Thinking of selling Amber

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Bright_Spark

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Ok so I'm feeling pretty low at the moment anyway but I just dont know what to do.I feel like I have lost all confidence and trust with Amber and I dont think she trusts me.

Before she had foalie she was a bit tempermental but was very cuddly and sweet most of the time. Since she has had him she has got very tempermental and grumpy. I have a fight to get her rug and headcoller on her and whenever I try to do something with foalie she comesover and shields him or pushes him away- almost as if she thinks I will hurt him.

She has also kicked a couple of people on my yard- accidents really but I am very wary of going to near her rear end at them moment (she got YO on Sunday).

So do I perseve or sell her to someone who has more experience/confidence than me? Before I got her I thought that I would be able to deal with her (having raised and backed Septre), not saying that I am an expert at all, but hopefully you know what I mean. Obviously I would wait until little one is old enough to travel safely or possibly wait until he was weaned.

Sorry for long, boring, self indulgent, self pitying, rambeling post. Cookies if you got this far without falling asleep
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If she's just had a foal she's bound to be protective of him.
Can you rug her up and turn her and foalie out until he's weaned? Than you can remove him and get back to basics with her.
 
It's very common for a mare's personalities to change when she has a foal. Everything in her is telling her her foal is the most important thing in the world and that everything else is a potential threat - that's just nature's way. Even if they did live in a herd the foal would probably not yet be associating with other mares and foals. Later, when he is more independent, she might calm down a bit about human intervention. I knoe it doesn't look like it to you but she's just being a good mum.

What's worse is many mares are extra sucky when they're pregnant so the post-natal phase is even more of a shock for their people!

Do you have any friends/associates who breed horses? They would be much more knowledgable about how to best handle a broodmare giving someone a bit of trouble than even your average trainer might be. (I would be careful about getting someone out to train her as if she was just being "bad" - that's not really what's going on. Get someone out, yes, if you need help/instuction/backup but make sure they understand and sympathise with the situation and don't make matters worse.)

But honestly, her job is being a mother right now, not being your pet. Yes, she should still behave in a safe fashion and you may have to be a lot more careful about handling her and her foal for the time being but that's not exactly a surprise so presumably you planned for that to some extent. Before you make any rash decisions see how it works out. As you say, you can't do anything until the foal is weaned anyway, so wait until then and see how things go. It's quite likely once she doesn't have Jr. to look after anymore she will go back to being more interested in what you have to say.
 
Well YO is experieced at breeding horses and although she knows some mares get stroppy, she thinks Amber is dangerous at times.

I know that she is just being a protective mum and she was fine with me handling him in the stable, its just since they have been turned out.

Mind you she may be protective of him but she gets very grumpy if he wants so suckle when she is eating. She kicked him in the chest today! Other times she'll move away when he is feeding. TBH I'm a bit concerned that she is not a happy mum.

I admit that I am feeling ill and low so am probably being overdramatic and a bit sensitive about Amber's lethal legs rep she's given herself. I dont want anyone else to be at the end of a kick and worry that I wont do her justice in the future.
 
Well, she's a mum now so she'll just have to suck it up.
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Take something to make yourself feel less ill, have a cup of tea and your favourite biscuit, and go to sleep because it's the middle of the night where you are.
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Tomorrow talk to your YO anc see if she has any concrete suggestions - it's not fair to just critcise and not actually have something helpful to say, especially if you're the more experienced person. Pick her brains a bit about how to deal with the situation and be openmided about her advice. Remember, the biggest problem with not having your own yard is that you can't always do thinngs exactly the way you want.

And don't get yourself in a state about Amber letting you down. She's just being a horse, not doing it on purpose to upset you. Honestly, I know it's brutal, but horses don't care if you love them or not. Sure a horse can know you're its person and feel warmly towards you but they don't get the concepts of guilt or obligation so they can't behave the way you want just because you want them to.

Your horse has some powerful motivations right now you only imperfectly understand. Figure out a way to keep everyone safe and then understand that she is not "letting you down" on purpose. Managing the situation is what will make you a good owner and you're doing the first part of that by worrying about it.

Now go to sleep.
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Excellent advice Cruiser. Amber is being a mum. Horses don't think logically. It is her job to look after her foal and to tell him off when he oversteps the mark. It is amazing how a mare disciplines her foal, which is why hand-rearing a foal is so difficult. Does Amber have to be rugged? I would just let her get on being a mum for the time being and take things very slowly. Chin up!
 
As you may know, my mare has also just had a foal... I have owned Hannah for over five years and we have a very special bond. But as soon as Troy was standing she became a totally new creature. She tried kicking the vet, then lifted her leg at me and kept lunging at me with her ears back. She was just desperately trying to defend Troy from everyone, even me.

I spent a lot of time with them the first two days (he is only 3 days old now), just stood in the stable with them, grooming Hannah and handling Troy in front of her. Gradually she has become less edgy, and last night she left him with me at the door while she went and ate her haylage with her bum to us (she has not let him near the door before and wouldn't let him out of her sight either).

She is still very foal proud when leading them out, and she has been dangerous doing this bit to be honest. She turns wild when other horses pop their heads out of the stables as we are walking across the yard, but she is gradually getting better and today I am going to try it on my own.

I don't know whether any of this helps or is the right thing to do because I am very new to this. But I do know that is seems to be working with us three. Hannah is now extremely happy for me to be in the stable with Troy, even when he is struggling with me, she just leave us to it. Yesterday afternoon I was trying to dry him with a towel and he kept having a paddy and trying to run away, but Hannah kept pushing him back over to me and getting quite cross with him.

As for your mare squeeling at him when she is eating and he is trying to feed, Hannah is exactly the same. I think they just have to put them in their place... she bit his leg last night because he was mithering her to death while she was eating her tea and he soon got the gist and came over to mither me instead
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Don't get too down... like I have said, my mare is a totally different creature now she has had Troy, but she is slowly going back to how she was before, but I know she will not be the 'normal' Hannah until a few weeks after weaning.
 
She's only just had a foal hasn't she??

Just being a mum - although no excuse for bad behavoiur.

I wouldn't rush in to anything.
 
Theres some fantastic advice on here and obviously plenty of support, spend some time with her then turn them out to play...Springs coming!
as already said she has no concept that shes upsetting you and is just doing what comes natural... dont sell her, stick with it... things will sort themselves out over time..
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one of my mares is like that, she was an absolute jem before she went into foal, then as soon as she had had it she was evil, would have trouble getting her headcollar on as she would spin round and try to double barrel me, kick out at anyone anywhere near her and practially chase people out of the field. She turned back into the mare I originally owned when foal got to about 5-6months old, ok not completely still quite tetchy, but then when foal was weaned she stopped all evil behaviour and was back to normal. She went on to produce another foal the following year and was slightly less grumpy, and now is back in work and is as good as gold. Don't pannic it will sort itself out, as one of the other posters said (soz forgot who) try to turn them out 24/7 so you eliminate the aggression that is building up between the two of you. Good Luck
 
She has just had a foal, this is quite normal. Give it a few months and she will be fine. Nothing to worry about, just go with the flow, leave them in piece to get on with it. Having babies is quite stressfull and we all feel we need some space. Hormones are running high too..
 
Thank you for all of your replies
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Amber and Sirrius were stabled for the first few days, then breif turnouts but have been living out 24/7 since Sunday. They will be coming in when the weather is bad but I am hoping they can live out as much as possible.

The reason my YO thinks Amber is dangerous is because she has been kicked twice now. Once in Oct Amber charged her in the field and double barreled her, and last sunday while turning them out Amber paniced and tried to get back to foalie (he had stoped to investigate the trailer), got tangled in the lunge line and YO got cow kicked.

I guess I am just being oversensitive about the whole thing. I have only had Amber since September so we probably havent bonded properly yet.

YO put her rug on Tuesday evening as Amber felt a little cold and took it off Wednesday morning. When I put it on again that evening, she got a bit stroppy. I'm going to leave it off as much as possible now though.

Thanks again everyone, I feel more positive now
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I'm surprised by the practice of rugging up broodmares - no one I know here (I ride young horses, train horses for inspections etc. so I know A LOT of breeders) puts blankets on mares with foals for a whole bunch of reasons, the most worrying of which is the risk of the foal getting caught up. It's quite common for foals to climb on their mothers and just the thought of one of those thin little legs through a strap or caught in the neck opening . . . *shudder*
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Please do take her rug off... foalies can get stuck in surcingle straps and leg straps. You shouldn't really be rugging her up at all from what I have been told.
 
Hmmm, it was my YO who told me to rug her up at night, and did so on tuesday. Still its good to learn.

Amber can use up some of that excess energy to keep warm instead!
 
I only found out when someone mentioned something to me at stud a while ago... Hannah has been rugless since December and we have had some real cold spells, but she has been fine as this is the first year she has remained unclipped.
 
Honestly, quite a bit of this stuff is common sense but people get so freaked out thinking of all the stuff they don't know and then they start asking for opinions, and then they get a hundred different ones . . . . .

And then their heads start to spin.
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Bulletin boards are a great source of information but they can be very confusing. Your best defence is to ask "Why?" and "What are the risks?"

If someone can't give you a good reason that makes sense to you take what they say with a grain of salt even if you think they are quite experienced. Sometimes that can happen because the person was just taught things at a young age but that doesn't help YOU learn.

If someone tells you there are no risks to a possibly beneficial practice or a piece of equipment then keep walking. There are risks to EVERYTHING! Knowing what they are and how to manage them is the real key to keep safe - pretending they aren't there is a recipe for disaster.

It might help you to get a good book on foal raising if you don't already have one. I have no idea what is available in the UK but there are some quite good ones here - one of the best I've seen is John Lyon's "Bringing Up Baby", whether or not you're a follower of his.
 
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