Thinking of taking away my stirrups.

[Clairlyagenius]

Hi all!

I'm looking for ways to improve my riding and my seat, and have been considering buying a bareback saddle pad and riding in that all the time until I get good at it.
However, I don't want to negatively impact my horses back if I get a bit bouncy. So I thought it might be better to just take away my stirrups, so the saddle is still there for pressure distribution.
What are your thoughts? Will this be helpful to me, without being detrimental to my horse? Should I just get a bareback pad for more contacts benefits? Has anyone done this and noticed improvement?

 

[stormox]

Just cross the stirrups in front of the saddle and ride without them for 5 mins to start with, then slowly increase the time - if you cross them rather than remove them from the saddle you can get them back quickly if you see a 'spook' ahead, or big lorry coming.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Just cross the stirrups in front of the saddle and ride without them for 5 mins to start with, then slowly increase the time - if you cross them rather than remove them from the saddle you can get them back quickly if you see a 'spook' ahead, or big lorry coming.

Back in the day, we spent at least half of a RS lesson doing just this!

 

[Skib]

A treed saddle puts the rider's weight where it should be, on cartilege either side of the horse's spine.
If you ride with no saddle, your legs should hang forward in the slight hollow behind the shoulders of the horse. This is hoiw native Americans rode bareback,

Even in a conventional lesson with stirrups, your legs will stretch down as you ride and that is why one often needs to lengthen the stirrups after a few minutes of riding.

 

[nutjob]

Riding without stirrups is a good idea, I also remember it being normal in RS lessons. Franklin balls might be useful, I'm not straight due to medical issues, but they can be helpful anyway to highlight issues you might need to work on. Also, lessons often work on improving the horse so maybe ask for one where the trainer goes back to basics and focuses on your position and seat.

 

[sbloom]

Hi all!

I'm looking for ways to improve my riding and my seat, and have been considering buying a bareback saddle pad and riding in that all the time until I get good at it.
However, I don't want to negatively impact my horses back if I get a bit bouncy. So I thought it might be better to just take away my stirrups, so the saddle is still there for pressure distribution.
What are your thoughts? Will this be helpful to me, without being detrimental to my horse? Should I just get a bareback pad for more contacts benefits? Has anyone done this and noticed improvement?

I think it only plays a small part in truly correct rider biomechanics etc, I would advise working with a ridden biomechanics coach if possible, otherwise work off horse with one first, such as Equimech in Northern Ireland who offers online help. Removing stirrups isn't a bad idea in walk (it's a great way to warm your own hips etc up, especially if you can do gentle lateral work etc before then taking your stirrups back to go up into rising trot) but it can cause more issues than it solves in trot, especially without someone to guide you from the ground. Sorry to disagree with everyone, but I work with rider stability fit and stability and taking away stirrups can just make riders tense and bounce more.

We need to be a MORE stable load for the horse to carry so working on you, and considering how well the saddle helps or hinders you, is addressing the fundamental issue rather than guessing.

 

[eahotson]

I think it only plays a small part in truly correct rider biomechanics etc, I would advise working with a ridden biomechanics coach if possible, otherwise work off horse with one first, such as Equimech in Northern Ireland who offers online help. Removing stirrups isn't a bad idea in walk (it's a great way to warm your own hips etc up, especially if you can do gentle lateral work etc before then taking your stirrups back to go up into rising trot) but it can cause more issues than it solves in trot, especially without someone to guide you from the ground. Sorry to disagree with everyone, but I work with rider stability fit and stability and taking away stirrups can just make riders tense and bounce more.

We need to be a MORE stable load for the horse to carry so working on you, and considering how well the saddle helps or hinders you, is addressing the fundamental issue rather than guessing.

Agree 100 per cent.

 

[Skib]

Sorry to disagree with everyone, but I work with rider stability fit and stability and taking away stirrups can just make riders tense and bounce more.

But not if they have been properly prepared, trained in walk to feel the side to side movement of the back legs under their seat and how to allow (or slow) that movement with their seat. The movement in trot is the same as in walk. Needs to be taken slowly, ony a few steps trot at first, but long enough in trot to know which hip is rising and which is falling.

In my case ths was done by endless lunge lessons.

 

[Clairlyagenius]

Just cross the stirrups in front of the saddle and ride without them for 5 mins to start with, then slowly increase the time - if you cross them rather than remove them from the saddle you can get them back quickly if you see a 'spook' ahead, or big lorry coming.

I do that quite often! The only problem with that is the buckle on the stirrup leathers tends to dig into my thigh and hurt after a while

 

[Clairlyagenius]

Riding without stirrups is a good idea, I also remember it being normal in RS lessons. Franklin balls might be useful, I'm not straight due to medical issues, but they can be helpful anyway to highlight issues you might need to work on. Also, lessons often work on improving the horse so maybe ask for one where the trainer goes back to basics and focuses on your position and seat.

I try to do it pretty often at the start or end of a ride, but I'm trying to really push myself now because I feel like I've stopped actually improving and am just.. Where I'm currently at, which isn't good enough
So I'm thinking if I get rid of stirrups for a while, I might just develop a better seat and balance!
I've never heard of Franklin balls, but it looks interesting, I'll certainly see about incorporating them!

 

[Clairlyagenius]

I think it only plays a small part in truly correct rider biomechanics etc, I would advise working with a ridden biomechanics coach if possible, otherwise work off horse with one first, such as Equimech in Northern Ireland who offers online help. Removing stirrups isn't a bad idea in walk (it's a great way to warm your own hips etc up, especially if you can do gentle lateral work etc before then taking your stirrups back to go up into rising trot) but it can cause more issues than it solves in trot, especially without someone to guide you from the ground. Sorry to disagree with everyone, but I work with rider stability fit and stability and taking away stirrups can just make riders tense and bounce more.

We need to be a MORE stable load for the horse to carry so working on you, and considering how well the saddle helps or hinders you, is addressing the fundamental issue rather than guessing.

I'll have to look into it and see, I would definitely be interested in a biomechanics lesson, I learn well when the whys and when's of positioning are explained to me.
I'm actually pretty comfortable trotting with no stirrups, my main loss of balance comes going from canter back to trot

 

[stormox]

I do that quite often! The only problem with that is the buckle on the stirrup leathers tends to dig into my thigh and hurt after a while

Do you pull the buckle down before you cross them? That helps...

 

[planete]

Okeyish in walk but the horse will need to be in a correct outline to give you a comfortable trot and to avoid him getting a sore back.

 

[sbloom]

Okeyish in walk but the horse will need to be in a correct outline to give you a comfortable trot and to avoid him getting a sore back.

I would just change "outline" to balance/posture

@Clairlyagenius then just don't canter? That's a hard transition to truly master even with stirrups.

 

[Clairlyagenius]

Do you pull the buckle down before you cross them? That helps...

.... I have been doing this regularly for like a year or more, and I have literally NEVER thought to just move the buckles! What the hell is wrong with me!?

 

[Clairlyagenius]

I would just change "outline" to balance/posture

@Clairlyagenius then just don't canter? That's a hard transition to truly master even with stirrups.

Isn't the whole point to always try to improve and get better though? Surely I should do the things I'm NOT good at, until I am good at them.. I just want to make sure I'm not detrimentally affecting my horse as I try to improve.

 

[Skib]

Isn't the whole point to always try to improve and get better though? Surely I should do the things I'm NOT good at, until I am good at them..

Better at what? And by what scale of values? John Lyons points out how ridiculous it is and hard on the horse that riders spend most of their time doing what they cannot do or do badly.

 

[planete]

Can you have lunge lessons on a school master? A few of those would be safer for both you and your horse and much more effective in improving your position.

 

[sbloom]

Isn't the whole point to always try to improve and get better though? Surely I should do the things I'm NOT good at, until I am good at them.. I just want to make sure I'm not detrimentally affecting my horse as I try to improve.

Tackling problems by just doing them over and over isn't really a path to success. We need to hone in on what the issue is and find ways to fix that, hence my recommendations.

I specialise in rider fit and horse posture/movement in my saddle fitting so tackle it from both directions. Working in tension isn't good for either of you, and I'm sure you know that bouncing around or pulling on the mouth isn't good, and working in poor patterns IS harmful.

We need to find the things we can improve easily, small things, build on those and bring those new skills and abilities to the things that are harder. If it's still a struggle then revisit, rethink, don't just keep bashing away

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I do that quite often! The only problem with that is the buckle on the stirrup leathers tends to dig into my thigh and hurt after a while

Just pull the buckle down a bit before you cross them over the saddle

 

[Kaylum]

We had many 60 minute lessons at YRC without stirrups in the 90s. It's why I ride so long and get commented on to put my stirrups up. I find riding shorter really difficult.

 

[teacups]

I've also had many lessons without stirrups.

I find the suggestions that (paraphrased) you shouldn't bother to improve your riding, or that practising something is equal to just repeating incorrect riding, a bit odd.

In some ways learning to ride does involve a lot of repetition and 'hours in the saddle' in order to create the right muscle memory, surely. Who on earth was perfect at sitting the trot without stirrups the first time they tried it, straightaway? Most people would not have the funds to do *all* of that under instruction from someone, and on a well-schooled schoolmaster horse to boot.

If learning to improve your riding is made to sound soo challenging and soooo complex to get right that it's better not to do anything at all, most people will just do that and give up even trying, won't they? I'm sure that cannot be what's intended.

ETA I'm a bit grumpy this morning I think - it's the posts about finding specialised biomechanics instructors etc - all very well, how many of those are there in the country? - or lunge lessons on schoolmasters - there are quite a few past threads about the difficulty of finding those in the whole of the country, too.

 

[Clairlyagenius]

Better at what? And by what scale of values? John Lyons points out how ridiculous it is and hard on the horse that riders spend most of their time doing what they cannot do or do badly.

Better at riding in general, balancing if my horse spooks, going over jumps etc. I would have thought the idea would be to always improve your seat to be the quietest possible passenger.
I totally get that, and I probably haven't phrased the question very well. I'm not BAD at riding without stirrups, and I don't bounce around (aside from going from canter to trot, which I'm not the best at), so it's not that I'd be taking away the stirrups and swinging out of the reins, hammering down on her back.

But my idea was to focus on having a smooth seat without stirrups, which, as it became more natural to me, would also improve my balance in other areas where I AM less comfortable, so that when I attempt them, it's better.

 

[Clairlyagenius]

Tackling problems by just doing them over and over isn't really a path to success. We need to hone in on what the issue is and find ways to fix that, hence my recommendations.

I specialise in rider fit and horse posture/movement in my saddle fitting so tackle it from both directions. Working in tension isn't good for either of you, and I'm sure you know that bouncing around or pulling on the mouth isn't good, and working in poor patterns IS harmful.

We need to find the things we can improve easily, small things, build on those and bring those new skills and abilities to the things that are harder. If it's still a struggle then revisit, rethink, don't just keep bashing away

I get what you're saying, and I see where I have phrased this badly.

Basically I had a fall off my horse when jumping, which was down to my balance, so my idea was to improve my overall balance by getting rid of my stirrups, and practicing balance that way (which I can already ride pretty smoothly without stirrups in walk, trot and canter, although I still struggle with the canter-trot transition). The idea being that the better balance in that would transfer to other areas of riding. However, I have never ridden with a bareback pad, so I suppose I more meant, is it better to continue to do stirrupless with a saddle, and master that, or would a bareback pad offer the same pressure distribution, with more opportunity to focus on independent balance.

 

[Clairlyagenius]

I've also had many lessons without stirrups.

I find the suggestions that (paraphrased) you shouldn't bother to improve your riding, or that practising something is equal to just repeating incorrect riding, a bit odd.

In some ways learning to ride does involve a lot of repetition and 'hours in the saddle' in order to create the right muscle memory, surely. Who on earth was perfect at sitting the trot without stirrups the first time they tried it, straightaway? Most people would not have the funds to do *all* of that under instruction from someone, and on a well-schooled schoolmaster horse to boot.

If learning to improve your riding is made to sound soo challenging and soooo complex to get right that it's better not to do anything at all, most people will just do that and give up even trying, won't they? I'm sure that cannot be what's intended.

ETA I'm a bit grumpy this morning I think - it's the posts about finding specialised biomechanics instructors etc - all very well, how many of those are there in the country? - or lunge lessons on schoolmasters - there are quite a few past threads about the difficulty of finding those in the whole of the country, too.

I have to say I'm also a bit surprised, but I think it has to do with my phrasing as well a bit.

I'm not bad at riding stirrup less, and I have done a decent amount of lessons without them, but I'm trying to always improve when riding by myself as well. I would absolutely be interested in a biomechanics coach, and will see if I can find one, but I can't do that every time.

I was possibly a bit concussed when I posted, so it wasn't very well phrased The reason I am even asking about riding without stirrups to improve my seat is because I had a fall while jumping, so am looking at OTHER areas to improve balance, to help in areas like jumping, and minimise chances of that happening again!

While I would certainly like to have more lessons, private lessons, and specialised lessons, this post was more intended to ask about using this as a method to INDEPENDENTLY improve. I'm not bad at riding stirrup less, but I do have the occasional bounce where I lose balance, so I wanted to know peoples experiences without stirrups in a saddle vs. a bareback pad, which is better for shock absorption, and is it detrimental to ride for longer than 10 minutes or so without stirrups where my seat isn't bad, but certainly isn't perfect!

 

[Capalldonn]

As a beginner I was not allowed to use stirrups at all. I can't say it helped much with riding with stirrups. When I was eventually allowed to use them the learning started all over again.

I think saddles are designed to be used with stirrups and shouldn't be used without. But I fully support the idea of riding bareback or with a pad.

 

[emilylou]

I'm going to disagree with most people here and say just do it.

I used to ride for a living and would spend days riding without stirrups on multiple horses. I rode bareback loads too and still do, and have a wonderful seat, can sit pretty much anything, can jump bareback easily.

The spanish riding school have their pupils ride stirrupless for years.

BUT

I will caveat this to say, if you are overweight and unfit then you will really struggle. My baseline fitness when I started doing loads of tackless riding was really good, I trained in gymnastics and dance as well as horse riding and was very light. You need really decent stamina and good core control to do it well, so if you don't have this already then I'd work on these areas off the horse as well as on.

But nothing will be a substitute for just getting on with it and giving it a go. But use a neck strap, aim for 'relaxed' limbs and perfect posture and if fatigue kicks in then stop.

Its difficult to advise if this is truly a good next step for you without seeing you ride.

 

[Burnttoast]

You can work on your balance off a horse just as easily as on, without putting extra miles on the horse. It's a quality that will carry over to all your activities. Look at pilates/yoga, improving proprioception and core stability. Can you stand on one leg with your eyes closed - it's a basic indicator of reasonable balance? Very basic things like this will help. If your issue was when jumping I would interrogate your jumping position thoroughly. Look at recent photos/videos, ask yourself what needs to improve - do you tend to stand in your stirrups or get ahead of the movement? Are your stirrups short enough?

 

[Peglo]

I have a bareback pad (an CL one) and use it for hacking sometimes. My horse wasn’t sure about bareback but I do have a bony bum. She seemed happy in her pad and I love riding bareback so it seems to work for us.

I rode my first pony bareback the majority of the time and although I have a good seat I still lose stirrups on occasion doing simple things

 

[sbloom]

I understand why my comments seem odd, but we ask a lot of our horses, the more we can do off horse, or dial down our work to small progressions that can help us indirectly with the things we find harder, the less we impact on them. We just don't think that way, we tend to think we just need to practice what we're not good at, head on. The SRS had riders on the lunge for at least a year, those that lasted! We can do better and be cleverer.

Bareback pads cannot distribute pressure well. They trade stability and pressure distribution for flexibility - the horse will feel you intensely, and you should feel more feedback, and for this they are invaluable. They should only be used for short periods, especially if they're ones that DO allow stirrup use when you should limit using them.

It's impossible to fully answer your question without seeing/knowing much more. Why are you tipping/bouncing, where is it coming from? Is the horse moving as well as he could? It actually helps more than most people realise - if the horse is in at least good horizontal balance, able to move symmetrically, front end not dropped and blocking the hind end, then all this becomes easier.

Does your saddle help or slightly hinder you to sit correctly? The wrong saddle can cause ripples of dysfunction up and down the body - if the pelvis can't be supported in a comfortable neutral (gold standard) or at least not cause discomfort or excess tension to achieve a neutral pelvis, and does not allow that flexibility, then the waist starts to move, as do the knees, and you end up with ankles, shoulders, neck, hands all doing the wrong thing. Might be a very minor riding niggle that you struggle to fix or may be more obvious. It might be a big factor in your fall and any other struggles. Most rider fit is looking mostly at whether your bottom fits in the saddle, and knee on the flap, and not always that much more.

Bareback pads seldom allow our knee to drop really well, and that is part of achieving gold standard saddle fitting. We gain in other areas, but generally NOT in our alignment as a rider. If your saddle really doesn't help you, then it MIGHT be an improvement, impossible to say. There are simple "glorified" numnahs right through to those that can actually be fitted, and bear your pelvis, hip shape and the horse's ribcage shape (a big effect on the rider, especially as you're sat right ON that width in many of them) in mind to help you have a more functional seat.

At no point have I suggested that you stop trying to improve, or that a ridden biomechanics lesson is the only option. There are plenty of people who can help you off horse online, or even on horse. Peruse FB and Youtube for GOOD biomechanics coaches, if you have no budget, which I understand, and see if you can work through some exercises with them to see what is weak, then work on what is weak. Until you know why you bounce, taking away your stirrups is relatively ineffective and if it causes your horse to hollow more, or you to have to hold him more etc, then it's not helping you as a pairing.

A story to add to illustrate the principle - a rehab trainer I know had a horse in that was SO asymmetric and dysfunctional that she could only get "into" him enough on one rein to make any improvement, working on the other rein just created tension, which strengthens the dysfunction. She worked on the one good rein for a prolonger period. Now I would never recommend that to anyone, she's extremely skilled and experienced, but it's the basis of "perfect practice makes perfect". The development on that rein actually improved the other rein, directly and indirectly as whenever we improve a related skill/ability it will bring the others along with it.

Not easy, but food for thought.