bagage but I took the barefoot route as well she is now ridden with Old Mac boots on and when the ground is hard turned out in boa boots. Its not for the faint hearted and I am lucky to have the time and funds to keep her along with my other horse she is his companion, she is my friend and the bravest mare in the world so stick to it given time things will come right and just at the moment you are feeling like its all going wrong but it will come good in the end.
 
I don't usually come into the Vet forum but I saw this title and wondered.

Please do not beat yourself up about the ifs, buts and whys. We may know alot about certain conditions, but even today we don't know all the causes and triggers of laminitis. Keep positive, keep in contact with your vet, farrier and the Laminitis Clinic.

Trust me, you will be in no doubt when you should make the decision for her to go to the endless sleep. You sound a very good owner, and I don't doubt that you will know when to say goodbye, weather that is with this bout of lami or in 10 years time with old age.
 
i am so sorry to hear this some times the horse tells you to late for you to do anything. you say she is on bute. you walk her for her circulation. is she more on her feet or off them? is she still eating/ what as your vet said her chances are?
 
I agree with Brighteyes and Welshcobabe on this subject, and I have been there and got through it, as mentioned on your other post.

I would go down the Pergolide route as there is nothing to lose and they can and do come through this dreadfull dreadful condition. The only issue after, is the possibility that they are high maintenance .... but I have never ever regretted what I put Motor through and if you could see him now he is such a happy little chappie, and the love of my life
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He too in Christmas 2005 was on the verge of being PTS but I was not going to let him go without a struggle and you must nearly be there and coming through the other side
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Her pain was ended at 650pm this evening. I spent the whole day apart from a couple of hours with her in her stable. My husband joined my at about 130pm. I won't go into the ins and outs of whys and what fors as we are doing enough of that for everyone. Save to say she was very peaceful towards the end and definitely wanted it to end. We got lots of cuddles given by her, lots of nice cuddle photos and we now feel massive relief she's at peace with her horsey friends in heaven.

The vet showed us the foot afterwards and if we had done it tomorrow as we originally wanted to (to spend lots of quality time with her) it would have been catastrophic. In the end she had a last meal of lots of lush grass and clover, hard feed and treats, lots of cuddles and was restful. The actual death apparently couldn't have gone better although I didn't watch, as my body told me not to and a good friend and my husband were with her.

Devastated, gutted, numb, cried out. Let the gelding spend a couple of minutes with her, which went OK and then he turned away so we put him out and he's eating so we are going to keep an eye on him as they did have a super bond that I've rarely seen between horses. The relief comes from the removal of anticipation (of the death) which went on all day and the fact she is out of pain. We've found lots of support in fellow owners at the yard and our fantastic vet.

Thank you to all who offered advice and support.
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Just gone back and read the other posts.

We really had reached the end of the road with her. When the vet spoke to Robert Eustace today we were told the rubber tubing was a no go for this horse after he heard about all the measurements, state of the feet etc. He said the only hope was to get her to Wiltshire and give her major surgery which would lead to 3-6 months in their hospital, with an extremely low chance of it working because the founder was so far gone. If he'd given us anything above 50% chance, we'd have snapped it up, but he gave us a MUCH lower chance than that, and with that and the trauma of travelling her.... The bone had actually protruded today as well, so we really did only have hours before catastrophy and PTS in stable. This was best - she was PTS in barn.
 
Thank you. I am now going back thinking what if again. What if Robert was only saying that because he wanted to make an experiment out of our horse (this is a relatively new procedure and would have cost 5000+ with the hospital stay)?

She told us she was ready, though. She lay down in the stable with us, laid her head on our chests and drifted in and out of sleep with her front legs curled up towards her head... so much pain that was only evident from today really.
 
So sorry to hear this, but you did the best you possibly could for her.

She will always be with you, there is no doubt in my mind about that.
 
Gosh im crying now, reminds me of my boy who got lami for the first time in his hinds, then as he hated his box he lost so much weight and looked like he was disapearing before my eyes after a week!! (he had to stay in for a year) I had to make the desision again the vets advise but I couldn't let him suffer.
Rest in peace XXXXXXX just remember the good times xxx
 
Oh Carrie. So, so sorry. I'm glad you spent those last hours together and your girl made it so clear what she needed from you. In a while you might want to visit the hoofbeats-in-heaven website and light a virtual candle for your girl and post a memorial or a poem for her. Thinking of you chick xxx
 
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