Thinking of selling the yard-what should I advertise it for?

claire1976

claire1976

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Further to my earlier 'how much would you pay' post.
I'm thinking of selling the yard but I need to make it clear that I don't actually own the land so this will surely affect the value.
The land is owned by the council but is on permanant lease costing £200 per yr in ground rent.
I've no idea how much I could expect to get for the set-up. The rent has been paid upto Oct 08 and I'd pay the legal costs to transfer the lease contract.
Has anyone any idea what the value could be? Previous estimations of between £45k-85k seem crazy given that the land is not title deeded.
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A lot depends on location and the terms of the lease. Is this leasehold similar to those on flats, or does it contain limitations about transfer/use. How long is the remaining lease. You may need a cash buyer as it could be harder to raise a loan on. Are the boxes pony sized or horse. I've seen some very odd sized boxes when I've looked to buy e.g. 8' x 20' - alright unless the horse wants to turn around.

Prices in the Midlands can be relatively low in some areas, especially old mining areas. Generally though if house prices for the area are high so will the field prices be.

I know somebody who was recently quoted 5k an acre, plus 10k for a block of five stables in this region. This seemed low to me given the fact that accessible small blocks of land rarely come up ( - this was freehold).

Your best bet might be to pay somebody who deals with this sort of property to value it for you, you could always say that you're thinking of selling and get a free valuation! Or you could try selling at auction with an adequate reserve set on it. I think Bagshaws auctioneers could be a good place to start - never dealt with them personally though.
 
Location wise - its in a semi-rural area but you there is a fair bit of medium traffic type roads to ride on before getting into the country.
The leasehold is transferable like a flat. The only limitations are that you can't sublet the land.
Remaining lease is til Oct 08 but its whats called a rolling lease, its automatically renewed every year without question.
The boxes are 12ftx12ft, there are 3 in total, 2 laid to rubber mats. Plus a caravan on site.
I was thinking of getting a valuation but just punting for ideas at the mo.
 
Not sure about rolling leases. What if the Council decides to sell the land - a lot are selling off whatever assets they can these days. Also how free are they to raise the ground rent.

Any buyer would need reassuring re this as it really just looks like a rolling one year rental/licence to me ( -sorry if I'm wrong but I can't see the lease). Without knowing the security of tenure it is very difficult to value. Also the lessors (Council) would probably insist that any outgoing tenant reinstate the land and remove the stables.

Sorry to be so negative, but unless the lease offers greater security of tenure than it seems I think it could be very difficult to sell.
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The land is licenced to grazing only and is a protected piece of agricultural land which cannot be built on.
The contract I have is a rolling lease and the ground rent is fixed.
The land cannot be used for anything else other than grazing. Farmers had it for many years then it was left unused for 5 years as farmers don't want to pay £200 per a yr for it. When I enquired about it they practically snapped my hands off. Horsey ppl are their best tennants! They granted PP almost straight away as they were glad to pass the responsibility of maintenance on to me.
 
I'm sure somebody will be interested. It's very difficult getting any form of land leasehold/to rent for sole use. I would guess that you will be looking at a cash buyer though and in theory at least it must be for their sole use.

As a minimum you must be looking at the equivalent of a years rent for DIY e.g. £20-£30 a week per nag, and probably a good premium on that, especially if the Council will confirm to the prospective buyer that they have no evil designs on the site!!!! Also local knowledge may mean that you have enthusiastic interest from a few bidders.

Best wishes. Please, please let us know what you get (Oh dear - I am so nosey -you don't have to really).
 
Would you not need the council's permission to sell the tenure?

I would have a guess that if they felt the leasehold was going, they'd rather sell the land themselves for the money. Not sure you have the right to sell your leasehold without their approval, or have you looked in to that?

I'd have thought your best bet would be to rent the yard out and gain your income that way after paying your ground rent. You didn't have to pay a lump sum for the tenancy did you, just the annual ground rent?
 
Did you pay for the leasehold.All the ones I have heard of near us ,the council just put them up for tender when someone gives them notice they are leaving.Never heard anyone selling a council house they don't own surely this is the same ,you don't own anything but the stables and you could try to sell them and the caravan!!!!!!!!!!!
 
That's exactly what I was thinking as well.

We rent land on a rolling lease. We pay our £5k every April for it and it's ours for the summer for grazing/silage making. We know the farmer and it's entirely possible that we could rent that land for the next 15 years or more. However, we couldn't "sell" the tenure for that lease to a third party. We don't own the land, so how can we have a right to sell it? The owners would still have to pay rent to farmer who owned the land.

It's the same situation. I'm sorry, but I really don't "get" the whole concept of you thinking you have a potential to sell this land, unless you paid for a leasehold for x amount of years. As you say you pay an annual ground rent and had your hand snapped off for it, I assume there was no initial purchase of such a leasehold, therefore nothing for you to sell.

Is there anything in your tenure that states you can be recoup monies paid out to improve the land...ie the stables? Again, with our rented land, we are responsible for fencing and fertilising to make the land suitable for us. We can't reclaim that money if we decide to stop leasing.
 
Like I've explained, I'm not selling the land and neither do I think I have the potential/right to.
I would be selling the yard as a set up and have the lease transfered to a new tennant. To provide an analogy I guess it would be like selling the furniture of a council house along with the lease/tennancy.
I know its a hard one to grasp.
The lease can easily be transfered to a new tennant for the cost of the councils legal fee of £250.
What I'd be selling is the stable block with hardstanding, caravan, generator, solar/electric fencing etc, etc.
Hope I've made that clearer now.
I guess another option would be for me to purchase the land from the council and sell it as a whole.
 
I'm just not sure you can sell it as a whole with the guarantee that the land will always be available to go with the stables etc. What if the council can't guarantee the land will be available on a permanent lease to the new tenants?

Councils are pretty good at making their own money and you might find if they catch wind of you selling the fixtures and fittings, that they'd rather sell the whole thing as a going concern.

Did you have anything in writing from them to say you have the right to sell on your fixtures at a later date? Most council owned farms, for instance, have a grant to put up new sheds for cows etc. If they left the farm, they wouldn't be able to sell that shed to a new tenant. It becomes part of the fixtures and fittings in with the tenancy, not separate.

I think you need to seek legal advice (unless you already have done). It just doesn't seem as simple as you are making it sound somehow.
 
effectivley you're just selling the stables. If you lived in a council house, and built a shed, then moved the tenancy over to your child (which you can... much the same) the council have every right to go in and knock the shed down, as it doesnt belong to them and isnt part of the tenancy.

The stables alone would be worth about 5k.

You can't sell the hardstanding, only the value of the tarmac. That makes about 5100 pounds.
 
So you can dismantle the stables and sell them.....or sell them erected to a new tenant (if the council accept a new tenant) but that's it.
 
I *think* you would have to dismantle and sell them ,or pay the council to leave them be.

Theoretically anything that isnt owned by the coucil, but is on land they rent, is deemed by them as a liability. Afterall, the council is responsible for all fixtures and fittings on their land. If someone hurt themselves on soemthing the council don't own (ie the stables) they aren't covered for public liability. I know that on council grazing near us, when one tenant moves off the stables or sheds are demolished and taken away ready for new tenant.
 
Arrr...I think I'm getting this now. Presumably if they left them there, they'd then be responsible for the maintenance of the stables if they were included in the new tenancy?
 
[ QUOTE ]
The contract I have is a rolling lease and the ground rent is fixed.


[/ QUOTE ]

What is the difference between a rolling lease and renting on an annual basis?
 
yes, which as they didnt erect them, they wouldnt do.

You'd have to dismantle them and sell them, or ask the council to leave them. They might not be very chuffed at the thought of someone selling the stables as part of a "yard" though
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In fact, i think they'd object!
 
I rented our paddock from the council. When I left the person
in charge went through the list of people wanting paddocks and they contacted me about my stables and fencing and we did a deal, after I'd recieved the money the new contract to
the new tenant was sent. If no one had wanted to take on the paddock I'd have sold them and had them taken down.
 
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