This Hunting Act is bloody wierd.

[Ereiam_jh]

So I go out with my dogs to break the law. I deliberately flush out the deer with the dogs.

But still apparently that isn't proof.

I just don't get it. How hard do you have to try to commit a crime?

How about searching for deer which is also a crime. I go out and do that too. I go out with the dogs, look for the wild animals with them in order to flush them out. What more can I say.

In order to be hunting you have to intend to be hunting. What better proof could there possibly be of someone's intention that they openly state what it is.

The whole thing is bloody bizarre.

I wonder if a simpler explaination is that people don't want to prosecute the law because it is absurd.

Somehow I think there is a great big pink bunny rabbit hopping round the room blowing raspberries.

 

[jessica_daunted]

same as fox hunting the one think keeping us within the law is to make an effort to call of the dogd if we do were in the law, if not were outside the law and could be jailed for it.
What has the law and f***ing tony blair come to think up this pathetic hunt act.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Yes Jessica, it's amazing how completely and utterly stupid the people were who drew up the Hunting Act.

Possibly the only saving grace is that it's so damned funny!

 

[collie]

Law is supposed to be bizare and confusing that is how so few can control so many. It is best not to think to deeply about it because your head will explode. I have just carried on with what i have done most of my life [huntin shootin and fishin] said nothing to no one in particular. However what i can say is that most people in the country did'nt really care about the hunting debate in any case. It was just an easy vote winner for a discredited government which was led up the garden path by a bunch of loonies on the left. Infact the MSP [ Mike Watson] that got the anti hunting bill through the parliment in Scotland has just been let out of prison for arson [deliberately set fire to a hotel whilst pissed] if that does not tell you something about politicians and law makers nothing will.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Exactly, Corrie. The only rational respnse to a law like this is just to carry on regardless.

Once they pass such absurd law the concept of crime becomes so denatured that there is really nothing wrong with it at all. I've become a hardened criminal since the ban.

It's great, I love it!

 

[ROSSTHEJOCK]

Did'nt you cover this 'point' in an earlier post? Silly you eh?????

Anything new?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I'd be delighted if you could come up with a new original way of breaking the Hunting Act RSJ and as long as I didn't think it was cruel I'd do it straight away.

I suppose at the end of the day there is only so much one can say about harrassing furry animals with dogs.

I do my best.

 

[celt]

You come across as being a bit smug concerning the hunting act, you’re no martyr by simply going out to intentionally flush deer on you’re own private land, it’s a sure safe bet that no police officer is going to catch you, I would suggest that you would have an equal chance of winning the lottery.
If you want to openly boast if that’s what you are doing then why not inform the police force operations room of you’re intentions, of course giving them some notice to allow them the time to organise themselves and then do it.
I simply do not accept that any police force will overlook the hunting act, however I will accept that they will prioritise their duty time thus my suggestion of forewarning them of you’re intentions.
You could possibly address a letter to you’re chief constable stating you’re intention to intentionally hunt and flush deer with you’re dog’s. You would of course give them ample notice and details concerning the precise time, date and venue of the event.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I've done all that Celot. I've handed myself in to the police, I've told them of when and where I'm going to flush out and chase the deer. I've written to the police constable.

Write to him yourself if you like. I'll let you knbow when and where I'm next going to go out and search for deer to flush out.

nigel.arnold@devonandcornwall.pnn.police.uk

 

[Ereiam_jh]

To me this law insuults you as much as it does me. I'm surprised you don't see that.

 

[celt]

Please give me the full details regarding the police officer who you forewarned of you’re breaches of the law together with details of the police force that he serves, I will certainly address a letter to his chief constable requesting a full explanation as to this officers neglect of duty.

 

[celt]

I am somewhat concerned regarding you’re claims that you have forewarned the local police of you’re intended breaches of the hunting act and will be forwarding my complaint to the Chief of police. Could you please give me the details of the officer concerned and also you’re details, could you please include the details concerning the breaches that you refer to ie time/date/location etc of both you’re notification to the police and the actual deed, as the Chief of police will require all of the details to allow him to fully investigate the incident(s) that you refer to.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

nigel.arnold@devonandcornwall.pnn.police.uk he's the cheif constable

I am Giles Bradshaw from Rose Ash

Tell him from me that he is a fat ignorant to$$er fkcuwit

 

[PuddingandElla]

Jut have to say - i have been reading some of your posts and you really do seem to have rather large chip on your shoulder.
You are very happy to boast abuot breaking the law - as if it is something to be proud of.
I get fed up with people slating the police force - they do the best they can with the resources available and there job is just made harder by people like you.
If you want to go flush out deer - get on and do it - you do not have to come on here boasting about it.
To be honest i am fed up with the hunting act thing- but the fact is it is there and that's that so why don't we all get on with it. Moaning about it constantly is not going to change it.
I think everyone needs to agree to disagree regarding hunting you are not going to change peoples deep routed feelings about hunting.

 

[wurzel]

You ARE having a laugh aren't you?

The simple fact is the police around here are not interested and do not want to get involved. The police know exactly when hunts occur but (funny old thing), never turn up.

Any prosecutions that arise are private ones bought by vigilantes who roam Exmoor.

What other 'laws' are enforced by vigilantes in this country?

Luckily we have an increasing system of vigilante counter-measures.

Anyway, this is what the glorious donut-eaters of Somerset have to say about it under the freedom of information act.


(a) How many Avon and Somerset Constabulary police hours have been spent policing fox hunting activities since the Hunting Act was introduced?

These specific statistics are not individually recorded. Time spent policing the Hunting Act is encompassed within the normal policing duties on a day to day basis and would be virtually impossible to extract. Therefore it is not possible to provide this particular information. This information is not centrally recorded and is not readily available. In order to ascertain this information it would be necessary to individually examine every report made to the Avon and Somerset Constabulary regarding this matter, and then work out the time spent by any individual officer or member of police staff on the matter, including attending scenes and any subsequent investigative activity. It would also be necessary to distinguish between calls for fox hunting and other forms of hunting, and again this would require the individual examination of each report. The cost of providing you with the information is above the amount to which we are legally required to respond i.e. the cost of locating and retrieving the information exceeds the “appropriate level” as stated in the Freedom of Information (Fees and Appropriate Limit) Regulations 2004. It is estimated that it would cost at least £450 to comply with your request. In accordance with the Freedom of Information Act 2000, this letter acts as a Refusal Notice. I am not able to advise you on any way of reducing this cost as I am not aware of another way in which the information you seek could be obtained.

(b) How many people have been arrested for suspected breaches of the Hunting Act during that time?

3 persons have been arrested.

(c) How many people have been prosecuted under the Hunting Act in that time and how many files have been sent to the Crown Prosecution Service as a result of investigations by police during that time?

3 persons have been charged. 1 file has been sent to the Crown Prosecution Service, however individual investigating officers may have liaised with Crown Prosecution Service contacts at a local level.

(d) How many calls have been made by members of the public to Avon and Somerset Constabulary to make complaints about contraventions of the Act?

We have attempted to find out this information for you but it has not proved possible to provide you with a reliable answer to this question. Whilst the information is held in some format it is held within large amounts of other information, it is not possible to retrieve it easily in the format you have requested. Our Command and Control system is used to record individual calls to police made via the telephone system. Normally these would be received at one or other of our Communication facilities. A search of the system using search strings such as 'hunt' and 'hunting' has revealed a number of incidents, but a random sample of some has revealed that many do not relate in any way to the activities which are the subject of your request. For example, calls reported by or regarding persons with the name of Hunt would be retrieved in this way. In order to isolate calls made to Avon and Somerset Constabulary by members of the public to make complaints about contraventions of the Hunting Act 2004 would entail the examination of all these records of incidents. The cost of providing you with the information is above the amount to which we are legally required to respond i.e. the cost of locating and retrieving the information exceeds the “appropriate level” as stated in the Freedom of Information (Fees and Appropriate Limit) Regulations 2004. It is estimated that it would cost at least £450 to comply with your request. In accordance with the Freedom of Information Act 2000, this letter acts as a Refusal Notice. I am not able to advise you on any way of reducing this cost as I am not aware of another way in which the information you seek could be obtained.

(e) How many of these complaints have been investigated?

Avon and Somerset Constabulary have a duty to investigate complaints made to them which are within the remit of the Constabulary. However, not all investigations result in subsequent action regarding any person. I would refer you to the answers given at question ( c) and (d).


No one gives a toss !!!

 

[wurzel]

"You are very happy to boast abuot breaking the law - as if it is something to be proud of."

I am also particularly proud to break this law.

"I get fed up with people slating the police force - they do the best they can with the resources available and there job is just made harder by people like you."

No. Their job is made harder by pricks in government who spend pointless hours working out how to put an unenforceable law on to the shoulders of our brave boys in blue.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

"but the fact is it is there and that's that so why don't we all get on with it.

If every one had that attitude, we'd never even have made it onto land.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

No one gives a toss !!!

If only they could have given such a truthful and succinct answer to your questions Tom.

 

[PuddingandElla]

"The police know exactly when hunts occur but (funny old thing), never turn up" - have you ever thought that perhaps they might have better things to do - you lot seem to expect the police force to run round after you as if they have nothing else to do. The police have to be reactive - when someone rings in with a 999 emergency they have to attend - like rtc's - or would you rather they followed you lot around all day to make sure you stay within the law? Get real - there are more important issues in this world than hunting! Or would you rather when we rang in with a real emergency that they said to you - oh sorry all our officers are following the hunt today.
The fact is there are not enought police and that's not their fault they do the best they can.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I'm thinking that is pretty much my point.

Labour have made 3,000 extra criminal offenses, how the police be expected to enforce them all? Why on eart should anyone be expected to obey them all?

 

[PuddingandElla]

This is just going round in circles - the law is the law. You may as well say - well there are so many laws i'll just drive everywhere at top speed, i porpb wont get caught cause there are not enough police on the roads stopping people. You know the law is there so why not just obey it. Of course people break the law but no police force - no matter how many officers they had could possibly prosicute every single person who broke one of them.
What are they meant to do - say oh well i think we have too many lets just drop a few - like seatbelts? Speeding? Theft?
You are obiously a bright person so how about using you common sense a bit and acting like a adult. you know the law is there, you know what is right and wrong............. anyone can break the law - some get away with it but that doesn't mean that we should just say - oh well i prob wont get caught so i'll just get on with it.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Your rights were won by criminals prepared to break unjust laws.

It's nothing to do with not getting caught, I break the Hunting Act openly. The police have a duty to prosecute people who openly and deliberately floiut the law. However in the case of the Hunting Act they allow it.

And let's face it it's damned good fun.

"What are they meant to do - say oh well i think we have too many lets just drop a few" Drop the stupid ones. Do you even know what Labours 3,000 new criminal offences are? I don't, I couldn't give a t0ss.

They are creating a new crime every day.

 

[zizz]

" Get real - there are more important issues in this world than hunting!

Surely thats the point?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

That is indeed precisely the point.

Furthermore why make a law that is so badly drafted that people don't have to obey it? Why don't they replace it with a sensible one?

The truth is they totally stuffed it up and they insist on it remaining on the statute book because they cannot admit what miserable cretins they are.

Why should I have to respect the law when the authorities have such a cynically cavalier to it.

Respect is a two way street.

 

[PuddingandElla]

I undertand that the point is there is more to life than hunting - my point is - i take it we are all grown adults here, i hope. The fact is the law is there - any law can be broken if you so wish. It just annoys me when people go on about the police and they do nothing la la la. You know the law is there - most normal people just accept it and get on with it. There is no point harping on about it - its there and we can only do our best to not break it - that's my point.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I just find it offensive that I should be expected to shoot the deer my dogs flush if I an unable or unwilling to stop flushing them.

I suppose there are two attitudes, firstly that it is ok to kill things because the Governent requires it and the other that it is ok to refuse to senselessly kill and animal even if it against the law.

It would be especially ironinc if my analysis is right and they have just cocked up the law. In fact for a single animal to have to die just because of such incompetance.

I'm sorry but I just could not bring myself to shoot a deer just because the law said it needs to be done. I completely disagree that flushed out deer should be shot.

 

[wurzel]

I think you are missing the point.

I think murder is wrong.

I think rape is wrong.

I think assault is wrong.

I think bilking is wrong.

I think letting the deer on Exmoor become extinct is wrong.

I am a committed breaker of the hunting act.

 

[celt]

Where exactly in the hunting act does it say that any deer flushed by dogs needs to be shot?
You are toying with words here; you can pick holes in many of our laws and statutes, indeed that’s why amendments are commonplace.
The laws are there for a reason and even though you may not agree with the wording you should abide by the spirit of the law and for what it stands.
I agree with some of the comments made concerning the police, they are overwhelmed with work that needs constant prioritising. I would agree that the hunting act comes low down on their list of priorities but this is no reason why anyone should take advantage of the situation.
As I said previously, if you don’t agree with a piece of legislation then voice you’re concerns, ballot you’re local MP etc but don’t just say “I don’t agree with it so to hell with everyone”, that is the attitude of a spoilt brat who is used to getting his/her own way, take the mature attitude and go about things lawfully.

 

[wurzel]

"Where exactly in the hunting act does it say that any deer flushed by dogs needs to be shot?"


It says it exactly here. In Schedule 1.

(7) The fifth condition is that-

(a) reasonable steps are taken for the purpose of ensuring that as soon as possible after being found or flushed out the wild mammal is shot dead by a competent person, and
(b) in particular, each dog used in the stalking or flushing out is kept under sufficiently close control to ensure that it does not prevent or obstruct achievement of the objective in paragraph (a).

Why is that hard to understand?

"The laws are there for a reason and even though you may not agree with the wording you should abide by the spirit of the law and for what it stands."

This law has no reason and increases cruelty. For these reasons I break it.


"I would agree that the hunting act comes low down on their list of priorities but this is no reason why anyone should take advantage of the situation."

Its not taking advantage. They don't care. Some of them hunt.


"As I said previously, if you don’t agree with a piece of legislation then voice you’re concerns, ballot you’re local MP etc but don’t just say “I don’t agree with it so to hell with everyone”, that is the attitude of a spoilt brat who is used to getting his/her own way, take the mature attitude and go about things lawfully. "


My MP thinks it is as stupid as I do. The mature attitude is to control the fox and deer population as we always have done. It is what the National Park authority wants.

If it was not for lambing I would be breaking the law today in the Tarr steps area.

My income is based almost solely on lamb sales. It is very simple.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Where exactly in the hunting act does it say that any deer flushed by dogs needs to be shot?

I have four dogs and I walk them through the woods to flush deer. That's illegal. If I had two it would be illegal. If I had two but shot the deer it would be legal.

That is a silly law.

If the law is absurd it is ok to break it.

That's all I'm saying, I happen to be right. Annoying, somewhat boring, but right.