This industry NEEDS cleaning up.

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Strathmore Talloway

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I am writing this post to see what other people's opinions and experiences are and in all honesty to have a good old rant!

This industry NEEDS tidying up. I'm finding it near impossible to buy a new horse due to the amount of time wasters, bad horses and rogue sellers that there are out there.

Luckily for me I have only wasted hundreds on failed vettings but I know plenty who have spent thousands.

Would you buy a car without the owner providing an MOT certificate? Shoot me if I'm wrong for saying this but shouldn't the buyer be responsible for providing a 2 stage vetting and the buyer pay for it to be 5 star if they desire? This would avoid sellers having to spend their whole budget on vettings and multiple buyers purchasing vettings on the same horse.


Opinions? Experiences?
 
Strathmore Talloway said:
I am writing this post to see what other people's opinions and experiences are and in all honesty to have a good old rant!

This industry NEEDS tidying up. I'm finding it near impossible to buy a new horse due to the amount of time wasters, bad horses and rogue sellers that there are out there.

Luckily for me I have only wasted hundreds on failed vettings but I know plenty who have spent thousands.

Would you buy a car without the owner providing an MOT certificate? Shoot me if I'm wrong for saying this but shouldn't the buyer be responsible for providing a 2 stage vetting and the buyer pay for it to be 5 star if they desire? This would avoid sellers having to spend their whole budget on vettings and multiple buyers purchasing vettings on the same horse.


Opinions? Experiences?
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Sorry, but I disagree. I just bought a horse and paid an extra £150 for my own vet to drive to the seller and do the vetting rather than use a vet I didn't know. And that was with a private sale and a glowing Pony Club DC reference from a DC that is good friends with our DC. I wouldn't be particularly interested in them providing a 2 stage vet cert. The vetting cost is pretty insignificant compared with the cost of buying/keeping a horse. Just my opinion though. :)
 
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I would not want the buyer to do a vetting as I would want my own vet or an independent vet (if the horse was too far for my vet to travel) to do it. Wouldnt trust one done by the owner!

Also I'm not convinced as to the value of 2* vettings, I would want the full shabang and blood tests or nothing at all.
 
Well sorry but if you spend your entire budget on vettings then can you honestly afford a new horse - what happens if its saddle doesnt fit or the rugs you have?
 
That's an interesting idea. Seller's having to provide a two stage vetting for everything? I'd have been happy to do that when I sold my grey horse. There must be a reason why its an unworkable idea.
 
Its buyer beware in any industry really, thats why you arm your self with as much knowledge as possible and take some one else along before you get it vetted.
 
There is a very good thread on here somewhere by MrsB or Mrs B (I know there are two of you, and I get muddled!) called 'I think I've been had' or something like that, and if I remember correctly, it is about using a vet suggested by the seller, which unfortunately for Mrs B/MrsB turned out to be a farce... I personally would always go independent.
 
Well it is common practice in Holland to have your horse 2 star vetted prior to putting it up for sale.

Then if you want to pay for the extra 5 star and x-rays you do so at your cost, most people do as they want their own vet to do the checks.

If there is now pre purchase vetting the seller takes the cost if the horse fails the vetting up to the cost of a two star.

This is how I still own my (happily now I may add!) 6 year old who we discoverd had chronic side bones at his pre sale advertisment vetting.

Also normal practice for the insurance to be signed over to the new owner at the point of sale so the horse has continuity of cover.
 
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Deffo wouldn't want the seller getting and paying for the vet, even if it is a 2 stage.. have heard horror stories of fake vets, bribed vets and all sorts! I used an independent, well known vet for my boy, doing a 5* vetting when buying from a dealer with a good rep. Would definitely do it that way again, as I haven't looked back since. Agreed, there are a ridiculous amount of dodgy dealers, and time wasters. Comes with most thriving industries, it seems :( xx
 
No dont agree.

I wouldnt trust a vetting cert unless it was done for me at my request by the vet I had asked to vet the horse.
 
Gingerwitch said:
Well sorry but if you spend your entire budget on vettings then can you honestly afford a new horse - what happens if its saddle doesnt fit or the rugs you have?
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I spent nearly £1000 in fuel, two failed vettings then the passed vetting and an unreturned deposit from one of the failed vettings last time I bought a horse. Anything that can sway the balance a bit towards sellers, I'm all for it.
 
I see the OP's point but from a different direction. All of the horses we have in to produce who will be for sale are 5 stage vetted by specialist equine vets (mostly current or previous international team vets) in Ireland before I buy them. I do this so that I can be as sure as it is possible to be that the horse I will show a purchaser is problem free and sound. Why would I want it to be any other way? The subsequent purchaser can of course have any additional vetting that they wish and these have always been entirely straightforward.
 
a vetting certificate is only valid for the day and time of vetting! (either a 2 or a 5 stage vetting!) they are living breathing animals that can succumb to anything minutes after a vetting. and i would prefer to use my own choice of vets not the sellars. though the new BEVA guidelines for vetting and disclosure of medical history should iron out problems.
 
If I was selling my horse and had to have a vetting certificate for a 2 stage (£100 approximate) I would straight away add that to the sale price. If for example I put her in H&H for two weeks and didn't sell her the first week people the second week would probably want an up to date certificate (a lot can happen in a week) so another vetting, another £100+. Suddenly your £3k horse becomes £3,500.
A vetting is like an mot, just a record of what's found on a particular day.
 
I disagree. Apart from the fact people prefer to choose the vet, a vetting is only valid for when its done. So what happens when an honest sellers horse gets an unnoticed problem after vetting. Unfortunately vetting costs go with buying.
 
Strathmore Talloway said:
At least if you know the horse was clear on a vetting three weeks ago it's probably worth travelling to see....
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Really? I had a youngster go from being seen by the vet in the morning and declared fine (although I deeply suspected otherwise) to PTS 3 hours later :rolleyes: A lot can happen in a very short space of time.
 
I actually think it is a good idea not because I would be happy to trust a vetting provided by a seller but because by having to spend money before selling vendors are showing commitment to selling the horse. They would also know if there was anything wrong and therefore if a buyer says they will be having a further vetting this may make them disclose any known issues. It's not going to stop the people who sell hoping the buyer won't want a vetting but hopefully it will draw out some people who have a bit of a conscience.

It would stlll be very much buyer beware and personally I would still get a vetting from a trusted vet but I think it may help a bit.
 
Jo_x said:
I would not want the buyer to do a vetting as I would want my own vet or an independent vet (if the horse was too far for my vet to travel) to do it. Wouldnt trust one done by the owner!

Also I'm not convinced as to the value of 2* vettings, I would want the full shabang and blood tests or nothing at all.
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VioletStripe said:
Deffo wouldn't want the seller getting and paying for the vet, even if it is a 2 stage.. have heard horror stories of fake vets, bribed vets and all sorts!
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Two very valid points of view. I would want a horse vetted by someone I knew I cold trust, and at the point of prospective purchase, not much earlier by an unknown party.
 
OP - you can get a car with a MOT certificate which could have something very wrong with it! It only covers the basic road safety checks - it doesn't cover the entire engine. Similar to a two stage vetting - looks ok on the outside, but who knows what's going on inside. Although the same could be said for a five stage vetting. A horse could pass a 5 stage vetting on one day and fail the next - it is only an image of what is seen on that particular day although bloods and x-rays are always going to be useful. So no, I don't think the seller should be responsible for any stage of vetting the horse. And as someone else has already said - the vetting would only be added onto the price of the horse anyway.
 
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Flame_ said:
I spent nearly £1000 in fuel, two failed vettings then the passed vetting and an unreturned deposit from one of the failed vettings last time I bought a horse. Anything that can sway the balance a bit towards sellers, I'm all for it.
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Exactly and there is probably over close on £2000 of a budget gone straight away. Too often am I travelling off to view a horse that is not at all as described once i get there, spending money on vettings then for the owner to say "well i knew it wouldnt pass anyway"...(why didnt you say that before i shelled out for a vetting!?).... its very frustrating, i too have spent probably close on £500 on wasted journeys to view horses.

I think gingerwitch's comment is VERY unfair about not being able to afford a horse in the first place if you dont want to spend all your money on failed vettings and wasted journeys.

I can quite easily afford to keep a horse after purchase and I have a set lump sum available for the initial purchase of the horse but if I use the whole lump sum on vettings and travel etc then i have to start again saving another lump sum for initial purchase.
 
Holly Hocks said:
OP - you can't get a car with a MOT certificate which could have something very wrong with it! It only covers the basic road safety checks - it doesn't cover the entire engine. Similar to a two stage vetting - looks ok on the outside, but who knows what's going on inside. Although the same could be said for a five stage vetting. A horse could pass a 5 stage vetting on one day and fail the next - it is only an image of what is seen on that particular day although bloods and x-rays are always going to be useful. So no, I don't think the seller should be responsible for any stage of vetting the horse. And as someone else has already said - the vetting would only be added onto the price of the horse anyway.
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I am not so naive to think that a 2 or 5 stage vetting completely clears a horse I am simply trying to say that at least it would filter SOME of the really bad stuff out.
 
Ok so I see that most people would like to use their own vets etc and I completely understand that. Maybe sellers should pay the vetting if the horse fails, then perhaps that would disuade sellers who have known problems with their horse from "dressing them up" and selling them as something that they are not?- (which in my opinion is unfair on both the horse and the buyer). I dont know Im just brainstorming what could be done to clean the industry up. I know there are some messy industries out there but In my experience this is one of the worst making it impossible to trust ANYONE and very hard to purchase coming from a buyers point of view.
 
No, I disagree with cars it's still buyer beware. I'd always take my OH (mechanic) to view a car even if it was MOT'd just this month. You can MOT a car and change all the tyres for naff ones, you can drive over a speed bump and muck up the suspension, or you can have a car pass an MOT but ignore the fact the oil light has come on the next day, or crash into a bollard and have half the bodywork hanging on by a thread. Like a car with an MOT a horse will only pass a vetting on the day - so in lieu of specialist vet knowledge in my family I'd always get a horse vetted if it cost more money than I was prepared to throw away.
 
Strathmore Talloway said:
I am not so naive to think that a 2 or 5 stage vetting completely clears a horse I am simply trying to say that at least it would filter SOME of the really bad stuff out.
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Oh I do understand what you're saying, totally - I had a similar experience last year after going to see a horse which I was told hacked out by itself etc yet when I got there wouldn't leave the yard and started rearing and napping - badly. Seller's reaction was "Oh it hasn't done that before" (I bet it hasn't ;)) I know it's different to a vetting, but it was still a time-waster - an hour and a half each way to view it didn't put me in the best mood!
But I still don't think that it's the seller's responsibility to get a horse vetted. Something which might be an idea is whilst speaking initially to the seller, ask which vet they have used for the horse. Then ask the seller if they would give permission for you to speak to that vet directly to find out what they have treated the horse for in the past. Puts seller on the back foot - if they don't want you to speak to the vet, they may well be hiding something, but if they give you permission, then it sort of indicates that horse might be ok. Nothing ventured, nothing gained....
 
Whoever posted saying what would you do if you bought a saddle that didnt fit... Im sorry but this is a little different dont you think?

1. I would have the saddle professionally fitted

2. Its easier to sell on again if it didnt fit and purchase one that did



3. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A LIVE ANIMAL HERE NOT A PIECE OF MATERIAL??

Its not as straight forward when emotions and the livelihood of an animal are involved compared to buying a piece of material that doesnt fit that can be binned or sold on again to someone who it would fit to regain the money you paid for it.



In all honesty i dont really get your point or its relvance
 
Sorry can't quote on phone - OP re your last quote about seller paying if horse fails would never work. Can you imagine you put your horse up for sale, in good faith and I come along and say yep great, I'll have a 5 stage and bloods then horse fails. How do you differentiate between me being a genuine buyer or a Sunday afternoon tyre kicker ? You are Lao then left with a bloomin big vetting bill on top of any vet bills relating to the reason for the horse failing.
In theory it sounds a good idea but in reality IMO it wouldn't work.
 
Holly Hocks said:
Oh I do understand what you're saying, totally - I had a similar experience last year after going to see a horse which I was told hacked out by itself etc yet when I got there wouldn't leave the yard and started rearing and napping - badly. Seller's reaction was "Oh it hasn't done that before" (I bet it hasn't ;)) I know it's different to a vetting, but it was still a time-waster - an hour and a half each way to view it didn't put me in the best mood!
But I still don't think that it's the seller's responsibility to get a horse vetted. Something which might be an idea is whilst speaking initially to the seller, ask which vet they have used for the horse. Then ask the seller if they would give permission for you to speak to that vet directly to find out what they have treated the horse for in the past. Puts seller on the back foot - if they don't want you to speak to the vet, they may well be hiding something, but if they give you permission, then it sort of indicates that horse might be ok. Nothing ventured, nothing gained....
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Thankyou Holly some very good advice! I hadnt even thought of that...

If the seller has nothing to hide then you woiuld think they wouldnt have a problem with you speaking to their vet.
x
 
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