This industry NEEDS cleaning up.

Getting permission to speak to the seller's vet about the horse's history is a good idea with a horse who has been in a private home for some time but wouldn't help you with a dealer who has a quick turnover of horses.

Unfortunately it really is a terrible case of buyer beware and having seen the horror stories on here about it all I think I'd be willing to pay my trusted vet whatever he'd want to travel to vet box horse I'm considering in the future. Although I must admit, right now I'd rather breed from my current mare than buy another!

So frustrating really as when I sold my daughter's pony last year I was completely honest about the fact that she bucks off the lead rein and had suffered from laminitis, and I sold her for a pittance despite her being actually a perfect lead rein and jumping pony 9 times out of 10. A shame her previous owners hadn't been so honest with me!
 
Thankyou for everyones reples it is very interesting to see different peoples points of view.

Perhaps there is no way of filtering which horses are going to be worth travelling to see and which will be a wasted journey until you actually get there.

Any honest sellers out there... I am looking for a horse!!! lol
 
If I were a dodgy seller, I'd have no problem with a buyer ringing up my vet - I often use one practice for routine stuff and one practice for complicated stuff, I'd just get them to ring the one who deals with the routine stuff, to them the horse has a perfect history.

Can you see the problem?
 
Flame_ said:
If I were a dodgy seller, I'd have no problem with a buyer ringing up my vet - I often use one practice for routine stuff and one practice for complicated stuff, I'd just get them to ring the one who deals with the routine stuff, to them the horse has a perfect history.

Can you see the problem?
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Yes, but it would be unusual for a private seller who has had the horse for a while to do this - admittedly not much point in doing it if it's a dealer...
 
What about this scenario:

Horse bought in Ireland to sell on. Passed 5 stage vetting.

2 months later vetted by prospective buyer. Completed vetting, passed all flexion tests, however buyer was advised not to buy due to lesion on eye that may or may not at some indeterminate point in the near or distant future may turn into uveitis.

Got our own (very good) vet to look at eye. Determined to be an old scratch and nothing to worry about. Cracked on with selling horse.

Was vetted again by another buyer a week later. This was a NICE horse! Determined to be lame behind. Vet had already looked in eyes and continued with vetting without comment. At this point we were about to kill ourselves.

Two days later vetted again by yet another buyer. Passed with flying colours. Eye never mentioned. Leg never mentioned. Incidently this was not our vet, in fact we can't stand this vet and he can't stand us!

I don't know what to think any more, it seems like luck of the draw with vettings!
 
Sadly I drove 100's miles looking for a horse, 16.2's were 14.1. Clean limbed were cow hodges or over at the knee. Good breeding seemed to skip the generation I was looking at :) one I liked I said to the woman I'll think about and ring you tomorrow, she said someone was coming at 8am to look at it the next day. Synical me thought yeah right - rang her at 9am to arrange a second view and she said the 8am people had left a deposit !
I rang a dealer about a horse I liked and they kept on about another horse which in the end I said I'd look at just to shut her up and then intended to look at her, say thanks but no thanks now where's the one I originally rang about - yep I bought the one they suggested I look at :)
The perfect horse for you will turn up and it will be worth the wait. Good luck :)
 
If one wants to purchase a "perfect" horse one can expect quite a few failed vettings and money down the drain. Beyond the vetting fact, I never understand why people lie about what they have.

Personally I don't do vettings on my horses beforehand. Because it won't stand up and my vet could be in the firing line, conflict of interest. Not because I'm trying to hide something. But if you want previous information, you can have everything. Vets these days near enough always find something, again for protection. Can't blame them.

As far as cars, here in Ireland lots of vehicles are sold without NCT. You get them cheaper don't you! Still the same buyer beware!

Terri
 
IMO a vetting done by the seller is not worth anything at all it's a snapshot of thehorses condition on that day so by the time I see the horse it means only that a vet thought the horse was ok on such and such a date.
I know of a horse who was sold vetted ( five stage) went to its new home almost at once he had to be sold though no fault of his own the purchaser almost did not bother vetting as she had a very recent cert from a prestigious equine vet only a month or so before.
But the horse was expensive so she had a vetting it had contracted a virus it had damaged it's heart it could have killed anyone riding it no ones fault just bad luck but a that's why you find the horse THEN get it vetted.
BF is a equine vet her pass rate is around fifty per cent.
 
Have to say that 'touch wood' my horse buying experience has only ever been positive.

I absolutely wouldn't want the seller to be responsible for vettings, because as we know they are only relevant on the day their done. Plus I would want a vet of my choice doing the examination.

Seems to me that we can do a lot to protect ourselves when buying horses - and in most case applying common sense in our approach and dealings with sellers seems to be the most obvious thing to do.
 
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Flame_ said:
That's an interesting idea. Seller's having to provide a two stage vetting for everything? I'd have been happy to do that when I sold my grey horse. There must be a reason why its an unworkable idea.
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Main reason for selling is due to financial constraints, also a local vet has never passed any horse older than 16!
If a horse was intermittently lame, then the vendor would only vet it on good days, and/or use bute!
 
I think the simple answer is better use of the passport system.
It should be much harder for new duplicate passports to be issued, easier to police now with microchips. Vets should be required to record health checks, illnesses, surgery etc, in the passport.
Should be a section for each owner to record comments
That way at least you would have a better idea of what you were taking on.
If the horse had a new passport, you would have reason to suspect a problem.
If you sell a horse cheaply for whatever reason, you can record in the passport why, eg sold as a companion as psychopathic nut job with navicular.
Yes there are all sorts of problems but with a bit of thrashing out could really work.
How nice would it be a well to know all those little quirks and idiosyncrasies from old owners as well, even if they don't bother you,just save you a lot of time and money finding out . For example my old mare was slightly mad and after a lot of facing about I found she really went well in a myler combination. I sold her cheaply and honestly, with all her tack as she was difficult but ideal for a teenager. Two years after she was sold on for a lot more money,with no tack, as a confidence giver for a nervous adult. Obviously that didn't work out and by pure chance she was loaned to a teenage friend of my son. We then said try a myler and bingo they had a happier horse. I could ave put in the passport, can be feisty and likes a myler bit, great for jumping and endurance but not a novice ride and poor person that paid a lot of money for a completely unsuitable horse wouldn't have and mare would have been happier.
 
Strathmore Talloway said:
Ok so I see that most people would like to use their own vets etc and I completely understand that. Maybe sellers should pay the vetting if the horse fails, then perhaps that would disuade sellers who have known problems with their horse from "dressing them up" and selling them as something that they are not?- (which in my opinion is unfair on both the horse and the buyer). I dont know Im just brainstorming what could be done to clean the industry up. I know there are some messy industries out there but In my experience this is one of the worst making it impossible to trust ANYONE and very hard to purchase coming from a buyers point of view.
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This is similar to what a friend worked into their deal when they travelled a fair distance and bought a horse, they bargained into the deal that they would pay £X if the horse passed the vetting, but seller would pay for vetting if it failed, both parties agreed and horse passed..........
 
TBH, there are more reasons when you go see a horse that you wouldn't buy it, and nothing to do with the vetting, I can't tell you how many horses we've been to see in the past where we got nowhere near the vetting stage as horse was totally unsuitable for us, despite sounding perfect, a vetting will not make the horse more suitable for your needs, no use it being sound if you can't ride one side of it :rolleyes:

We used to go and see horses pre internet days, when the ad was a text only ad in the local paper, I honestly don't know how people are still travelling so much with the use of internet, photos and vids. If I was viewing horses now, I'd pretty much know what I was getting before I even got my car keys out!

And you mention in your OP 'bad horses'. Really? Again with advent of online videos you really should get a good idea of the horse before you go, sadly there are just as many bad riders out there as there are 'bad' horses ;)
 
amymay said:
Seems to me that we can do a lot to protect ourselves when buying horses - and in most case applying common sense in our approach and dealings with sellers seems to be the most obvious thing to do.
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this!! people do need to take responsibility for their own actions, if you know that the horse world is full of crooks and dodgy dealers trying to pull the wool over your eyes then take a bit more care about what you spend your hard earned cash on;)
i think the problems arise because we think with our hearts when it comes to horses rather than our heads, easily done and we're all guilty to some extent i'm sure. if we applied the same wariness we do when buying horses as most of us do when buying a car or a house i think there would be less opportunities for the dodgy dealers and crooks.
eta: there will always be those who do get caught out, what i think needs to be changed is the way those people are dealt with by the law, it should be easier for buyers to take the legal route over a mis-sold horse.
 
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That's why im sooo glad im getting ned. I've known him for 5 years-ish and i know everything i need to about him. I wont have to go through vetting or trying him out. Since this will be my first ever purchase, i'm so pleased i wont have to go through that stress!
 
Stencilface said:
We used to go and see horses pre internet days, when the ad was a text only ad in the local paper, I honestly don't know how people are still travelling so much with the use of internet, photos and vids. If I was viewing horses now, I'd pretty much know what I was getting before I even got my car keys out!
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I was just thinking exactly this.

When I got my old mare (30 years ago), we had nothing but the half inch write up in the H&H, not even a photo to go by. We went to see quite a few but never more than an hour or so away.

12 years ago I bought our Sec A - he was the third I went to see having seen some photos and had a long conversation with the vendor.

I bought our 13'2" nearly two years ago and had a pony club reference, photos, competition results - he was the only pony we went to see.

And most recently I have bought a horse for which I had seen several videos, photos and pony club reference before I went to see him - other than one visit to a reputable dealer where the horses were good but too green for us so we didn't even ride any, he was the only horse we tried.

All horses passed the full vetting that was available at the time. We had one failed vetting before finding my mare, so not a bad average.

ETA I am an accountant by profession, so probably fairly risk averse, and do try not to fall in love with a horse until it is safely at home. :)
 
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Ha, pre internet days - first pony (23 years ago) 10 word ad in paper, only pony seen, second pony, advertised in paper at a dealers, only pony viewed. First horse, went ot see about 5 admittedly, but all within half an hour to an hour or so.

Current horse, 8 years ago, same paper (Yorkshire post), only text ad, just saw him - I am either lucky or just not picky! :D :D
 
Couple of points -

1) Private horse selling is NOT an industry
2) The idea of a vetting is to see if the horse is fit for the purpose you are buying it for. So if I was a seller and had my horse "vetted" as a light hack -which it passed, but you wanted to use it as an eventer - it would fail. Extreme differences I know (and very unlikely to happen) but you get my point?
 
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